Baer Amplification Megathread!

[tombowlus]

Just to make sure, all my comments are made assuming you are talking about putting both cabs on the floor next to one another versus stacking them one on top of the other.

If you are simply talking about the difference of stacking the two cabs in their individual vertical versus horizontal position, then the whole thing becomes a VERY minor issue, and really only impacts getting that top mid driver a touch closer to your ears.

FWIW, I definitely hear myself differently, even in a mix scenario, when I stack the ML-112's (on top of each other) horizontally versus vertically, so I would suggest that folks try them in both stacked configurations and see which one works the best for you. I prefer the vertical stack, but YMMV.

 

[Flux Jetson]

I am nearly ready to augment my own ML112 with another cab, going to do this today actually.

How would a typical front ported 2x10 neo-drivered cab sound in comparison to Roger's ML112? In a general sense? JSYK, I typically don't use tweeters.

 

[tombowlus]

I am nearly ready to augment my own ML112 with another cab, going to do this today actually.

How would a typical front ported 2x10 neo-drivered cab sound in comparison to Roger's ML112? In a general sense? JSYK, I typically don't use tweeters.

Most 2x10's won't have as much upper midrange presence as the ML-112, and probably have a tad more low mids.

If possible, I'd recommend getting a second ML-112 before you buy anything else. But if you have a 2x10 laying around that you want to try with the ML-112, I say go for it. Many times the mix and match does not lead to stellar results, but sometimes, it works out very nicely.

 

[Flux Jetson]

Most 2x10's won't have as much upper midrange presence as the ML-112, and probably have a tad more low mids.

If possible, I'd recommend getting a second ML-112 before you buy anything else. But if you have a 2x10 laying around that you want to try with the ML-112, I say go for it. Many times the mix and match does not lead to stellar results, but sometimes, it works out very nicely.

Haahaa! So in other words ... you have no idea.

My bad sense of humor aside, what I'm hoping to accomplish is to fill in where the ML-112 leaves off. Since I have nothing to go by but published specs (and we all know how -ahem- ~accurate~ they can be) the ML112 is spec'd to have a freq response down to 55hz, and a useable range down to 40hz. Some of the front ported 210s advertize a useable low end at 28hz.

I plan on being able to pan between the two and actually mixing them via a foot controller. Each one powered by it's own amplifier channel. The idea being to pan/mix them at will while also panning/mixing preamp/EQ settings, and also panning/mixing pickups. It's an odd gizmo I've cooked up.

So anyhow, the idea is to use the 2x10 as more of a "low end grooving" cab while the Baer is used to provide the "Roundabout" tone.

Do I need to buy better dope, or am I on the right track (even a little?)

 

[tombowlus]

Haahaa! So in other words ... you have no idea.

My bad sense of humor aside, what I'm hoping to accomplish is to fill in where the ML-112 leaves off. Since I have nothing to go by but published specs (and we all know how -ahem- ~accurate~ they can be) the ML112 is spec'd to have a freq response down to 55hz, and a useable range down to 40hz. Some of the front ported 210s advertize a useable low end at 28hz.

I plan on being able to pan between the two and actually mixing them via a foot controller. Each one powered by it's own amplifier channel. The idea being to pan/mix them at will while also panning/mixing preamp/EQ settings, and also panning/mixing pickups. It's an odd gizmo I've cooked up.

So anyhow, the idea is to use the 2x10 as more of a "low end grooving" cab while the Baer is used to provide the "Roundabout" tone.

Do I need to buy better dope, or am I on the right track (even a little?)

Sounds like you enjoy mixing up your own "special sauce." I still say get two ML-112's, use one channel of amplification, and use EQ to achieve your desired results, but everyone has their own way of cracking the nut! Use what works for you.

 

[guy n. cognito]

Haahaa! So in other words ... you have no idea.

My bad sense of humor aside, what I'm hoping to accomplish is to fill in where the ML-112 leaves off. Since I have nothing to go by but published specs (and we all know how -ahem- ~accurate~ they can be) the ML112 is spec'd to have a freq response down to 55hz, and a useable range down to 40hz. Some of the front ported 210s advertize a useable low end at 28hz.

I plan on being able to pan between the two and actually mixing them via a foot controller. Each one powered by it's own amplifier channel. The idea being to pan/mix them at will while also panning/mixing preamp/EQ settings, and also panning/mixing pickups. It's an odd gizmo I've cooked up.

So anyhow, the idea is to use the 2x10 as more of a "low end grooving" cab while the Baer is used to provide the "Roundabout" tone.

Do I need to buy better dope, or am I on the right track (even a little?)

So you want a sub......... You don't see many subs being built with 10s.

 

[KJung]

Haahaa! So in other words ... you have no idea.

My bad sense of humor aside, what I'm hoping to accomplish is to fill in where the ML-112 leaves off. Since I have nothing to go by but published specs (and we all know how -ahem- ~accurate~ they can be) the ML112 is spec'd to have a freq response down to 55hz, and a useable range down to 40hz. Some of the front ported 210s advertize a useable low end at 28hz.

