Baer Amplification Megathread!

[nostatic]

fwiw I've gigged most of the current class D bass amps as well as previous AB/etc. The "feel" thing is real, but there are a lot of variables, not the least of which is the tone goals of the player and their technique.

For instance I gigged an Ashdown ABM500 for a number of years. Always liked that amp and it was a good "standard" for moving to smaller/lighter amps. I cycled through a lot of candidates that didn't really work for me for a variety of reasons - often it was "feel". Probably my favorite feel setup is Jule's Monique preamp into his M700 (Hypex) class D amp. You get the bounce from the tubes - a real tube preamp section rather than just tossing a 12AX7 into the path - and the power amp kicks like a mule. But there still is a size issues to deal with. But Monique has a feel that is pretty spectacular.

Fast forward to the D800. So far I've been impressed gigging that, though it feels a lot different than Monique. It is a very quick amp that will grit up nicely when you drive the front end a bit. But it doesn't feel like a lot of other amps. Then I pulled out my FEA dual band comp (which didn't really work for me with Monique) and all of the sudden there is a bit of give in front while still staying articulate and punching hard. While the feel is different than Monique, it works for me as well.

IME class D can be done well, and there's no way I'm going back to a big/heavy amp. If I want chewy tube, Monique fits the bill and is small/light enough to haul to the studio or put on top of an amp. Or if I want to travel simpler/lighter, just the D800 will cover any gig. I love Roger's cabs as I think the paper cone mid and no tweeter is the secret sauce - hence why I played ML112s and now have Duke's H1203 cab. Only reason I switched was to go a little smaller/lighter (I had the rev 1 ML112s) as I do a lot of load in/outs often in very tight places and every inch counts. Would love to see what Roger can do with a class D-based head.

 

[R Baer]

As they say Different strokes for different folks. I hear ya.. I understand what to year saying too.. And i am NOT the antichrist of Class D . SMPS etc. I just think that they are different sounding.. A better term would be different FEELING.. Bass is interactive to me.

Although, i did play your new Mesa D800 and the prototype version of the new Genzler Magellan 800 amp.. In my opinion those two are CLEARLY different than previous consumer grade Class D / smps bass amps that i have tried. Just my opinion..
When i say Clearly Different i mean clearly Better, or more able to satisfy the ears of people with pro level wishes..
Something advanced forward in those 2 amps, I don't know what it is, but its different...

The new IcePower modules are definitely better sounding and feeling than previous generations. The IcePower engineers told me new modules were designed more with bass and sub applications in mind. I've A/B'ed the new module with previous ones and I have to agree. I find the new module to have better authority in the lows with a warmer, less harsh top end. A definite improvement.

 

[svtb15]

I didn't know the MESA and Genzler had any new type of module.. Not sure what the new Genzler is running as its power ... I played the D800 a few weeks ago. It was real good , and it's different than past lightweights that i have A/B'd to my Crown MacroTech rig which is what i always use as my reference point of massiveness....

Currently, I have a loaner Genzler Magellan 800 prototype that i was blessed to take on a test run. Well that may explain why they both have a different "something" ...If so, it is noticeable right out of the gate..
Not so much in a living room or at home. But on a gig, i noticed it immediately and within the first two measures..
The body of the note will stay with you .

The new IcePower modules are definitely better sounding and feeling than previous generations. The IcePower engineers told me new modules were designed more with bass and sub applications in mind. I've A/B'ed the new module with previous ones and I have to agree. I find the new module to have better authority in the lows with a warmer, less harsh top end. A definite improvement.

 

[Kirk Bryant]

Would it be reasonable to posit that in a similar way to "Tube watts aren't the same as SS watts" in that it takes considerably more SS watts to get close to the "sound and feel or slam and punch" of tube watts. Then we might say that although most or at least many thought that 500 D class watts would be equal to the same quantity of SS watts, when in fact to again match the "sound and feel" of those 500 SS watts we needed to increase by 50% to double (roughly) the number again to in fact match the "sound and feel" of our old SS lead sleds. As evidenced by the new 700-1000 watt modules used in the newer amps. So perhaps D class watts aren't the same as SS watts? While I'm not nessesarily saying this is true, I do know some amps feel different than others and I know when I play my Genz SM amp it doesn't feel the same as my Glock and when I play my Glock it doesn't feel the same as my old Sunn tube rig. There may be nothing more difficult to nail down or get a fix on than "feel" because it is so subjective and everyone hears and feel things differently. I don't even begin to understand the science of it but as a musician I am always interested in what others more educated and experienced than I think about these things. So please do carry on with the discussion oh most learned ones.

 

[R Baer]

I didn't know the MESA and Genzler had any new type of module.. Not sure what the new Genzler is running as its power ... I played the D800 a few weeks ago. It was real good , and it's different than past lightweights that i have A/B'd to my Crown MacroTech rig which is what i always use as my reference point of massiveness....

Currently, I have a loaner Genzler Magellan 800 prototype that i was blessed to take on a test run. Well that may explain why they both have a different "something" ...If so, it is noticeable right out of the gate..
Not so much in a living room or at home. But on a gig, i noticed it immediately and within the first two measures..
The body of the note will stay with you .

