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Barefaced Bass 'BIG TWIN' ... lets talk about it...

#101
pablomigraine said:
The Big Twin is more expensive. Many of the FF's I've seen have (IMHO) poor fit & finish such as shabby grille fixtures, uneven lines and general 'homebrew' look to them.
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Don't confuse the DIYer stuff with the authorized builders, who all have "take returns or make it right" policy and who seem to be doing great jobs at factory looks. I have had problems with only one builder, and it was the cause of suspension - and later, review and auditing of his more current build practices got him reinstated, along with his pledge to build new cabs for the older customers who had problems.

Also realize that composite building is a little more bleeding edge, and that a lot of the looks you see out there are the customer's choices - there is customization available, and what turns on one customer may hurt the eye of another ; }

Speaking of customization, shelf extension tunings, different padding and switching options, are all available as well as the cosmetic stuff.
 
#102
I decided years ago after nearly driving myself nuts paying too much attention to specs and science, that I would always and only let my ears be the judge and, if that were not possible, let the ears of those few people who's opinions and experience I trust stand in their place.
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Then you must A/B them side-by-side or speak with people you trust who have. But if Alex and greenboy haven’t even A/Bed I think its going to be a hard task - good luck.
 
#103
As to fit & finish, there are a few things to keep in mind.

Many of the cabs ARE homebrew, with varying levels of both skill and "care/don't care" applied to that end.

Even with the authorised builders, customers will make choices of that sort that aren't other folks' cup o tea.

Lastly... do not underestimate good photography. A quick snapshot with consumer gear by a complete amateur is no match for a pro shoot with pro gear and proper lighting.

Take mine for example... professionally built. Immaculate, really. The match or better of anything I've ever seen. (Impressive, considering I'm pretty sure it was his first fEARful build order.) The only possible improvement I can think of would be flush mounting of handles/jackplate, and guess what... he does that now.

But my pictures suck. And I don't have the time, gear, or inclination to get pro photos taken of it. My camera isn't bad, but I could take a picture of a dead on builder's square and it'd probably still come out looking crooked. :p
 
#104
greenboy said:
Don't confuse the DIYer stuff with the authorized builders, who all have "take returns or make it right" policy and who seem to be doing great jobs at factory looks. I have had problems with only one builder, and it was the cause of suspension - and later, review and auditing of his more current build practices got him reinstated, along with his pledge to build new cabs for the older customers who had problems.

Also realize that composite building is a little more bleeding edge, and that a lot of the looks you see out there are the customer's choices - there is customization available, and what turns on one customer may hurt the eye of another ; }

Speaking of customization, shelf extension tunings, different padding and switching options, are all available as well as the cosmetic stuff.
Click to expand...

The two jankiest looking ones I've seen were both from an authorized builder....and the problems evident looked more like poor planning and sloppy execution than customization .... especially in terms of grille materials and fixtures. However many of the others I've seen look quite well done...
 
#105
makohund said:
As to fit & finish, there are a few things to keep in mind.

Many of the cabs ARE homebrew, with varying levels of both skill and "care/don't care" applied to that end.

Even with the authorised builders, customers will make choices of that sort that aren't other folks' cup o tea.

Lastly... do not underestimate good photography. A quick snapshot with consumer gear by a complete amateur is no match for a pro shoot with pro gear and proper lighting.

Take mine for example... professionally built. Immaculate, really. The match or better of anything I've ever seen. (Impressive, considering I'm pretty sure it was his first fEARful build order.) The only possible improvement I can think of would be flush mounting of handles/jackplate, and guess what... he does that now.

But my pictures suck. And I don't have the time, gear, or inclination to get pro photos taken of it. My camera isn't bad, but I could take a picture of a dead on builder's square and it'd probably still come out looking crooked. :p
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Cell phone pics FTW :bassist:
 
#107
Truth is, Alex used to take a lot of heat for fit and finish. I always felt it was unfair, a lot of it based on people who really were more uncomfortable with his deviation from standard cab configs and using different handle types and stuff like that. Some of them also seemed to be agenda-driven people rather than those who actually were trying to be constructive.