I plan on being able to pan between the two and actually mixing them via a foot controller. Each one powered by it's own amplifier channel. The idea being to pan/mix them at will while also panning/mixing preamp/EQ settings, and also panning/mixing pickups. It's an odd gizmo I've cooked up.

So anyhow, the idea is to use the 2x10 as more of a "low end grooving" cab while the Baer is used to provide the "Roundabout" tone.

Do I need to buy better dope, or am I on the right track (even a little?)

I think Tom's somewhat vague response was due to the fact that there is no such thing as a 'neo 210' tone. They all sound very, very different... from deep and smooth to super bright and punchy.

The best way to get a 'more low end grooving' thing out of a single cab (in your case the Baer) is to add a second one. It will have significantly more low end due to the driver coupling, and dialing out the upper mids is an easy task with EQ.

Also, it is best to ignore published spec's, especially the low end roll-off. Very few companies tell you if that is a 3db or 10db roll-off point, and none of them give you xmax specs that can give you a sense if the cab can actually put out significant volume at the low end frequency tuning.

Roger provides at least what I would guess is the -3db (55) and -10db (40) frequency response.

There is no small cab that does much below 40hz. The Acme does, but there is a big price to pay with that (high power needs, and some other special handling and hi passing when you are really pushing the cab).

 

[Flux Jetson]

I think Tom's somewhat vague response was due to the fact that there is no such thing as a 'neo 210' tone. They all sound very, very different... from deep and smooth to super bright and punchy.

The best way to get a 'more low end grooving' thing out of a single cab (in your case the Baer) is to add a second one. It will have significantly more low end due to the driver coupling, and dialing out the upper mids is an easy task with EQ.

Also, it is best to ignore published spec's, especially the low end roll-off. Very few companies tell you if that is a 3db or 10db roll-off point, and none of them give you xmax specs that can give you a sense if the cab can actually put out significant volume at the low end frequency tuning.

Roger provides at least what I would guess is the -3db (55) and -10db (40) frequency response.

There is no small cab that does much below 40hz. The Acme does, but there is a big price to pay with that (high power needs, and some other special handling and hi passing when you are really pushing the cab).

Well, while I'd love to add a 2nd ML112 I don't have another $700 to get that done.

Hmm .. after these conversations I'm feeling fairly dejected at this point and to be honest really don't know what to do.

If I add a second Baer 112, then the idea of mixing cabs is out. The way you're suggesting I get what I want is to use two ML112s at once. While that may be a grand idea and work quite well, it makes me re-write the entire plan.

Like I said, feeling quite lost at this point.

I suppose I could do the whole "return policy thing" with the 2x10 idea ... but I really ... REALLY ... dislike exploiting return policies and using them as "rental agreements". But in my case (living in a remote area) I amy be forced to do just that.

Thinking .. thinking ...

 

[Flux Jetson]

So you want a sub......... You don't see many subs being built with 10s.

Does a "sub" produce those really tight lows? Y'know, without muddying up the works? I'm asking because I don't know.

 

[KJung]

Well, while I'd love to add a 2nd ML112 I don't have another $700 to get that done.

Hmm .. after these conversations I'm feeling fairly dejected at this point and to be honest really don't know what to do.

If I add a second Baer 112, then the idea of mixing cabs is out. The way you're suggesting I get what I want is to use two ML112s at once. While that may be a grand idea and work quite well, it makes me re-write the entire plan.

Like I said, feeling quite lost at this point.

I suppose I could do the whole "return policy thing" with the 2x10 idea ... but I really ... REALLY ... dislike exploiting return policies and using them as "rental agreements". But in my case (living in a remote area) I amy be forced to do just that.

Thinking .. thinking ...

First, subs are hard to implement in a bass rig. Different efficiency, and should be lo passed to work well. Too much trouble IMO, and you don't really want those sub bass freq's in a stage rig anyway for the most part.

The whole thing about 'mixing' cabs is that, as Tom said, it could sound great and give you just what you want, or it could be an unbalanced mess, with different efficiencies, strange peaks, etc. There really is no way of knowing before hand.

The only 'sure thing' is that if you add an identical cab, it will sound pretty much like the single cab, with a noticeably bigger low end, and a lot more volume.

To your point, I never use two cabs, but have various one cab solutions that all sound different, and are of different sizes, depending on the gig I'm playing. So, I get what you are trying to do, and I also understand being on a budget!

Unfortunately, no-one (IMO) can give you a better answer than Tom did, since it is pure guess work until you've actually hooked up two very different cabs and tried them out.

I'd save my pennies for 6 months and get another Baer

 

[Flux Jetson]

Thanks for the concise and illuminated answer KJung. I'm glad you understand what I'm aiming at. I use an extensive filtering system made up of modular synthesizer filters that are multi-modal, I was hoping to augment their abilities as well as be able to exploit their strengths by using different cabs to produce different sounds.

This is a little confusing ....."(to get two different sounds) since it is pure guess work until you've actually hooked up two very different cabs and tried them out. I'd save my pennies for 6 months and get another Baer"....

So .... get two different cabs, or get two of the same cabs? Haahaa.

