Another Shooting

[seventhson]

Did they not get the "Don't use the words Lynch Mob" memo? I'm moving outta the way so everyone who lambasted me for using that EXACT verbage can get to the writer of this article. But I'm also predicting a quantity of "but that's different" posts.

really? congrats, you've made my ignore list for the absence of any kind of critical thinking ability and your clear attempts at throwing out red herrings.

 

[EBodious]

i'm just gonna throw out there that i know that when i am stressed and/or talking fast sometimes my brain tells my mouth to say two different things at the same time. it is quite possible that what zimmerman said was not a specific word that can be determined. i have not listened to the tapes, i don't really want to at this point. so take my thought here with a grain of salt, but he may have meant to say a couple of different slurs and what came out was a mixture.

If it is possible, I think the investigating officer should be indicted for some charge related to appears to me to be a conspiracy to suppress evidence and deny justice, and the administration of the Sanford PD needs to be fired.

yeah, i don't really want to be right about this, but it is hard for me to see how anything as conclusive as 'beyond a shadow of a doubt' is gonna be established in regards to zimmerman. they may well find guilt in one or more sanford cops, but at this point that would not feel much like justice. guilty until proven innocent is a very important principle, but here it is going to be dubious at best.

so sad

 

[onosson]

you are ASSUMING he doesn't see the difference. I think he's smart enough to see the difference.

I guess I am trying to give the benefit of the doubt that he means what he says, rather than assuming.

Sometimes, I'm not sure which is worse!

 

[tZer]

...it is quite possible that what zimmerman said was not a specific word that can be determined. i have not listened to the tapes, i don't really want to at this point. so take my thought here with a grain of salt, but he may have meant to say a couple of different slurs and what came out was a mixture.

It's also likely that he realized 'mid-word' that he was being recorded and 'last minute censored himself' - resulting in the dubious pronunciation.

I remember like it was yesterday being in jr. high gym class and my friend, Tramp, was about to unleash the F-bomb when the teacher walked in and he instantly converted to 'Fuuuget you, man!" - This was 1981 folks - long before Mr. Green made it so fashionable.

And the idea of guilty before innocent - ironic for Zimmerman, huh?

And still, as for the Police... just boo. No excuses. That's just utterly unacceptable and unjustifiable. It's one thing to catch a challenging case of "he said, he... oh, wait, he's dead" - it's another to become part of the reason it's so complicated and potentially the reason that justice cannot be done.

No excuse. There are a lot of people who should be utterly ashamed of themselves as professionals and as human beings in that department.

 

[onosson]

i'm just gonna throw out there that i know that when i am stressed and/or talking fast sometimes my brain tells my mouth to say two different things at the same time. it is quite possible that what zimmerman said was not a specific word that can be determined. i have not listened to the tapes, i don't really want to at this point. so take my thought here with a grain of salt, but he may have meant to say a couple of different slurs and what came out was a mixture.

This is a good point, and it would be unfortunate if an entire case were to hang on a single word, as oftentimes what we actually speak can not be pinned down so categorically.

 

[EBodious]

And the idea of guilty before innocent - ironic for Zimmerman, huh?

And still, as for the Police... just boo. No excuses. That's just utterly unacceptable and unjustifiable. It's one thing to catch a challenging case of "he said, he... oh, wait, he's dead" - it's another to become part of the reason it's so complicated and potentially the reason that justice cannot be done.

No excuse. There are a lot of people who should be utterly ashamed of themselves as professionals and as human beings in that department.

agreed.

guilty until proven innocent is a very important principle, but here it is going to be dubious at best.

whoa! freudian slip much?

 

[Phil Smith]

Here's an interesting piece concerning the "stand your ground" law:

George Zimmerman Unprotected By Self-Defense Law in Trayvon Martin Killing, Florida Lawmakers Say

George Zimmerman Unprotected By Self-Defense Law in Trayvon Martin Killing, Florida Lawmakers Say

Dennis Baxley, a Republican state representative and co-author of the 2005 self-defense law, said Zimmerman negated his ability to claim immunity under the law by chasing Martin.

