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Avatar SB112 with MID !!!!!! The SB126

#41
daveAvatar said:
HI Guys, Thanks for the interest in the new SB126. Yes, after hearing that a 6 inch mid would complement the 12 well, I finally was able to make one. We tested the existing sealed back Eminence mid that we use in the TB153 and compared it to a new 6 inch open back Eminence mid and the sealed back sounds much better so we went with that. We used the full 12 db two way crossover at about 3900Hz and it works well plus has the volume control so the mid can be dialed in right where you want it to be. We also just designed and added to the bass cab line, a matching 2x10 with tweeter in the same side vented cab. The idea is to have a small stack of a 210 on top of the 112 cab.
What started all of the this was that Fender called me with an incredible truckload speaker deal of all of the new Eminence and Faital speakers left over from the SWR and Genz Benz companies. Amoung the speakers were a couple thousand of the Faital 10PR300 and 12PR300.
My first idea was to do two 16 ohm Faital tens in a 210 cab and do a matching 112 with the Faital 8 ohm 12 so the two 8 ohm cabs would make a standard 4 ohm load. After playing around with them and the Bass Pro box program, we got the 210 to sound as good as possible for having a FS of 65Hz. So, because the 210 is more about hitting real hard rather than going down super low, I knew we'd have to get the low lows out of the 112 cab. The Faital 12 in the 112 sounded good with the Faital 210 but only on a 4 string bass. For a low B, the 12 has to be either the Eminence Delta 12LF ceramic, the Deltalite 2512 Neo LF that is custom for us, or the Kappalite 3012LF. We use the Delta 12LF or the Deltalite Neo in that cab now and it sounds great and have the 3012LFs coming from Eminence next week.
Playing the Faital 210 with the Eminence LFs 112 sound fantastic together on 4 or 5 string. Plus you have the flexibility of using one , the other or both cabs.
Anyway, I just wanted to give some background info on how these two new cabs came to be. I hope that wasn't too long or spammy.
None of this is in the existing antiquated website. We are launching a new transactional website hopefully next week and the new models will be in there with all of the speaker and cosmetic options and pricing. We can ship the cabs with no covering or make the cabs with reverse baffles too.
Again a big thanks to you guys for all of your input and support. Feel free to call or email me during the week with questions or to chat.
Thanks Dave
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Is it possible to purchase a SB126 line x with steel grille unloaded? What would the cost be?
 
#42
Mystic Michael said:
Ya mind sharing your thoughts on the SB126 with us, CroMag? How's it sounding?

Also, which woofer did you choose? 4 ohm impedance or 8 ohms?

MM
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ok, it came today and for starters it sounds great, might need a bit of break in time for the woofers but all in all good so far! dave did a great job on this, the cab looks great the linex is top notch... so these SB126 cabs are great people... im not taking anything away from the greenboys but for less than half price how could you go wrong! they use the same components! hope this helps!!!!
 
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#43
cromag31 said:
ok, it came today and for starters it sounds great, might need a bit of break in time for the woofers but all in all good so far! dave did a great job on this, the cab looks great the linex is top notch... so these SB126 cabs are great people... im not taking anything away from the greenboys but for less than half price how could you go wrong! they use the same components! hope this helps!!!!
Click to expand...

Figured it would. At least on paper, the SB126 would seem to have a lot to like. And I'm sure you're correct that the woofer will need some time to break in (maybe not so much the midrange driver). Since you made a direct comparison to the Greenboy-designed "fear" cabs, I'm guessing you opted for the Kappalite 3012 LF woofer, yes? Would you happen to know which crossover Dave installed in your cab, i.e. which crossover frequency point? In a recent email exchange, Dave told me that for this cab he'll be using a crossover at about 2.5K, rather than the standard 3.9K he uses for the SB112. Having checked out the frequency response graphs for both of his pre-existing woofers (the Delta 12 LF and the modified Deltalite II 2512), that would seem to be a good fit for an SB126.

After a long time of sitting on the fence regarding the SB112 (having read some remarks about the tweeter sounding harsh, and the frequency hole between the top end of the woofer and the bottom end of the tweeter), Dave's decision to install a midrange driver instead of a tweeter pushed me over the edge; made my decision for me. I'll be getting a pair of SB126s, Delta 12 LF woofers, 8 ohms each, mirror-image baffles, in black Line-X and black metal grills. Can't wait.

MM
 
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#44
Mystic Michael said:
Dave,

Just in case you'll be checking in on this thread from time to time, can you give us an idea of how your OEM version of the Deltalite II 2512 woofer compares with the Kappalite 12LF in terms of frequency response? Both on the low end of the range, as well as on the high end?

Specs on the stock versions of each of these are readily available, but that doesn't help too much unless/until one knows how your OEM version of the Deltalite II 2512 compares with its stock version.