Some of them actually seemed to want to make his enterprise fail or at least make him feel bad. I sure hope he doesn't go through that now.

Right now you have me considering hanging it all up. Be proud of yourself, Joe.
 
#108
:( Don’t give up greenboy - to be fair, unlike the OP I’ve never seen a bad looking official fEARful either.

EDIT: My purpose here is to help those that I can and to learn from people like you. I don’t have anything to sell or any hidden agenda.

I understand only sharing in depth details with your inter circle and not on an open forum like TB because of competition - but as someone here learning like myself you must understand I want you guys to let all the smoke of the box.

EDIT, EDIT: You too Alex, I know it must be rough - don’t give up.
 
#110
greenboy said:
Truth is, Alex used to take a lot of heat for fit and finish. I always felt it was unfair, a lot of it based on people who really were more uncomfortable with his deviation from standard cab configs and using different handle types and stuff like that. Some of them also seemed to be agenda-driven people rather than those who actually were trying to be constructive.

Some of them actually seemed to want to make his enterprise fail or at least make him feel bad. I sure hope he doesn't go through that now.

Right now you have me considering hanging it all up. Be proud of yourself, Joe.
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I hope you're being facetious man. I really admire your designs. If someone made a more affordable 1515/66T there'd be no discussion. Both of the poor-looking ones Ive seen... the issues were; really shabby-looking grilles (just a piece of chickenwire secured to the enclosure with doublestick tape or even worse, vecro strips from JoAnne Fabrics.... not to sleight the folks who have these, if it works for you great... but for me I'm not interested in a cab that looks like I built it in my basement with a home-depot grille and lots of vibrating, rattling hardware. The second issue is what looks like panels and parts that are uneven... like thicker in one spot and thinner in another.... this may have been an early try from one of the builders who uses alternative materials... this same one looked like the bottom driver overhangs onto the shelf port and part of that piece of wood was shaved off to accomodate the driver's mounting ring.

To me, there's a certain appeal to buying a completed piece from a company, although it's a fallacy... the process is the same for the FF....

Honestly I'm not interested in any fancy space-age construction materials or customization. A plywood cab is fine by me.... in fact I feel better about it because of several bad experiences with "cutting-edge" stuff. I've considered building it myself .... meaning buying the drivers (which I can obtain for wholesale and for probably a better price than some of the authorized builders) and commissioning a local carpenter or cabinetry person to construct the unit. Honestly the only thing that stops me from doing that is that I want a Tolex cabinet. I have seen bladder-emptying DISASTERS result from so called "experienced" people doing backyard tolex jobs. I have yet to see a single one turn out anything but awful of the 3 people I know who've tried it. The way I figure it, I could obtain all the materials needed for a 1515/66T for well less than $1,000... and I know a handful of qualified woodsmen who would put the thing together for $200. But the whole tolex thing seems a nightmare.... even if I found someone local who could convince me they could do it well enough... then we're into a weeks long process (only get one day off a week) and the whole thing ceases to be worthwhile. So we're left with Authorized FF builders, or Barefaced Bass.

So, unless there's an authorized builder who offers a 1515/66T for $1500 out the door, we're again back to the FF 1212/6T or the Big Twin. The Big Twin wins out on looks and ease of procurement. The FF wins out in the price department (at least from the 2 builders I've spoken to.)

I really hadnt intended to turn this thread into a BFB Vs. FF thread, as I really think I'm gonna go for the BFB Big Twin. I'm going to continue the search for someone who will build me a 1515/66T for $1500 and if I can't find one.... it's Big Twin for me.

I will pop back into the thread with any updates.... but lets keep the thread going with any input, experience, reviews or thoughts on the Barefaced Bass BIG TWIN.
 
