Bass Players are Their Own Worst Enemy!

[Drucifer]

This thread has motivated me to bring the SVT-CL and 810 to my gig Saturday, it's outdoor so I was on the fence. Both head and cab are in flight cases, and I need to get a buddy with a truck to help, but I am not a wussie.

 

[AlexBassMP]

Totally disagree, as I already mentioned in previous posts, in some scenes giant heavy rigs are part of the show. No one wants to hear/see a doom band playing through small rigs. They are not only part of the sound but also the visual. the DI thing is complete BS in my experience. I always bring a mic with me and insist on using it. In the last 10 years I have never had a FOH engineer refuse. I have never used a DI live.

I'm a DI guy (I use a Sansamp Bass Driver Deluxe and I've never had a FOH engineer complaining about it ) but you're right .. in some scenes people expect to see big amps.

I love my big rig which I use in my rehearsal place but when it's time to load in for a gig I try to go lighter..

 

[Rip Van Dan]

I don't lug around an SVT fridge because the 410 I have (DNS-410) is lighter, louder, and clearer. It also sounds great when playing at low levels. There's no minimum level it needs to reach to sound good. It's not really a light cabinet at 79-lbs and the 800-watt Eden amp I use is another 26-lbs without the rack, so it's not really a light set up, but it's nothing like a Hammond B3 and Lesslie. But I only bring the one cab now instead of the two that I used to lug around and it gives me the sound I like regardless of where I play it. So I'll put up with the 100+-lbs of weight to get the sound I like everywhere I play...and YES, I'm an old fart!

 

[InnerBass]

Just diversify - works for me

 

[lowfreqgeek]

One size does not fit all.

 

[BooDoggie]

Well... I certainly didn't intend to upset everyone so much. When I wrote this post, truthfully, I thought I was making good points that some of you might appreciate

I don't get it either... When I played regularly I carried my rack case with two preamps and a 200 watt power amp. I used a large heavy 4x10 and a folding table to set it on for a while before I got my Ampeg 8x10 fridge. I never worried about how much it weighed. I only worried about how well it sounded...

 

[ghostinthemach]

65 here. Gigging since 16.
I've had and even re-acquired just recently some large semi-heavy vintage tube and solid state gear just because the lightweight gear I had slowly migrated to left a lot of certain tones behind.
I now play with a few bands doing classic rock and even vintage rock (my term) from 50's-70. It's infinitely easier to get the vintage tones out of vintage amp designs DUH.
I still have the modern gear and feel equipped for any situation.
I do consider myself a collector as well as a player.
Here's a partial of my inventory:

I've since replaced the Peavey 2x15 with a much older and lighter Acoustic 406 wide and also acquired a 330 head. An Acoustic 402 is winging its way to me as I write this.

 

[brianrost]

It's a whopping 10 dB down at 40 Hz - practically inaudible.

Well if everything else is cranking along at over 100dB, then 40hZ at a mere 90dB would still be audible...just buried under the upper harmonics. Don't leave those earplugs at home, boys!

 

[scuzzy]

The main nugget I'm getting out of this thread....I really gotta try a mesa d800+ and/or the new genzler through a top shelf 2x12 cab. Not that I'm unhappy with my current rigs....I just gotta find a place to put all this money I'm making!

 

[Stumbo]

My Super Bassman and two 4x10 cabs is the loudest rig on the butt of the planet.
I don't actually have a Bassman an 2 4xs. Just wanted to say , butt of the planet.

I'd love having the rig you have though.
Top one or two on my, if I ever needed a big bad arse rig, list.

OGB...funny guy!

 

[ThinCrappyTone]

I always bring a mic with me and insist on using it. In the last 10 years I have never had a FOH engineer refuse. I have never used a DI live.

Yeah, doom is it's own animal for sure, and probably outside the realm of what I'm talking about. Though I would venture to guess that some of those soundmen you refer to just don't feel like arguing with you. A lot of the soundmen I've encountered would be like "Sure sure, I'll use your mic" then just mute your channel in FOH. Especially if they're house soundmen who run a lot of different bands, and aren't particularly down with the doom.

Used to happen a lot to ultra-loud metal bands back in the day. Every band had two guitarists playing through 100 watt tube stacks, ridiculously loud. If they were friendly with you, they'd tell you straight; "If you don't turn your stage volume down, I'm not putting you through the mains". And if they weren't, they wouldn't bother to tell you, and just mute you anyway.

Of course all bets are off if you are well known and can dictate special requests, or if it's your own soundman, or somebody that loves and understands the doom. But most soundmen just aren't that accommodating, in my experience.

 

[Jeremy Jones]

I do have to say looking at those big old rigs is Fun
the biggest Ampeg amp ever!? (NAMM 04).

 

[stringthrough]

All equipment is getting lighter. A 15lbs Nord properly patched can sound 98% as good as a massive Hammond. Electronic drums, while they may not sound as "real" (whatever that is) as real drums, can with the turn of a knob sound approximately like a metal kit, jazz kit, latin kit, etc. Thy're also incredibly easy to amplify and balance through a PA.