"This law is for innocent, law-abiding citizens who are under attack by a perpetrator," Baxley told The Huffington Post. "Anyone who is out pursuing and confronting people is not protected by this statute."

"I think they need to go back and read the statute," Baxley said, referring to the Sanford Police Department.

Former Republican State Sen. Durell Peadon, another co-author of the law, said Zimmerman "has no protection under my law."

"They need to prosecute whoever shot the kid," Peadon told the Miami Herald on Tuesday.

 

[tZer]

"I think they need to go back and read the statute," Baxley said, referring to the Sanford Police Department.

...or the Sanford Police could just keep letting whomever happens to still be alive when they arrive teach them about the law and how to do their job...

 

[Ben B]

I hear now that Florida Governor Scott has appointed a commission to study the case. This has gotten ridiculous, this case needed police work, not a goverment commission that will probably take a year to write a report that leads to nothing. In Florida, shootings are pretty doggone common. This should have been handled long ago. The fact that no one official with the ability have Zimmerman arrested has done so is a shame and an embarrasment to fair minded people in Florida.

The initial police work was so bad that I think it is fair to ask if there was a conspiracy to suppress evidence. Zimmerman was was not drug tested although Martin was. His bloody shirt was not taken for evidence. There was no ballistics work done on his gun (good luck finding it now.) No background check was done on Zimmerman although one was done on Martin. Apparently some witnesses were ignored, and at least one witness was told by the officer to change her statement to fit the scenario that officer felt should fit. Finally, the police did not check the cell phone records of Martin.

I think it is fair to say that there was no investigation at all.
The total indifference to the killing of Trayvon Martin is actually more upsetting to me than his killing. Individual racism or paranoia is terrible, but realistically, no one can ever control every biased or possibly demented person. The fact that the local police were so biased that they only sought information that would justify the shooting instead of trying to honestly assess the situation is something that no one deserves, at least no one with human decency.

If it is possible, I think the investigating officer should be indicted for some charge related to appears to me to be a conspiracy to suppress evidence and deny justice, and the administration of the Sanford PD needs to be fired.

I agree completely.

 

[Deleted member 92857]

Zimmerman actually lynched someone.

I THINK he did too. But he hasn't been convicted in court yet. But he has by you. And most of the crowd. And Talkbass. And maybe by me too.

Where are you going to find a jury for his trial? And if some vigilante arises and takes Zimmerman out (Not too terribly much of a stretch, I'd almost place a bet on it at this point) are you OK with that? Scroll back a page or two, and if it hasn't been deleted there was a post wishing for exactly that. If a TalkBasser lost his conscience and compass in this forum, what about someone in the middle of a chanting angry crowd?

I would have served myself far better to point out that there are many studies that show that individuals tend to lose their individuality, good judgement, and conscience in a crowd and do things that they normally wouldn't do, and not used the term lynch mob. I was amused that the term was so offensive that I was told the very mention of it was offensive and how could I be so stupid, and a day later someone is citing an article with the term. I guess it's one of those terms that some people can use and some people cant.

 

[Ben B]

I am with you here.

I agree that the 'cleaned up' audio seems to have a 'k' sound at the front that I couldn't hear before. The vowel sound in the middle is still unusual - still not a definitive 'oo', but it's not at 'uh' sounding as it used to be... It sounds MORE like he said 'coons' - but it's still not definitive to my ears.

I don't think you could base a case against him on that bit of sketchy audio - but I do think the animosity Zimmerman has for Trayvon is very clear and the fact that he was out to stop him from committing the imaginary crimes he manufactured in his delusional mind is equally clear.

Yes, the contempt Zimmerman had for Trayvon is pretty clear even if he didn't say "coons". But it did sound like "coons" or something similar--definitely not "punks".

 

[Munjibunga]

You're all going to like this. My main man Geraldo has it figured out for us.

 

[Deleted member 92857]

really? congrats, you've made my ignore list for the absence of any kind of critical thinking ability and your clear attempts at throwing out red herrings.

Thanks for the inspiration for my new sig.

