you are hardly in the position of attempting to give me life lessons. i've been doing pretty much everything i do every minute of the day longer than you've been alive.
In that case it couldn't hurt to have a fresh perspective on something?
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Basses Using Counterfeit Fender headstock decals
- Thread starter john turner
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In that case it couldn't hurt to have a fresh perspective on something?
It's *counterfeit*
So that's why the spell checker kept correcting "counterfitting" to "counter fittting".
Thanks!
are they turning around and selling them as new instruments? no? then why is this even being mentioned here?
not even close. the process of pursuing individuals who are violating trademarks/copyrights costs "x" amount of dollars. pursuing a single individual guilty of a single personal infraction, without immediate promise of gain, stands a much lesser chance of successful, net-positive outcome for the copyright/trademark holder than pursuing an individual selling multiple counterfeit instruments.
again, are was certain (pardon the pun) that this guy is not licenced to do this? might all be a moot point.
bongomania
Commercial User
I think that's true in the US too. Cover bands are not breaking any laws as long as the venue has paid its licensing fees.
Also re: the argument that "surely FMIC would want to know about the hundreds of individuals putting Fender logos on their SX's", I don't buy it. There is no profit in pursuing individual one-time offenders at this scale. It becomes more of a plausible concern when the offenses are multiple, when the offender is in the business-for-profit of doing so, or when there's a lot of money at stake. Certain appears to meet the first two of those, unless he is licensed by Fender.
There is a difference of scale between putting a Fender logo on an SX and earning money from basses with a Fender logo. Both are wrong, but the second issue is much "wronger"
. I don't see anything double-standard here.Nothing can be done with people that want to "rename" their own basses, even though it's wrong legally and morally IMO (I'm happy when people praise my Cort jazz, and would be proud to astonish a fellow musitian with an SX)
On the other hand, a guy that does that officialy and for money; it's only a matter of time before he's sued. Rickenbacker would've sued him a long time ago.
Sorry to stray from the debate here, but are there any sound clips of the OP's bass? What kind of PU's does Certain use?
THANK YOU to John Turner, and all of the other good people in this thread that know right from wrong and aren't afraid to say something.
This is BS. Sorry to the guy that bought the bass and started the thread, but this is some real BS.
I am a guy who has a small collection of Fender basses. At this point, I only plan to ever buy used Fender basses. As a guy who buys used Fender basses, there is no question why this is WRONG.
The ridiculous "21 fret Fender neck". The post from an old thread where this counterfieter acknowledges that putting a fender decal on a cheapie neck is wrong. The current customer who says that this "builder" will only put a Fender decal on one of his cheap "builds" if the customer asks for it?
This thread is full of damning evidence and this guys should be run out of the bass world. Wrong. Good catch guys!
This is BS. Sorry to the guy that bought the bass and started the thread, but this is some real BS.
I am a guy who has a small collection of Fender basses. At this point, I only plan to ever buy used Fender basses. As a guy who buys used Fender basses, there is no question why this is WRONG.
The ridiculous "21 fret Fender neck". The post from an old thread where this counterfieter acknowledges that putting a fender decal on a cheapie neck is wrong. The current customer who says that this "builder" will only put a Fender decal on one of his cheap "builds" if the customer asks for it?
This thread is full of damning evidence and this guys should be run out of the bass world. Wrong. Good catch guys!
again, i ask, are we sure that mr. certain doesn't have a license to do this?
he may be licensed by fender, or using licensed fender parts. i don't know that he isn't - would be pretty lame to crucify him if he were.
on the other hand, if he's not, then what he's doing is pretty crummy.
he may be licensed by fender, or using licensed fender parts. i don't know that he isn't - would be pretty lame to crucify him if he were.
on the other hand, if he's not, then what he's doing is pretty crummy.
i agree its wrong to misrepresent the bass as something its not, but everyone seems to feel real strongly about this.. i dont see what the big deal is. yes, i understand its illigal and fender has every right to persue this if they wanted too.. but does everyone that posted here work for fender or something? im a lot more concerned with the guy buying it getting a half decent instrument, than i am with the builder getting caught.
and whats with the used market arguement..? when you looked at the picture, you knew it wasent a real fender neck. if not right away, you were able to figure it out under closer inspection, right? then anyone considering buying it would know if it was fake- and if they diddnt, then isint it just as good as a fender and theyre not really being harmed all that greatly?
i really hope it turns out to be a good instrument.. or better yet, we find out that he is licensed by fender.. (or both..)
and whats with the used market arguement..? when you looked at the picture, you knew it wasent a real fender neck. if not right away, you were able to figure it out under closer inspection, right? then anyone considering buying it would know if it was fake- and if they diddnt, then isint it just as good as a fender and theyre not really being harmed all that greatly?
i really hope it turns out to be a good instrument.. or better yet, we find out that he is licensed by fender.. (or both..)
I'll be honest - no, I didn't catch it right away. As soon as somebody else pointed it out, I slapped my forehead.
Remember - when I'm looking at a used bass in a pawn shop, I don't have hundreds of Talkbass Fender fanaitics with me pointing out everything they see. In a real world used market situation, I'm on my own and more likely to get burned.
I'll stay tuned to see if this bass seller has a license with Fender to do this type of thing before making any more comments. (but I can't imagine Fender licensing anyone to put Fender decals on non-Fender necks)
A few years ago I needed a replacement neck for a Fender AVS '62 J bass. The local Fender authorized repair shop and I had to jump through a few hoops for the shop to obtain it and install it, but along the way I did find out that Fender doesn't license builders of instruments to use Fender trademarks such as the headstock decal on new instruments. If they're repairing or restoring a bona fide Fender instrument (Fender decides what's bona fide or not) and are a Fender authorized repair center and go through the hoops, then...maybe.