Thanks,

MM
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Here's an old thread comparing stock spec Emi. DL-II to Avatars OEM. Doesn't really help with K-lite LF's though, at least not their OEM 4ohm models. I think the Avatar 8ohm KappaliteLF models are stock Eminence.

http://www.talkbass.com/threads/deltalite-version-i-vs-ii.800371/

In short, Av OEMs have a good deal heavier cone. This allows a bit deeper extension, and their alignment has a bit more xmax. Downsides are a bit of a hit in sensitivity and a very different topend.

I like the Avatars in 2-way designs where something else is running above 1khz or so. Much prefer the stockers as a regular "one speaker plays it all" bass cab*.


* Caveat---Avatar used an LPF even in their woofer---> tweeter models. It's not really needed to keep the drivers from interfering with each other As their ranges don't overlap naturally. I assume it's to tame the upper peak of their OEM "deltalite LF's", thus removing some of the harshness or "mechanical rather than musical" tone I was talking about there. My impressions were made just running the 4ohm Avatar 12's full signal, no filters.
 
#45
will33 said:
Here's an old thread comparing stock spec Emi. DL-II to Avatars OEM. Doesn't really help with K-lite LF's though, at least not their OEM 4ohm models. I think the Avatar 8ohm KappaliteLF models are stock Eminence.

http://www.talkbass.com/threads/deltalite-version-i-vs-ii.800371/

In short, Av OEMs have a good deal heavier cone. This allows a bit deeper extension, and their alignment has a bit more xmax. Downsides are a bit of a hit in sensitivity and a very different topend.

I like the Avatars in 2-way designs where something else is running above 1khz or so. Much prefer the stockers as a regular "one speaker plays it all" bass cab*.


* Caveat---Avatar used an LPF even in their woofer---> tweeter models. It's not really needed to keep the drivers from interfering with each other As their ranges don't overlap naturally. I assume it's to tame the upper peak of their OEM "deltalite LF's", thus removing some of the harshness or "mechanical rather than musical" tone I was talking about there. My impressions were made just running the 4ohm Avatar 12's full signal, no filters.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Will. Very informative.

I was indeed wondering how much the OEM Avatar 2512 gives up on the high end for additional extension on the low end. Seems the answer, at least for me, would be "too much". At least too much for a crossover set much higher than about 1.5K or so.

MM
 
#46
Mystic Michael said:
Thanks, Will. Very informative.

I was indeed wondering how much the OEM Avatar 2512 gives up on the high end for additional extension on the low end. Seems the answer, at least for me, would be "too much". At least too much for a crossover set much higher than about 1.5K or so.

MM
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Those are my impressions regarding the raw drivers, but I have not heard those same drivers in an Avatar cab with their LPF taming the peak (if that is indeed what it's doing there).
 
#47
The LPF should help the topend of their drivers sound more musical, but would also leave a bigger response "hole" between woofer and tweet.

To me, having those uppermids come from a smaller cone (like the 1.6khz crossover used in the sb112 + 6" mod) is a good thing. I like those uppermids being there and present, but have pretty much no need for the two octaves from 5khz-20khz that a tweeter brings with it.

Others may like it the other way, that's fine too.
 
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#48
I find that having all those uppermids in there can sound too twangy/clanky/"not warm"up close, but in smaller bar type gigs where you carry a room of 50-100 people by turning up your rig and not having big/nice PA support, those uppermids get damped down some out there by the audience bodies, so the result out there is a nice, full, and "warm" tone that still keeps it's note definition and tone.

Pretty much ends up "just right" out in the audience. Just have to know that and keep in the back of your mind that it sounds good "out there", even if it doesn't "up here". :)

One of the joys of being a bass player...taking one for the team and putting up with less than stellar tone 5ft. in front of your amp in order to have stellar tone for the other people there.
 
#53
bluesrx said:
I believe Dave is going to offer the eminence 1k6 crossover as an option. At least that's what he told me in my correspondence with him.
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He told me he's concerned that at the 1.6K frequency point, some players would abuse the cab enough to blow out the midrange driver. Since the Delta 12 LF woofer does indeed stay relatively flat up to 2.5K and a bit higher, there should be very little frequency gap using a crossover with the crossover point @ 2.5K. And of course it would be a lot tougher to blow out the midrange driver as well (for all those "my amp goes to 11" cats).

I suppose having that 1.6K to 2.5K range being covered by the woofer rather than the midrange driver would change the cab's tonal profile somewhat. But it doesn't immediately occur to me just how. Maybe impart a bit more of an old-school vibe?

Dave quoted an upcharge of $50 for installing the 1K6 HPF in lieu of the 2.5K two-way crossover. So there would have to be a significant improvement in performance in order to justify the added expense.

FWIW...

MM
 
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#58
Mystic Michael said:
He told me he's concerned that at the 1.6K frequency point, some players would abuse the cab enough to blow out the midrange driver. <snip> Dave quoted an upcharge of $50 for installing the 1K6 HPF in lieu of the 2.5K two-way crossover. So there would have to be a significant improvement in performance in order to justify the added expense.
Click to expand...

I have had no problems with the xover at 1.6K in my modded 12+6 cabinet. The Eminence PXB:1k6 is about $25, so you could do it yourself pretty easily.
 

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