I have no idea what Genzler and Mesa use. My guess and it's only a guess, would be the new IcePower 700w module, but I have no first hand knowledge of that whatsoever. A big chunk of the class D bass amps out there are using IcePower. The engineers at IcePower told me the new modules were designed to have more reserve power, so yes, they do seem to have more body to the note.

 

[tombowlus]

I have no idea what Genzler and Mesa use. My guess and it's only a guess, would be the new IcePower 700w module.

That would be an accurate guess.

 

[Dave Hill]

I have no idea what Genzler and Mesa use. My guess and it's only a guess, would be the new IcePower 700w module, but I have no first hand knowledge of that whatsoever. A big chunk of the class D bass amps out there are using IcePower. The engineers at IcePower told me the new modules were designed to have more reserve power, so yes, they do seem to have more body to the note.

"New" as in not out yet?
Thanks

 

[tombowlus]

"New" as in not out yet?
Thanks

The Link Removed is currently available.

 

[Holdsg]

my inner geek loved all 46 pages of that stuff. Don't understand most of it, but you gotta love geekdom.

 

[Lowendtech]

Love this part at the end.


ICEpower a/s products are not authorized for use as critical components in life support devices or life support
systems without the express written approval of the president and general counsel of ICEpower a/s. As used
herein:
1. Life support devices or systems are devices or systems which, (a) are intended for surgical implant into
the body, or (b) support or sustain life, and whose failure to perform when properly used in accordance
with instructions for use provided in the labelling, can be reasonably expected to result in a significant
injury to the user.
2. A critical component is any component of a life support device or system whose failure to perform can be
reasonably expected to cause the failure of the life support device or system, or to affect its safety or
effectiveness.

 

[Passinwind]

Love this part at the end.


ICEpower a/s products are not authorized for use as critical components in life support devices or life support
systems without the express written approval of the president and general counsel of ICEpower a/s. As used
herein:
1. Life support devices or systems are devices or systems which, (a) are intended for surgical implant into
the body, or (b) support or sustain life, and whose failure to perform when properly used in accordance
with instructions for use provided in the labelling, can be reasonably expected to result in a significant
injury to the user.
2. A critical component is any component of a life support device or system whose failure to perform can be
reasonably expected to cause the failure of the life support device or system, or to affect its safety or
effectiveness.

Having worked servicing nurse call systems and the like, covering your butt is often job one in those situations. Same holds true for getting the proper approvals for potentially lethal widgets like MI amps, IMHO.

 

[Lowendtech]

Having worked servicing nurse call systems and the like, covering your butt is often job one in those situations. Same holds true for getting the proper approvals for potentially lethal widgets like MI amps, IMHO.

So true.

Irony is, upon trying the new amp, the rest of my amps (except for my tube amp) are now on life support.

 

[Jeff Genzler]

That would be an accurate guess.

I don't want to go off track here but regarding the GENZLER Magellan 800, yes we are using the 700ASC module.

When developing this new platform, the ICEpower engineers did listen to many of their customer's who were early adopters of the 125ASX/2 and 250ASX/2 modules and had intimate understanding of their capabilities and limitations.

These new modules have many of those requested refinements and thus do deliver a much better musical response and "feel" when implemented properly for bass instrument amplification.

Now back to our regular Baer Amplification programming......

Looking forward to seeing you at NAMM Roger!

 

[Lowendtech]

I don't want to go off track here but regarding the GENZLER Magellan 800, yes we are using the 700ASC module.

When developing this new platform, the ICEpower engineers did listen to many of their customer's who were early adopters of the 125ASX/2 and 250ASX/2 modules and had intimate understanding of their capabilities and limitations.

These new modules have many of those requested refinements and thus do deliver a much better musical response and "feel" when implemented properly for bass instrument amplification.

Now back to our regular Baer Amplification programming......

Looking forward to seeing you at NAMM Roger!

Now if only a northern cousin could know how to access one up here when they are released.

 

[R Baer]

I don't want to go off track here but regarding the GENZLER Magellan 800, yes we are using the 700ASC module. When developing this new platform, the ICEpower engineers did listen to many of their customer's who were early adopters of the 125ASX/2 and 250ASX/2 modules and had intimate understanding of their capabilities and limitations. These new modules have many of those requested refinements and thus do deliver a much better musical response and "feel" when implemented properly for bass instrument amplification. Now back to our regular Baer Amplification programing...... Looking forward to seeing you at NAMM Roger!

The guys at IcePower are indeed very good about listening to the needs of their customers. We tried some of their previous generation modules, but as I've mentioned before, the low end authority didn't exactly float my boat. My engineering crew had told me this was mainly due to the design of the SMPS on those modules. Great burst strength, but very little after that. Every year at NAMM we get a visit from the IcePower guys where they ask me why Baer isn't using their modules and I have told them our reasons.