If you want to squeeze the last 2-5% of "realism" out of your gear by carrying heavy, cumbersome gear, be my guest. Many of us are living in 2018 and are happy to take advantage of the miniaturization and convenience of modern gear.

 

[tycobb73]

I play bass and keys in a band. I use a roland ds61 which ways 10ish lbs. So therefore unlike you my bass gear, 2 Schroeder 110L, is heavier than my keys gear. And the audience will leave with hearing in tact.

 

[Sparkl]

Mesa D800. The low mids in that head do very, very good things.

I knew that someone would bring that amp on the table.

Yes it is a fine head, but you can't compare it to a bassman or an svt. Had one on test and it sounded great and yet sounded more boring compared to the bassman. Bassman had way more harmonic material in its voice, also the low end was much more rounded in comparison.

It is one of the best class d amps though.

 

[Sparkl]

Vacuum tubes are actually faster switching than solid state devices. Or so I've read

Yeah I'm not a technician so I can only comment on what I hear/feel and tube amps to me sound more "lazy" compared to most ss amps.

What I mean by lazy is that there is a nice prolonged "sound decay" when you stop the note which makes for a nice, "lazy" tone which really sings.

The decay is not super long but it's there, just enough to male the sound sound less stiff somehow.

 

[Hundred proof]

Ok ... I've been beat over the head enough, new school is always beats old school, basses are better and the new amps are smaller, have more range and are way more powerful ... same with cabs more of everything but weight it seems. Here is the thing though ... I don't play loud music, in some passages we break down so low you can hear people talking in the clubs we play. The amp of choice for most guitar players is a 22 watt Fender Deluxe, my neplusultra amp for those on stage conventions is a 50 year old Sunn 200s with matching 2x15 cab @ 70 glorious watts give me 98% of that sound and feel in a new tech lightweight, and I'm all in.

 

[rodl2005]

Is it at all weird that the only people in your band concerned about FOH reinforcement is you and the kick drum?

Not near in my case, many and the band care about the front of house sound.... that's how we sound to the punters.... why SHOULDN'T they?
Sure, some care less than others, but I think that's just coz they're lazy. If they DIDN'T care, why do it at all? Might as well play in the garage with mates and not bother to log your gear to n from the club

Depends on the gig of course.

I sometimes run my own PA and caring for the FOH is something I take pride in. Our guitarist is the same, so's ..the sax, so's the singers.

 

[bassboysam]

Yeah, doom is it's own animal for sure, and probably outside the realm of what I'm talking about. Though I would venture to guess that some of those soundmen you refer to just don't feel like arguing with you. A lot of the soundmen I've encountered would be like "Sure sure, I'll use your mic" then just mute your channel in FOH. Especially if they're house soundmen who run a lot of different bands, and aren't particularly down with the doom.

Used to happen a lot to ultra-loud metal bands back in the day. Every band had two guitarists playing through 100 watt tube stacks, ridiculously loud. If they were friendly with you, they'd tell you straight; "If you don't turn your stage volume down, I'm not putting you through the mains". And if they weren't, they wouldn't bother to tell you, and just mute you anyway.

Of course all bets are off if you are well known and can dictate special requests, or if it's your own soundman, or somebody that loves and understands the doom. But most soundmen just aren't that accommodating, in my experience.

agreed i have been lucky. all the foh guys have been awesome to work with over the past 10 years. they seem to genuinely like what we do.

edit: i should mention there was never any hint of argument. i simply ask if we can mic the cab. my explanation is that i use a good amount of fuzz/OD and feedback is also a big part of the sound neither of which a DI captures well. it also helps that i always offer the use of my mic.

 

[Stumbo]

I play bass and keys in a band. I use a roland ds61 which ways 10ish lbs. So therefore unlike you my bass gear, 2 Schroeder 110L, is heavier than my keys gear. And the audience will leave with hearing in tact.

Been gigging since 12 y.o., 65 this year.

Still have my big iron Sunn amps/2x15 cabs. Plus several other: 4x10 Sunn, 6x10 Sunn, 1x15Also have an Acoustic 150/6x10 guitar cab that I've also used for bass. And in the den, a 15w tube Alamo 1x15 (replacement Big Ben 225w guitar speaker). My Broughton always-on HPF that arrived today should allow me to use pretty much any rig for bass, at different volumes of course.

Recently jamming with buds in various rented studios with various backlines. With my active, 3-band Ibanez Musician P/J, pick or pluck, palm mute and bridge foam, I can get a more than acceptable FOH tone with any amp provided. Since I've done sound for several bands over the years, I listen to our group, or any group for that matter, as a sound "guy". This helps me set my bass in the mix at the venue rather than try to get "my tone".

Lots of choices these days. Whatever works FOH(neo,non-neo), IMO, should be the main goal besides having fun.

And, until recently, according to my wife (perfect relative pitch, human juke box), the bass is not part of the melody or vocals so it's just there to be felt and support the rest of the band. Now she says I ruined live music for her because she can pick out all the parts of the mix and what instrument is sounding good or not.

It's all good if you're playing at home or out.
Bottom line, it's music!