AudioKinesis 112 Cab

[loopee]

ooohhhhh - I like that cab with the LMII....would also be wonderful to hear what that cab and head would sound with some flatwounds.......

Here is a little clip of this cab with my Alleva-Coppolo 60's style J, the warm and fat sounding Markbass LMII head (set completely flat), and the wonderful Thunderchild cab, with the top end set to the gentle 3.5K roll-off (so, a bit different from the bright stainless steel roundwound aggressive ash/maple Sadowsky tone).

The strings are reasonably new DR Lo Rider Nickel roundwounds, and the bass has the preamp engaged, but set flat (i.e., no bass or treble boost). I have the passive tone control rolled off about 25% to further smooth the top end.

I recorded this a bit off axis, and it sounds great. I hope you can hear the wonderful growl of that bass, and the note definition, which combined with the deep, clear bass makes this a winner for this type of tone.

The tune is a simple little slow bossa 'music minus 1' version of 'Stella By Starlight'.

How about that hi tech recording process.... turn on the camera, start the music minus one track, and hope I can sit down before the downbeat

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]


Edit: To be honest, I haven't gotten my Mouse to sound like I like out of the cab at this point... a bit too much down low for that massively low end voiced instrument. However, I am one who likes that 'DB throught the little GK combo' tone... mids and growl versus huge and open, so that might just be personal taste. I'll mess with it over the next few days and post up. The clip I have up of my Mouse through the TC rig (which is very mid voiced) is my 'gold standard' for how I like that instrument to sound. FYI.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

wow when are you hoping to release the 212?

Well it looks like no earlier than late October... sorry, Jimmy! I have to leave for a home audio show in less than a week, and I still have a lot of work to do to get ready for that. And I'm running behind on getting Thunderchilds... Thunderchildren... whatever... shipped out. Maybe if I spent less time on TalkBass, eh?

The 212 that JimmyM beta-tested will include pretty much all the tricks that I have up my sleeve. On its Duratexed shoulders will rest my fantasies of ambushing the high-end bass cab world. It will be about twice the price of Thunderchild, and around 60 pounds if my math is correct.

Now I have gotten inquiries from people that make me think there might be a market for a beanpole 212 that would be more like a Thunderchild with a second woofer underneath the first. It would use two stock 3012LF woofers and a more expensive compression driver, but the voicing would remain very similar. Efficiency would only go up by 1.5 dB, but power handling would double. Footprint stays the same (14" by 14"), height increases to 36", and weight to about 50 pounds. If there is interest, I'll look into it further... but that cab would be at least a couple months further away; I wouldn't even get to prototype it for at least another month.

TB has a contingent of Photoshop fans.

Perhaps a logo design contest is in order?

The prize could be something commensurate...

Well actually I like the logo IntrepidCellist posted, but I dislike doing stuff that's ostentatious and unnecessary. I recall reading a thread here about people who removed or visually erased the logos on their cabs. I prefer understatement.

 

[wave rider]

...
Well actually I like the logo IntrepidCellist posted, but I dislike doing stuff that's ostentatious and unnecessary. I recall reading a thread here about people who removed or visually erased the logos on their cabs. I prefer understatement.

=wr=

 

[MIJ-VI]

You know? The more I look at the Thunder Child's photo here the more I'm thinking that it looks pretty unique as is.

It could use a maker's mark and contact info on its rear panel though.

 

[Bernie Connors]

The 212 that JimmyM beta-tested will include pretty much all the tricks that I have up my sleeve. On its Duratexed shoulders will rest my fantasies of ambushing the high-end bass cab world. It will be about twice the price of Thunderchild, and around 60 pounds if my math is correct.

What are the dimensions of this cab?

 

[mothra2]

Well actually I like the logo IntrepidCellist posted, but I dislike doing stuff that's ostentatious and unnecessary. I recall reading a thread here about people who removed or visually erased the logos on their cabs. I prefer understatement.

Big +1 to that ... perhaps the Logo is just that...no Logo at all.

Or

Since the horn is so central to your designs, perhaps just a subtle outline color to the edge of the horn, some color that you could 'own' much like Trace Elliot or MarkBass.


Edit: ... perhaps the Logo is just that...no Logo at all.
Looks so darn clean like that.

 

[JxBass]

Well actually I like the logo IntrepidCellist posted, but I dislike doing stuff that's ostentatious and unnecessary. I recall reading a thread here about people who removed or visually erased the logos on their cabs. I prefer understatement.