I have some thinking to get done, and more research as well, that much is certain. Thanks for the help, it certainly gave me more to chew on.

I may take the chance and risk having to exploit a return policy .... I would probably always 2nd guess myself if I don't try out this one idea I have.

Best wishes.

 

[ahc]

Flux... FYI, last time I looked there was an ML112 in the classifieds for a really good price.

Usual Disclaimer: No, not mine, and I have no connection to it. Other than trying to keep my hands off until the ML115 appears. (I want a 1 cab solution).

 

[Flux Jetson]

Flux... FYI, last time I looked there was an ML112 in the classifieds for a really good price.

Usual Disclaimer: No, not mine, and I have no connection to it. Other than trying to keep my hands off until the ML115 appears. (I want a 1 cab solution).

Thanks.

I've found "one cab solutions" many many times, even owned a few ... until I change my mind and then the problem reasserts itself.

I've found the answer to the one cab solution is to never change your needs ... but that is pretty much out of the question as long as we remain human.

Perfection can never be attained, as long as time exists. Time is evidence of change, and as long as things change, perfection is only perfect for a fleeting second. The instant things change what was perfect is no longer perfect.

So in my little world, the best way to obtain the one cab solution is to have several cabs along with very flexible tonal shaping gear. THAT is the only perfect solution .. something that will flex with the changes. One cab cannot do that .. maybe two cabs can, as long as the tone shapers in front of it are flexible enough (preamps and other such tone shapers).

But I don't think there is such a thing as The Silver Bullet Cab. Not as long as a human being is using it. Well, that is unless one remains in a cave and sequesters one's self away from any and all things musical. But as long as you subject yourself to the influences that time impose on you, "one cab" will never do. That is, unless you cease to grow.

 

[astack]

But I don't think there is such a thing as The Silver Bullet Cab. Not as long as a human being is using it. Well, that is unless one remains in a cave and sequesters one's self away from any and all things musical. But as long as you subject yourself to the influences that time impose on you, "one cab" will never do. That is, unless you cease to grow.

Or never read Talk Bass. I had a perfect setup for 6 years before I signed up here...

 

[ahc]

Thanks.

I've found "one cab solutions" many many times, even owned a few ... until I change my mind and then the problem reasserts itself.

I've found the answer to the one cab solution is to never change your needs ... but that is pretty much out of the question as long as we remain human.

Perfection can never be attained, as long as time exists. Time is evidence of change, and as long as things change, perfection is only perfect for a fleeting second. The instant things change what was perfect is no longer perfect.

So in my little world, the best way to obtain the one cab solution is to have several cabs along with very flexible tonal shaping gear. THAT is the only perfect solution .. something that will flex with the changes. One cab cannot do that .. maybe two cabs can, as long as the tone shapers in front of it are flexible enough (preamps and other such tone shapers).

But I don't think there is such a thing as The Silver Bullet Cab. Not as long as a human being is using it. Well, that is unless one remains in a cave and sequesters one's self away from any and all things musical. But as long as you subject yourself to the influences that time impose on you, "one cab" will never do. That is, unless you cease to grow.

Well, I'm coming from the "I play one-nighters" school which makes me a "cash and carry" kinda guy. I want the most possible cash for the least possible amount of stuff I gotta carry. Not looking to do a mix-and-match thing that I did as a kid. Never really worked as well as I'd hoped and I was probably too dumb to know the difference. Then again, I never had the bucks to have top notch revolving gear either. When I eventually could, I'd buy something good and hang on to it. And now my 62 year old, titanium enhanced back wants to hoss around as little as possible.

While I think an ML112 or other "super twelve" might do a large majority of my gigs, I'd prefer to err on the "got it covered" side with something a bit larger, nearly as portable, and equally great sounding. In the end I think it'll come down to a choice between the TC115 and the ML115. Can't make that decision until they're both available and I know more about 'em. Till then I'll cart my now ancient one or two 2-10 cabs or combo amp as necessary. I agree there's no perfect silver bullet, but I believe I can have a one cab solution and come pretty close. And yeah, the "next great thing" will probably come down the road in a year or three, but I'm not too worried about that.

 

[ahc]

Or never read Talk Bass. I had a perfect setup for 6 years before I signed up here...

+1

 

[mwbassace]

I recently got a BFM Jack 12, with 12 piezo's (2 sets of 6 @ 90° w/on-off switch, no L-pad). I'm looking at getting a ML112 & wondering if these 2 will play well together. If so, any suggestions on how to pair them? By the way, thanks ahc I'm probably buying that ML112 thats for sale.

 

[rpsands]

Mixing cabs bad. No do.

 

[mwbassace]

Even with both cabs being 12's it's not a good idea? What if the Jack's piezo's are turned off and it's just the Jack's Deltalite 12 paired with the ML112? Still bad? Cause unless the guy won't sell to me that ML112 for sale is mine. Even if it shouldn't be paired with my Jack.

 

[bongomania]

Mixing cabs bad. No do.

Mixing cabs can be totally fine. The keys are to either "get lucky" with a combo that just happens to sound good together, or use science to predict a good match.

"Mix bad" only applies when both luck and science are against you.