#111
pablomigraine said:
really shabby-looking grilles (just a piece of chickenwire secured to the enclosure with doublestick tape or even worse, vecro strips from JoAnne Fabrics
Click to expand...

Wow, don't think I've seen that one.

a home-depot grille and lots of vibrating, rattling hardware
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I would agree, not to mention it would render the cab non-functional. The fEARfuls put out so hard that usually very particular attention is paid to details like that, because anything that can rattle or vibrate definitely will. Big time. Anything loose = cab is unusable.

That said, I don't recall seeing any like that, either.

The second issue is what looks like panels and parts that are uneven... like thicker in one spot and thinner in another
Click to expand...

You sure? Unless very seriously out of whack, that is the sort of thing I mean when talking about camera snapshots vs pro photos.

this same one looked like the bottom driver overhangs onto the shelf port and part of that piece of wood was shaved off to accomodate the driver's mounting ring.
Click to expand...

One thing to note looking at the plans, cutouts in any grill mounting strips to accommodate the drivers (whether the mounting rings would overlap them or not) are part of the design. Perhaps that was what you were seeing.

Anyway, good luck. And can't go wrong with either cab, really. Just what you describe doesn't sound like any fEARful cab I can remember seeing, and I've seen a lot of 'em.
 
#113
My 1515/66 is hilariously shabby looking. The grille is gonna get replaced at some point. I'm not really that concerned with appearance of my cabinet though. It does the job and took the amount of effort I felt like giving to make.
 
#116
Both Alex and GB have referred to the T-line as either no advantage or a disadvantage. This all depends on what you are trying to do - if you want to make a reflex design predictable then it could be considered a disadvantage and would increase the amount of prototypes you may need to build and test.

However, my results show that the use of a long port as a T-line in an otherwise "reflex" based design can improve the overall response of the speaker, reduce distortion as the cone moves less (more work from the port over the wider frequency range) and is robust to different "scales" of speaker project. A T-line alone is not robust as it relys on the the length and taper charateristics alone to create the tuning.

Get it is right and you end up with a very smooth and deep response from a volume which is smaller than average and a better group delay than a reflex. Get it wrong and you end up with a one note bass effect with very high output at 1 frequency!

For me, the side mounted vertical ports cannot be an advantage to my system as I cannot easily fit in the length required for a T-line type tuning combined with a reflex. I therefore am using the lower horizontal port output only which gives me more flexibility, raises the height of the cones for better audibility and being a "vented" design, when pushed hard there should be enough air movement for cooling anyway.

In summary - a good design will have various arrangements which will be a small variation on each other. ie the GB and Barefaced designs still have a lot in common and work well for reflex designs. The differences are mechanical, slight voicing and USP. no reason to criticise either - they are both good.
 
#117
pablomigraine said:
Both of the poor-looking ones Ive seen... the issues were; really shabby-looking grilles (just a piece of chickenwire secured to the enclosure with doublestick tape or even worse, vecro strips from JoAnne Fabrics.... not to sleight the folks who have these, if it works for you great... but for me I'm not interested in a cab that looks like I built it in my basement with a home-depot grille and lots of vibrating, rattling hardware. The second issue is what looks like panels and parts that are uneven... like thicker in one spot and thinner in another.... this may have been an early try from one of the builders who uses alternative materials... this same one looked like the bottom driver overhangs onto the shelf port and part of that piece of wood was shaved off to accomodate the driver's mounting ring.
Click to expand...

I would like to see these - got any links...?
 
#118
IMAG0446.jpg


Here's my hideous abomination
 
#120
Looking at that one... hey, I bet that's one of the ones he didn't like.

Based on description of grill attachment and the woofer/port boundary, at least.

That doesn't look like no chickenwire, though. Looks like maybe the same perf aluminum as mine (mine is powdercoated black, can't tell that much on that one from the pic).
 

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