I'm with you Duke. I like it when people say "that's really great - what the heck is it ?!?!"

 

[KJung]

hey ken, got anything with the crossover on the 3.5k position? what really got me with the horn was how gentle and natural the rolloff sounded. it was bright enough for vocals at full range imho, but it was this gentle kind of bright that wasn't grating or annoying. i can't wait to hear how this crossover worked out. i really have to hand it to duke for taking an idea that i'm sure seemed far fetched at first and running with it. i wish i had that recording i did with vt distortion on the prototype with me so i could post them. once you get those upper freqs out of it, the distortion tones are fantastic through the horn. and the horn smoothes it off enough to where i think some will like distortion full range as well.

Hey Jimmy,

I switch between the three horn settings in my first clip briefly. However, the entire clip with the green Alleva-Coppolo was recorded with the horn in the 3.5K gentle roll-off position and with the fat, warm, LMII. It sounds really good to me!

 

[KJung]

ooohhhhh - I like that cab with the LMII....would also be wonderful to hear what that cab and head would sound with some flatwounds.......

The LMII/III sounds particularly good with this cab. I like that head with this cab even better than the F1/F500, and that will probably be my gigging head with this cab.

 

[KJung]

=wr=

That looks slick... understated and classy. Dig it.

 

[KJung]

Well it looks like no earlier than late October... sorry, Jimmy! I have to leave for a home audio show in less than a week, and I still have a lot of work to do to get ready for that. And I'm running behind on getting Thunderchilds... Thunderchildren... whatever... shipped out. Maybe if I spent less time on TalkBass, eh?

The 212 that JimmyM beta-tested will include pretty much all the tricks that I have up my sleeve. On its Duratexed shoulders will rest my fantasies of ambushing the high-end bass cab world. It will be about twice the price of Thunderchild, and around 60 pounds if my math is correct.

Now I have gotten inquiries from people that make me think there might be a market for a beanpole 212 that would be more like a Thunderchild with a second woofer underneath the first. It would use two stock 3012LF woofers and a more expensive compression driver, but the voicing would remain very similar. Efficiency would only go up by 1.5 dB, but power handling would double. Footprint stays the same (14" by 14"), height increases to 36", and weight to about 50 pounds. If there is interest, I'll look into it further... but that cab would be at least a couple months further away; I wouldn't even get to prototype it for at least another month.

That would be a cool design. I guess my feeling on the whole thing is that there are already quite a few fantastic dual 12 cabs out there, and once you get into a bigger box and multiple drivers, the more standard design cabs with less super duper drivers and regular tweeters do a pretty darn good job. I'm still giddy over my Bergantino AE212.

The 'magic' of the Thunderchild in the bass amplification category is the combination of low weight, massive low end, good power handling, AND the 4ohm impedance that makes it a true 'one cab' solution for many playing contexts.

In playing some of the 2 x 3012LF with mid driver and tweeter solutions out there, like some of the LDS boxes, I ended up having to roll off quite a bit of bass to 'punch them up'... almost too much of a good thing. GREAT sounding boxes, but not as unique IMO. The low end of the Thunderchild mimics a more traditional 212 in a much smaller box, which IMO is the magic of this product.

IMO there. Once you get to 60 pounds and a relatively large cab, there are quite a few 4ohm 212's out there that are pretty killer already.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't do it!.... but your 'sweet spot' IMO is this little monster you are already producing... nothing else like it on the market at the moment. The only thing that might be close is the new Acme 112 with tweeter (which I believe will also be available in 4ohm version), but that hasn't hit the market yet.

 

[mothra2]

... The only thing that might be close is the new Acme 112 with tweeter (which I believe will also be available in 4ohm version), but that hasn't hit the market yet.

Seriously good company to be keeping there (love my B2) ... and I have not heard Andy's latest, but from a projection/cut standpoint I can't see how this horn solution would not be functionally superior (assuming you liked the un-EQ'd sound of it). That said, projection/cut with some EQ bumping (while still being able to dial back to a flatter more neutral balance, room/gig depending) are but two of many metrics on peoples lists ... but those two are on a LOT of people's lists.

 

[Bernie Connors]

Hey Jimmy,

I switch between the three horn settings in my first clip briefly. However, the entire clip with the green Alleva-Coppolo was recorded with the horn in the 3.5K gentle roll-off position and with the fat, warm, LMII. It sounds really good to me!

