@Jakub remember whatever head you get you can modulate your sound before it. Realistically you need something that is good and powerful enough and a great bass tone that suits you. If you need that Ampeg tone then you can get an Ampeg SCR DI pre amp pedal which is also a great practice tool, or Sansamp, Two Notes Le Bass etc. You see my meaning.....
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Best Class D Bass Amps???
- Thread starter foothilla
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- amplifier head class d
Let Andy know what you feel are its shortcomings so he can make it perfect for the next round.
My #1 complaint to Mesa Boogie would be:
How is it that my Mesa D800+ (rated at 800 watts) doesn't move a fraction of the air that my Mesa 400+ (rated at 400 watts) moved?
Their wattage ratings are incredibly suspect, which can be seen just by comparing their tube products with their class D products. It makes it hard for me to trust a company when I personally experience that kind of misleading disparity. Yet, I still use their products.
You know that you're comparing solidstate watts to tube watts, right?
(slinks away into the night..........................)
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,015
- 5
- 220,868
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
By any chance are you using the same knob positions in your comparison? If so, the gain structure and control taper are totally different, the Bass 400+ gets louder earlier but overdriven sooner but the D-800 continues to get louder as the gain and master are increased.My #1 complaint to Mesa Boogie would be:
How is it that my Mesa D800+ (rated at 800 watts) doesn't move a fraction of the air that my Mesa 400+ (rated at 400 watts) moved?
Their wattage ratings are incredibly suspect, which can be seen just by comparing their tube products with their class D products. It makes it hard for me to trust a company when I personally experience that kind of misleading disparity. Yet, I still use their products.
The Bass 400+ is also voiced differently and has looser damping which can make it sound a little louder and bloomier.
I assume you are comparing using the same speakers of course?
MMMiguelito
"...I'm afraid I can't do that, Dave".
Hands down the best Class D I've used or owned is my Genzler 800. I've tried a bunch of different amps and keep coming back to this. I'm no lobger searching.
Yes, I used the same speaker cabs. The D class Mesa D-800+ doesn't move a fraction of the air that the tube Mesa 400+ moved, even though D800+ is supposed to be double the wattage. I actually crank the D-800+ as loud as it will go without distorting, and I still wish I had more headroom at times. Conversely, through the same cabinet setup the 400+ could make my head explode and there would still be room for me to go louder.
If you design for Mesa Boogie, then you know what I am saying is 100% true, and it shouldn't be that way. Are you the only company to use these smoke and mirrors wattage ratings? Of course not. But, that doesn't make it right. It's greasy.
I still buy Mesa Boogie products, but I am a little more suspicious of the company after realizing that my "800 watt" Mesa D class amp doesn't have a fraction of the headroom as my "400 watt" Mesa 400+ tube head.
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I don't get the complaining over a 800watt bass amp not being loud enough especially in today's age with good to great house systems. I have a Genzler 800 and have owned both the Mesa 800 and 800+ and all would easily do any venue you could want. You can't make me believe that if you've got adequate cabinets to handle the full 800 watts that you would need more headroom.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,015
- 5
- 220,868
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
I assure you that there is no smoke and mirrors regarding power ratings. There is a significant difference in voicing and also in damping factor. Both of those could be responsible for YOUR preferences.
Different players playing different styles of music might very well prefer something different. This is why there are different amplifier models on the market.
My recommendation is always to choose an amp and speakers that makes YOU happy.
House systems? What about rehearsals? I rehearse much more than I actually gig, and my band rehearses without "a good house system", in a studio space with deadened walls (which soak up a ton of sound).
My cabinets are quite adequate. I run a Warwick Jonas Hellborg Big Cab (2x15), and sometimes I run a GK 2x10 on top of it. Adequate enough for you?
You are quite shortsighted to think every playing situation involves a "good house system". But, regardless of the house system, my cabinets, or the venue,.....a 400 watt Mesa head should not have substantially more headroom than a 800 watt Mesa head - period. But, that is exactly the reality.
Friend,...it has nothing to do with my preferences, or my playing style. I had the same bass cabs, playing style and preferences with the 400+ that I have with the D800+,....but yet the 400+ had way way more headroom, at supposedly half the wattage. To the average consumer, that makes no sense. It makes the wattage ratings useless when there is huge wattage-to-headroom disparity within a company's products.
The good thing is you can continue using anything you prefer. I will say you will probably be the only person I've seen complain about headroom with the Mesa 800+. Good thing is you can sale me your Mesa 800+ at a cheap price since your so dissatisfied with it lol.
There must be something wrong with that particular 800+. The amps using the 700ACS output section can take your head off; and if the criterion is "getting loud enough," there should be zero issues. The amp I happen to be playing with that module is at about 1/3 of its true capability when the band is at 110 decibels. Mine barely gets warmed up when the band is already too loud for most clubs.
Scratches head.
Scratches head.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,015
- 5
- 220,868
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
In fact it may have everything to do with preferences, as the voicing between the two amps is quite different. Different voicings can easily give the impression of more or less power into identical cabinets. Even within a single company's amp line will be products with significantly different properties. For example, the Strategy and Prodigy are very, very different than the Subway and Walkabout. (for a good reason)
Your experience is clearly different than other players here, I really suggest that you just play what you prefer.
The doubling of watts, is not the doubling of volume; and then you have the tube vs. D class watts as well.
This is extremely important information, as way too many people think that doubling their amp's power output doubles the volume; in reality, there is just a tiny bit more perceived output (3dB). And as agedhorse mentioned, the tonal differences ("baked-in tone") can and does have a very significant bearing on perceived volume levels, too. Not to mention (okay, I'm mentioning it) the relative positions of the volume controls (gain, master, etc.) on the amps have no bearing on how much power an amp is putting out. Tone control stacks are totally different, too, and setting a "flat" response is not usually all EQ controls straight up, or some such. So comparing a 400+ to a 800+ may not be as straightforward as one would think.
I didn't say that I am "dissatisfied with it". I said it has less headroom than an amp rated at half the power, from the same manufacturer. There are times at rehearsal that I run out of headroom, but as of today I haven't made any effort to sell it.
There isn't much point in having a conversation with you, if you are going to put words into my mouth.
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I don't expect the volume to be doubled, but I also don't expect it to have less headroom than an amp rated at half the power from the same manufacturer.
And trust me, I have put the EQ through a ton of different settings. It's just not anywhere near as loud as the 400+, which is rated at half the wattage.