Also, only a few builders of aftermarket necks are licensed to manufacture and sell necks with a Fender trademarked headstock shape, but that does not include the rights to any trademarked decal or logo.
Also, only a few builders of aftermarket necks are licensed to manufacture and sell necks with a Fender trademarked headstock shape, but that does not include the rights to any trademarked decal or logo.
Disclaimer on his eBay listings :
"Please note: Fender is a trademark of the Fender Musical Instrument Company (FMIC). This term as well as other trademarks are used in my listings for comparison only and to identify the parts I use in my products, and this is in accordance with eBay policy and trademark law. FMIC claims a plethora of trademarks including the capital letter F (I'm just waiting for them to claim the trademark on the morning sunrise). Do not confuse my basses with those made by Fender, my customers say mine are better instruments. Fender makes some exceptional instruments today. But, my basses are made by my hands as opposed to robots, and set up by a working, accomplished, professional bassist (me) as opposed to an hourly employee in a hurry like the questionable instruments you find in music stores. My personal attachment to vintage Fenders is a combination of romance and investment. I respect the current Fender Musical Instrument Company for attempting to continue Leo Fender's legacy; they are a very good American company. I have loved and played Fender instruments for most of my life. No one is more responsible for the sound and tone of American music than Leo Fender from his guitars, amps and basses to the Fender Rhodes electric piano sound still prevalent in the modern synthesizers of today. There is at least a little Leo Fender design in every electric bass made."
"Please note: Fender is a trademark of the Fender Musical Instrument Company (FMIC). This term as well as other trademarks are used in my listings for comparison only and to identify the parts I use in my products, and this is in accordance with eBay policy and trademark law. FMIC claims a plethora of trademarks including the capital letter F (I'm just waiting for them to claim the trademark on the morning sunrise). Do not confuse my basses with those made by Fender, my customers say mine are better instruments. Fender makes some exceptional instruments today. But, my basses are made by my hands as opposed to robots, and set up by a working, accomplished, professional bassist (me) as opposed to an hourly employee in a hurry like the questionable instruments you find in music stores. My personal attachment to vintage Fenders is a combination of romance and investment. I respect the current Fender Musical Instrument Company for attempting to continue Leo Fender's legacy; they are a very good American company. I have loved and played Fender instruments for most of my life. No one is more responsible for the sound and tone of American music than Leo Fender from his guitars, amps and basses to the Fender Rhodes electric piano sound still prevalent in the modern synthesizers of today. There is at least a little Leo Fender design in every electric bass made."
when this thread showed up, i read every post, and have followed it through what everyone has to say. i originally had no stance but the more i think about it, the more irritating it is. i have no problems with what anyone has to say or anyones point of view or anything, that is all fine and good.
HOWEVER, what i do have a problem with, is that this thread started as one with a guy proud of his new toy and wanting to show it off a bit (which we all do), and it has disintegrated into a certainbass flame fest. i have no vested interest in the company or the products he is offering, nor will i accuse him of anything. what i will say however, is that it is extremely unfair to the op. you guys want to discuss or rip on certainbass/his business practices? fine, but open another thread and let the op have his moment. no need to piss in his cheerios with this kind of derailment in his thread.
op enjoy your new bass.
HOWEVER, what i do have a problem with, is that this thread started as one with a guy proud of his new toy and wanting to show it off a bit (which we all do), and it has disintegrated into a certainbass flame fest. i have no vested interest in the company or the products he is offering, nor will i accuse him of anything. what i will say however, is that it is extremely unfair to the op. you guys want to discuss or rip on certainbass/his business practices? fine, but open another thread and let the op have his moment. no need to piss in his cheerios with this kind of derailment in his thread.
op enjoy your new bass.
+1 Like I said before, OP, let's hear some sound clips and fresh pics when you get it in. I think it's a neat looking bass.
Personally, I feel that putting Fender decals on instruments which aren't Fenders is deplorable.
I hope that the OP really enjoys his bass, but changes the decal when he gets it. If I had a bass which I knew wasn't a Fender and it had the Fender logo on it, I'd replace it.
If having "Fender" on the bass means that much, just go buy and modify real one!
I hope that the OP really enjoys his bass, but changes the decal when he gets it. If I had a bass which I knew wasn't a Fender and it had the Fender logo on it, I'd replace it.
If having "Fender" on the bass means that much, just go buy and modify real one!
Yeah, the neck just looks wrong with that headstock shape, 21 fretlines and the Fender decal.
i've actually reached out to the folks at fender, to get their official take on something like this.
so we'll see what they have to say about it.i'm actually curious what the official stance on something like this is.
Wow.
Seems the board might be taking a turn towards the Rickenbacker-esque. I'll watch future developments with interest...
Yes, but Mr Sadowsky thinks it's perfectly acceptable to just about mimic the overall Fender style?
When you see a Sadowski on T.V. and it's hard to make out,
what comes to mind first for most people is Fender.
When a prosepective buyer does his research and discovers it's a Sad, who get's the business, Fender or Sadowski?
They are excellent instruments and I love them both, but Sadowski and Lakland have been making money off Fenders IMAGE for a long time now.
Where is the moral line drawn? On a decal or an obvious body knock-off?
FWIW, I'm nuetral but just wanted to make what I thought was a good point.
Well, for what it's worth, Fender owns the copyright on the logo and the name, they own the patent and copyright on the headstock shape but they waited way too long and DO NOT own the rights to the body shape.
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