I'm really digging the alder/rw combo through that amp with the 3.5 roll-off.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

What are the dimensions of this cab?

Sorry Bernie, but you guys are too smart. If I tell you the dimensions, you'll figure out part of what I'm doing in that cab, and I want it to be a surprise.

In playing some of the 2 x 3012LF with mid driver and tweeter solutions out there, like some of the LDS boxes, I ended up having to roll off quite a bit of bass to 'punch them up'... almost too much of a good thing.

Port tuning will be lower in the 212 box, and port length will be adjustable as well. Not enough room in the Thunderchild cab to include adjustable port length.

The 'magic' of the Thunderchild in the bass amplification category is the combination of low weight, massive low end, good power handling, AND the 4ohm impedance that makes it a true 'one cab' solution for many playing contexts.

.... your 'sweet spot' IMO is this little monster you are already producing... nothing else like it on the market at the moment. The only thing that might be close is the new Acme 112 with tweeter (which I believe will also be available in 4ohm version), but that hasn't hit the market yet.

Thank you! And I agree - Thunderchild will be my bread and butter.

The concept for Thunderchild arose from my reading threads here on TalkBass, looking for a niche. For over a year I'd been trying to come up with a reasonably portable, reasonably high power handling 4-ohm cab that sounded good. I tried a bunch of different approaches here at home, some of which I sent to Chef, my beta-tester for this project. His honest feedback was invaluable; otherwise, I would have gone ahead with a lesser product. His comments led me to me make a few small but hopefully worthwhile changes to Thunderchild in between its Seattle GTG debut and arrival at Kjung's house.

I have no desire to compete directly with Andy; he is superb at what he does, and that would be like entering the ring with Mike Tyson in his prime. I will shoot for a market segment that is looking for a different set of tradeoffs along the bass extension/efficiency continuum.

 

[Bernie Connors]

Sorry Bernie, but you guys are too smart. If I tell you the dimensions, you'll figure out part of what I'm doing in that cab, and I want it to be a surprise.

Completely understand. Looking forward to seeing it.

 

[rpsands]

Duke; if it's twice the cost of a thunderchild, I think you'd do better modularizing them and making the thunderchild's form factor more stack friendly (and using those sweet clamps to make things carry like one cab).

The main reason for a 2x cab is -- 1 trip, and saving a lot of money. If it's twice the cost I don't see the market being there.

I could be wrong, but them's my thoughts.

 

[jnewmark]

Duke; if it's twice the cost of a thunderchild, I think you'd do better modularizing them and making the thunderchild's form factor more stack friendly (and using those sweet clamps to make things carry like one cab).

The main reason for a 2x cab is -- 1 trip, and saving a lot of money. If it's twice the cost I don't see the market being there.

I could be wrong, but them's my thoughts.

Kinda wondering about this. Why not get two Thunderchild cabs instead of opting for the 212? Same price, and schleping shoud'nt be an issue due to the light weight, added benefit of having two horns, and if you use a power amp, ohmage should'nt be an issue either. You of course have the option of using just one cab if the gig calls for it. Any other pros and cons ?

 

[Bernie Connors]

Kinda wondering about this. Why not get two Thunderchild cabs instead of opting for the 212? Same price, and schleping shoud'nt be an issue due to the light weight, added benefit of having two horns, and if you use a power amp, ohmage should'nt be an issue either. You of course have the option of using just one cab if the gig calls for it. Any other pros and cons ?

Good point.

Possible subtle differences in tone due to it being an all-in-one cab?

 

[jnewmark]

Good point.

Possible subtle differences in tone due to it being an all-in-one cab?

Yeah, not to mention that you are getting two stock 3012LF woofers in the 212, while getting two " modified " LF's in the individual cabs.

 

[rpsands]

Kinda wondering about this. Why not get two Thunderchild cabs instead of opting for the 212? Same price, and schleping shoud'nt be an issue due to the light weight, added benefit of having two horns, and if you use a power amp, ohmage should'nt be an issue either. You of course have the option of using just one cab if the gig calls for it. Any other pros and cons ?

The main issues are like you said
-ohmage
-stacking (you have to flip one around and put the horns together and it's still a bit of a negative effect on response)
-the 3012Lf version will have more low end extension, so it's a flat out different tone profile.