 

[Phil Smith]

You're all going to like this. My main man Geraldo has it figured out for us.

Got to get those ratings up.

 

[Dr_Funkdamental]

I THINK he did too. But he hasn't been convicted in court yet. But he has by you. And most of the crowd. And Talkbass. And maybe by me too.

Where are you going to find a jury for his trial? And if some vigilante arises and takes Zimmerman out (Not too terribly much of a stretch, I'd almost place a bet on it at this point) are you OK with that? Scroll back a page or two, and if it hasn't been deleted there was a post wishing for exactly that. If a TalkBasser lost his conscience and compass in this forum, what about someone in the middle of a chanting angry crowd?

I would have served myself far better to point out that there are many studies that show that individuals tend to lose their individuality, good judgement, and conscience in a crowd and do things that they normally wouldn't do, and not used the term lynch mob. I was amused that the term was so offensive that I was told the very mention of it was offensive and how could I be so stupid, and a day later someone is citing an article with the term. I guess it's one of those terms that some people can use and some people cant.

Well to be honest, many of those that did it back in the 60's werent convicted either, but you agreed that the term applied to them so...

In this case its actually true. Yet you cant even acknowledge that your assumptions about what you said and the article being the same are wrong. Im not surprised though.

 

[nutdog]

You're all going to like this. My main man Geraldo has it figured out for us.

 

[seventhson]

Well to be honest, many of those that did it back in the 60's werent convicted either, but you agreed that the term applied to them so...

In this case its actually true. Yet you cant even acknowledge that your assumptions about what you said and the article being the same are wrong. Im not surprised though.

wowzers. smokin toaster looks to curry sympathy for GZ because of the possible commission of thought crimes.

 

[electracoyote]

Here's an interesting piece concerning the "stand your ground" law:

George Zimmerman Unprotected By Self-Defense Law in Trayvon Martin Killing, Florida Lawmakers Say

This speaks volumes. It's pretty hard to claim self-defense when you stalk someone and chase them down, when you've got 60 pounds on the kid and a hand gun, and when you have a history of paranoid schizophrenic behavior toward strangers in your neighborhood.

We call it "Make My Day" in Colorado, but again, it is meant to protect people who are clearly defending themselves and their homes. I believe most of these laws have this as their basis.

The defense should be interesting, but unfortunately we have to peel away the layers of law enforcement ineptitude first.

 

[Deleted member 92857]

Well to be honest, many of those that did it back in the 60's werent convicted either, but you agreed that the term applied to them so...

In this case its actually true. Yet you cant even acknowledge that your assumptions about what you said and the article being the same are wrong. Im not surprised though.

I wasn't addressing the entire article, only two words; one phrase. I was called out for the use of the phrase, and how insensitive it made me. Skins can be very thick one moment, and very thin the next. The term lynch means "a form of extralegal judgment and punishment, usually by killing"

Lynch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A Talkbasser has spoken of killing Zimmerman. Do you really think the crowdS that are angry and screaming don't contain people who feel the same?

 

[Phil Smith]

I THINK he did too. But he hasn't been convicted in court yet. But he has by you. And most of the crowd. And Talkbass. And maybe by me too.

Where are you going to find a jury for his trial? And if some vigilante arises and takes Zimmerman out (Not too terribly much of a stretch, I'd almost place a bet on it at this point) are you OK with that? Scroll back a page or two, and if it hasn't been deleted there was a post wishing for exactly that. If a TalkBasser lost his conscience and compass in this forum, what about someone in the middle of a chanting angry crowd?

I would have served myself far better to point out that there are many studies that show that individuals tend to lose their individuality, good judgement, and conscience in a crowd and do things that they normally wouldn't do, and not used the term lynch mob. I was amused that the term was so offensive that I was told the very mention of it was offensive and how could I be so stupid, and a day later someone is citing an article with the term. I guess it's one of those terms that some people can use and some people cant.

I haven't convicted him, but he needs to be brought to trial and prosecuted, he stalked a person, chased him and killed him. I also think that's what most people want, so I don't see why you have dreams of lynching dancing around in your head.