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Bergantino HS410

#81
funkydanbass said:
That's a real shame Dave. I thought that this cab purchase was going to be **IT** for you. Let me know if you decide to sell the UL420 S1... I'd love to check it out.
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yeah, it does sound great, and i have the Thunderfunk Eq to pull mids out but it was just more than i expected. Its weird, i loved remos ul410 Serie1 that i tried at the GTG with my amp and bass - different rooms. I never like the sound of my rig at home though. I just wonder if i want something a little more neutral - the Series2 will give me that. Dunno if it's much of a muchness - pulling mids out of the series1 or adding them back into the series2... Ha. more reports after the gig
 
#82
Mr_Dave said:
Just bumping this old thread of mine. I ended up recently picking up a 2nd hand Epifani ul410 series 1. I'm not sure about the forward upper mids with my middy Tfunk and rosewood/alder bass - i'm trying it on a regular saturday night gig this week so its a room i've played a lot before... I might end up selling it for a ul410 series 2... The light weight sure is great with the Epifani's... I tried a Bergatino HS410 on a gig recently too and it sounded good. It had a rich tone with a good low mid punch but i didn't like the horn response as much - it was was a little more hifi and 'thin' than the thicker meaty horn response of the Epifani. I'm sure i could have experimented more with the attenuator and the Thunderfunks EQ... I'm feeling rather confused about gear at the moment... see how i feel after the gig
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That is interesting. I thought that the tweeters in the UL-410 and HS410 were the same P-Audio model. I'm sure the crossovers are different, but based upon all of my other experience with Bergs and Epi's, I would have expected the Berg to be crossed over lower and the Epi to be crossed over higher.

FWIW, the HS410 seems fairly 'neutral' to my ears (especially for a 4x10).

Tom.
 
#83
tombowlus said:
That is interesting. I thought that the tweeters in the UL-410 and HS410 were the same P-Audio model. I'm sure the crossovers are different, but based upon all of my other experience with Bergs and Epi's, I would have expected the Berg to be crossed over lower and the Epi to be crossed over higher.

FWIW, the HS410 seems fairly 'neutral' to my ears (especially for a 4x10).

Tom.
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As you know, the Berg models sound very different from each other. While the older HT's with the big horn and hi xmax drivers are definitely crossed over WAY low, I didn't hear that at all in the SA410 or the HT112's. I assume the tweeter and crossover are very similar between the SA410 and HS410.

There's someting about the glassy, airy sound of the Epi circuit that I just haven't heard in other cabs. I assume that's more the crossover than the tweeter itself.

It think that difference in the upper treble tone, combined with the lower mid push of the HS410 versus the deeper bass and somewhat wider tone of the 410UL is why we seem to continue to see the more pop/funk guys gravitating to the 410UL, and the more rock/pop guys gravitating to the HS. Just a guess there, though.

To Dave... the 410UL (II) is slightly more 'polite' in the upper mids, and is a better match to the Thunderfunk than the 410UL (I) in general. However, it's pretty subtle and not sure it would totally change your opinion.

I would get that rig out on a bunch of gigs and see. I used the 410UL (I) with my TF for a couple of years solid and dug it quite a bit, running the EQ virtually flat, with just a touch of enhance to even out the mids a touch. However, my basses are quite wide sounding (J's), so that might make quite a difference, depending on what you are using. The 410UL (I)/TF sounded AMAZING with the MTD basses.. everything lined up perfect on the mix and match there, since the MTD's are a touch mid shy (just like some of the more modern J basses).

Let us know what you end up with!
 
#84
tombowlus said:
That is interesting. I thought that the tweeters in the UL-410 and HS410 were the same P-Audio model. I'm sure the crossovers are different, but based upon all of my other experience with Bergs and Epi's, I would have expected the Berg to be crossed over lower and the Epi to be crossed over higher.

FWIW, the HS410 seems fairly 'neutral' to my ears (especially for a 4x10).

Tom.
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"Neutrality" is precisely why I went from Epifani UL to Berg HS.
 
#90
Got the rig out a the gig - its a regular little bar i play in in melbourne doing instrumental funk fusion - Herbie Hancock, James Brown, etc and a bunch of more obscure stuff...