They've acknowledged before that the earlier modules did indeed had some limitations when it came to our application, as bass amps were never the intended market for those modules. Back at the 2014 NAMM show they mentioned that they had some new stuff in the works that will better address the needs of bass amps and powered subs. Fast forward to the new 700ASC which has been out a while now and is a much improved product. Our initial test with it put it much closer to the type of response I like from a bass amp power section. It's nice when a company actually listens to their customers (and non-customers) feedback and uses that info to drive their product development. They even have a 1200watt version due out soon although in my design philosophy, equipping a bass amp with enough power to vaporize my customers speakers cabinets, is not the greatest idea.

 

[Lowendtech]

So a Valkyrie Pro-Light with a VTI front end then, you say? drool

The guys at IcePower are indeed very good about listening to the needs of their customers. We tried some of their previous generation modules, but as I've mentioned before, the low end authority didn't exactly float my boat. My engineering crew had told me this was mainly due to the design of the SMPS on those modules. Great burst strength, but very little after that. Every year at NAMM we get a visit from the IcePower guys where they ask me why Baer isn't using their modules and I have told them our reasons.

They have always acknowledged that the earlier modules did indeed had some limitations when it came to our application, as bass amps were never their intended market for those modules. Back at the 2014 NAMM show they mentioned that they had some new stuff in the works that will better address the needs of bass amps and powered subs. Fast forward to the new 700ASC which has been out a while now and is a much improved product. Our initial test with it put it much closer to the type of response I like from a bass amp power section. It's nice when a company actually listens to their customers (and non-customers) feedback and uses that info to drive their product development. They even have a 1200watt version due out soon although in my design philosophy, equipping a bass amp with enough power to vaporize my customers speakers cabinets, is not the greatest idea.

 

[R Baer]

So a Valkyrie Pro-Light with a VTI front end then, you say? drool

I'm treating any new amp we make as a totally clean slate, although there's no doubt it would have elements of the Valkyrie and VTI mixed in. The class D market is a very interesting and very tough market. The advent of these drop in modules means that any company with a preamp can now put out a bass amp. As such, I think the next few years will see a whole bunch of new companies, mostly pedal manufacturers, entering the amp market. The Aguilar Tone Hammer is a good example of pedal turned amp and I think we will see a lot more of it in the future. What I see is the class D market flooded with new amps while prices continue to drop as more and more companies try to grab market share. That's certainly an area where I don't see Baer Amplification going, so the question becomes for me, is there really a market for what would no doubt be a $1500 class D amp made the way I want to make it.

 

[Lowendtech]

I'm treating any new amp we make as a totally clean slate, although there's no doubt it would have elements of the Valkyrie and VTI mixed in. The class D market is a very interesting and very tough market. The advent of these drop in modules means that any company with a preamp can now put out a bass amp. As such, I think the next few years will see a whole bunch of new companies, mostly pedal manufacturers, entering the amp market. The Aguilar Tone Hammer is a good example of pedal turned amp and I think we will see a lot more of it in the future. What I see is the class D market flooded with new amps while prices continue to drop as more and more companies try to grab market share. That's certainly an area where I don't see Baer Amplification going, so the question becomes for me, is there really a market for what would no doubt be a $1500 class D amp made the way I want to make it.

I can totally appreciate your dedication to your business model and your tone goals.
You've obviously put some thought into it.
Still hoping for a VTI when the time is right.

 

[Jared Lash]

Quick story to share.

I've been absolutely slammed at work for the last month, working a lot of hours and barely finding time to play any bass though just this week I reached a point where things are calming down.

So on Monday when I received a SolidGoldFX Beta - which is a pretty well regarded bass overdrive pedal - I decided to sit down and play for a while. The Valkyrie & ML112 and or ML212 has always sounded great (to me at least) with dirt pedals so I fired up the Valk (all controls flat with the tube circuit on and the tube gain around 1 o'clock, plugged in what has become my #1 bass (custom 4 with Nordstrand 70's wound singles and 3 band pre), set the Beta fairly subtly, connected the cables and power, stomped the pedal and started playing.

Absolutely amazing tone.

Very alive, exciting and vibrant but still with great clarity. The overdrive really was subtle - I had to dig in pretty hard to get some grit but when I did it sounded fantastic. Really natural and great sounding. I couldn't believe how much I was digging the tone. I played for a few minutes and really enjoyed it and then decided I wanted to dial in more gain on the Beta to see how that sounded.

Then I realized the pedal wasn't on.

When I connected the power supply the Beta was powered on so when I stomped it I actually turned it off. So it was just the Baer rig.

As for the Beta, it's a pretty nice pedal too and did sound great through the Valkyrie and ML 212. Very round and fat giving a great old school character when I want that. So I'm happy with it. But I'm even more happy that I love my setup.

 

[ExaltBass]

I received the 1st, of 2, Baer ML-112s today (2nd one due Friday) and powered it with my Markbass TTE500... wow! Very nice Then, I plugged a second cab - a Gries Neo 112 prototype (no tweeter) and WOW! I can't wait for Friday to hear the full stack.

My very first amp was a 63 white Fender Bassman, back in '64. This isn't your Grandpa's 2 x 12! Did I say WOW!? I'm finding now, that I'm preferring the sound of my passive basses best (or active basses in passive mode) - at least in my practice room... hmm. I'll be playing the 'stack' at church next week, so it will be interesting to see what our sound guy, and the rest of the team thinks.