The cab was pumping - no problem punching through the mix. Still not convinced of the tone... Even pulling the mids out with the Tfunk eq and experimenting with the SS/Tube switch i couldn't dial out what i guess some people must call the 'neo' tone(?) i don't know if thats it or not, i've just heard people talk about it before... Obviously, the more mids you pull out, the less you punch through the mix too...

I wish i had brought my Sadowsky Outboard Preamp to use with my Jazz bass - it would have been interesting to hear how it widened it out things out. All this makes me wonder now if i actually want a wider sounding amp than the Thunderfunk... Would the Markbass or an Epifani ul502 or Edenwt550 be what i want? Too many variables, though, i gotta stick with the Tfunk...

Its just a real shame i can't try any of these on a gig... So i think i'll hang onto this cab for a bit, try it on as many gigs as i can... While i have a bit of cash though, i might order the HS410 on a trial period and compare the two on my own gigs, then keep the one i prefer...

Also, everyone, thanks for your advice - i appreciate it. I think Tom, you comment that the HS410 is pretty neutral is spot on, i think have to give it a real chance
 
#91
Mr_Dave said:
Got the rig out a the gig - its a regular little bar i play in in melbourne doing instrumental funk fusion - Herbie Hancock, James Brown, etc and a bunch of more obscure stuff...

The cab was pumping - no problem punching through the mix. Still not convinced of the tone... Even pulling the mids out with the Tfunk eq and experimenting with the SS/Tube switch i couldn't dial out what i guess some people must call the 'neo' tone(?) i don't know if thats it or not, i've just heard people talk about it before... Obviously, the more mids you pull out, the less you punch through the mix too...

I wish i had brought my Sadowsky Outboard Preamp to use with my Jazz bass - it would have been interesting to hear how it widened it out things out. All this makes me wonder now if i actually want a wider sounding amp than the Thunderfunk... Would the Markbass or an Epifani ul502 or Edenwt550 be what i want? Too many variables, though, i gotta stick with the Tfunk...

Its just a real shame i can't try any of these on a gig... So i think i'll hang onto this cab for a bit, try it on as many gigs as i can... While i have a bit of cash though, i might order the HS410 on a trial period and compare the two on my own gigs, then keep the one i prefer...
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Agreed. There are almost too many variables these days it makes it so hard to choose :p

That's odd though. With the bergs if I take out the mids on my bass or EQ, they're still as punchy as hell and pull through the mix easily. I wouldn't consider getting rid of the T-funk though..I think you've estabilshed that you love that and that it's a fantastic head with one of the best EQ's out there IMO..Would the bergs suit your needs better? Think you've got me as confused as you are yourself Dave :D
 
#92
Alistair R said:
Agreed. There are almost too many variables these days it makes it so hard to choose :p

That's odd though. With the bergs if I take out the mids on my bass or EQ, they're still as punchy as hell and pull through the mix easily. I wouldn't consider getting rid of the T-funk though..I think you've estabilshed that you love that and that it's a fantastic head with one of the best EQ's out there IMO..Would the bergs suit your needs better? Think you've got me as confused as you are yourself Dave :D
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:crying:Yes i am confused :D Damn i just want a CS '64 jazz and a simple kick arse rig and then i can actually do some damn practise and get my chops together and stop worrying about this ****!

With the mids thing, it was just a general comment - mids help you to be heard in the mix - low mids for punching through and upper mids for more growl and articulation... If you get that serious smiley face going it sucks out your headroom... Maybe i can try your Berg 12 stack on a gig once you move down to Melbs? I'm seriously considering ordering the HS410 once George is back from holidays and having both to see what i prefer...:help:
 
#93
Mr_Dave said:
:crying:Yes i am confused :D Damn i just want a CS '64 jazz and a simple kick arse rig and then i can actually do some damn practise and get my chops together and stop worrying about this ****!

With the mids thing, it was just a general comment - mids help you to be heard in the mix - low mids for punching through and upper mids for more growl and articulation... If you get that serious smiley face going it sucks out your headroom... Maybe i can try your Berg 12 stack on a gig once you move down to Melbs? I'm seriously considering ordering the HS410 once George is back from holidays and having both to see what i prefer...:help:
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Yeah you've gotta sell those Sadowsky's and get a 64 RI..I think that'll make you a lot happier on the gear front as well. It's funny how much worrying about gear takes away from your playing/practicing time..I'm a victim of that. lol

Yeah for sure, the 112's will surprise you. What did you not like about the HS410 when you tried and why did you like the Epifani more at the time?
 
#94
Alistair R said:
Yeah you've gotta sell those Sadowsky's and get a 64 RI..I think that'll make you a lot happier on the gear front as well. It's funny how much worrying about gear takes away from your playing/practicing time..I'm a victim of that. lol

Yeah for sure, the 112's will surprise you. What did you not like about the HS410 when you tried and why did you like the Epifani more at the time?
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It was a bit weird - I tried the Epifani ul410 sII and ul212 sII in the shop and prefered the 212. I liked the mids and bottom end more. So i took the ul212 sII out to try on the gig against the HS410. I should have probably just taken both 410s... Then when i tried them on the gig i had the ul212 (with no castors) on the floor and the Berg up on the castors... So it wasn't exactly fair... I loved the Bergs low mid punch but i didn't like the horn so much. But it wasn't really the gig to try it on. Big theatre room and huge PA support (beautiful Pa though - all Meyer, etc)
I wish i had take the HS410 off the castors, but i thought i'd probably always want to leave it on them if i gigged with it because its pretty heavy and i wouldn't want to pull them on and off at every gig... And i didn't have the Sadowsky Outboard Pre to play with either... so yeah, not exactly a perfect trial... I think i'd like to give the HS410 another go
 
#95
Mr_Dave said:
It was a bit weird - I tried the Epifani ul410 sII and ul212 sII in the shop and prefered the 212. I liked the mids and bottom end more. So i took the ul212 sII out to try on the gig against the HS410. I should have probably just taken both 410s... Then when i tried them on the gig i had the ul212 (with no castors) on the floor and the Berg up on the castors... So it wasn't exactly fair... I loved the Bergs low mid punch but i didn't like the horn so much. But it wasn't really the gig to try it on. Big theatre room and huge PA support (beautiful Pa though - all Meyer, etc)
I wish i had take the HS410 off the castors, but i thought i'd probably always want to leave it on them if i gigged with it because its pretty heavy and i wouldn't want to pull them on and off at every gig... And i didn't have the Sadowsky Outboard Pre to play with either... so yeah, not exactly a perfect trial... I think i'd like to give the HS410 another go
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Yeah fair enough. Yeh you'd want to leave the castors on the HS, not exactly something you'd want to put on/remove every few days.

I'd def give the HS another go. My first gig was the 112's was an outdoor one and they didn't stand up too well, was in front of 500 people or so, luckily had PA support but every gig since then...Damn, they've just come alive.
 
#97
I hate to say this.... but you're trying some great cabs and not quite getting what you want it seems. I think it's a mistake to elevate the tfunk to untouchable status. A great amp to be sure but that doesn't mean it delivers a sound that's exactly to your taste. I know you don't want to complicate matters but I'm also sure that you know it's all about combinations of gear to get the end result. I think it would be worthwhile trying those cabs with another head and see what you get.
 
#98
el_Kabong said:
I hate to say this.... but you're trying some great cabs and not quite getting what you want it seems. I think it's a mistake to elevate the tfunk to untouchable status. A great amp to be sure but that doesn't mean it delivers a sound that's exactly to your taste. I know you don't want to complicate matters but I'm also sure that you know it's all about combinations of gear to get the end result. I think it would be worthwhile trying those cabs with another head and see what you get.
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Yeah mate, you make a good point. I've been thinking that, you looking at moving to a 'wider' sounding head, but i've relaxed about the gear situation. I'm saving my cash for now till i can try something that really grabs me. Right now, I'm pretty interested in getting a modular 2x112. I think trying out all these 410s made me realise how attached i am to the sound of 12s... didn't even realise... the aguilar ag500 + 2x112 is something i want to look at.
 

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