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Big E Speakers Part 4 - Quadraphenia

#1,401
Had a much more pleasurable playing experience this morning vs. practice this past Tuesday. I brought my 5-string J to practice and had difficulty finding a tone that would hang with the other musicians who were playing too loudly for the room. When I got home I checked the date of my last string change and discovered that they were overdue. Took my 4-string P/J with fresh strings this morning and solo'd the precision into the Shaw B-150 > 18sound loaded MAS-112. Beautiful and inspirational tones! Position number five on the mid-range tone stack is still my favorite for precision pickups.
 
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#1,402
That's why I really like the MAS112LPT. With just the 3012ho---works really well. I only add a Ciare supertweeter to that cab. Never really liked the 3012ho. Great mids and clarity, but a NASTY 2k peak and the lows were thin. The 112 loading brings the bass balance right where I like it and Duke's filter circuit brings down the peak.
 
#1,403
The LPT does sound very interesting, Mike. You have a version with mids and one without, don't you? Have you had a chance to A/B those 2 configurations? Do the mid speakers add more sonic options, or...? Thanks.
 
#1,404
I am curious about the LPT 112, myself. If it can hang, as a two-way cab (I like the mids engaged in my 112 with the 18Sound) with a low-powered head, with its beefier brothers, it'll be a compelling option for a lot of people.
 
#1,405
TomB said:
The LPT does sound very interesting, Mike. You have a version with mids and one without, don't you? Have you had a chance to A/B those 2 configurations? Do the mid speakers add more sonic options, or...? Thanks.
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No---the mids are really nice with the ho. It goes strong to 4khz and if possible, I try to let the woofers run open without high pass. To use the mid drivers I'd have to do a low pass on the woofer----there's no reason to use the mid drivers crossed over at 5k--the Ciare does a fine job up there. The MAS112 with the Faital has the lowest crossover point. It takes best advantage of the 4" Faital mids.The 18Sound version is VERY strong to 2500hz so I cross over to the mids at a higher frequency.The only cab that I low pass the woofers is the Flex. It's because the Eminence 3010lf's are awesome---up to about 400hz--then they suck. The use of toroidal inductors ($$$$) has allowed me to still get the low frequency that I want. Since the mids in tha Flex are vortex-loaded--it's win-win. But with the other cabs that aren't vortex loaded mids I want to get that woofer going as high as possible so as to get as much back wave as I can. Dig?
 
#1,407
Mike Arnopol said:
No---the mids are really nice with the ho. It goes strong to 4khz and if possible, I try to let the woofers run open without high pass. To use the mid drivers I'd have to do a low pass on the woofer----there's no reason to use the mid drivers crossed over at 5k--the Ciare does a fine job up there. The MAS112 with the Faital has the lowest crossover point. It takes best advantage of the 4" Faital mids.The 18Sound version is VERY strong to 2500hz so I cross over to the mids at a higher frequency.The only cab that I low pass the woofers is the Flex. It's because the Eminence 3010lf's are awesome---up to about 400hz--then they suck. The use of toroidal inductors ($$$$) has allowed me to still get the low frequency that I want. Since the mids in tha Flex are vortex-loaded--it's win-win. But with the other cabs that aren't vortex loaded mids I want to get that woofer going as high as possible so as to get as much back wave as I can. Dig?
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Yes, actually I do, thanks. I'd like to check them ALL out, but the LPT sounds like a great one cab solution.
 
#1,408
RoadRanger said:
I'm playing my Ashdown CTM-30 through an Acoustic B810 (8x10) right now - I wonder how the LPT would compare for SPL?
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Wow-----really? That's an odd combination! 30 watts into an 810?
In terms of overall volume with a boatload of power the 810 will beat the MAS112LPT in terms of overall volume. The LPT will move around 700cc's of air with either 100 watts of tube power or about 300 watts of solid state power. Acoustic gives out very little info---so I don't know what the sensitivity is. I would assume 100db or less. The SVT is 100. The LPT is about 102. Now---the Acoustic is 4 ohms which might help with a solid state load, but it wouldn't make a difference with tubes.

An SVT is around 1100 cc's. I would assume the Acoustic is similar. The othere 112's are close to 1000 cc's. I can't make any comparisons as far as sound (if I don't want to get tarred and feathered) but I think that the LPT might be an easier speaker to drive with the Ashdown.

That reminds me of a pic I gave to EA when I was an endorser. When you're on the road you put in your rider things that you know won't get srewed up---and that a backline company in Outer Mongolia would have. So I just had a request for a 410 and gave preferences. I was playing a concert in France and they supplied a Fridge. For upright. So I had a picture of a little EA Micro (about 2 1/2#) sitting on top of a Fridge.

I had a pic of me at the Red Sea Jazz Festival. I had a choice of a GK 800RB + a 410. Or a Marshall rig with a big tube head and two 4x12's. I took the Marshall. I knew it would sound awful (which it did) but I couldn't resist. A Marshall stack with upright. Eddie Gomez was there laughing his arse off. It was worth it!
 
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#1,410
Mike Arnopol said:
Wow-----really? That's an odd combination! 30 watts into an 810?
In terms of overall volume with a boatload of power the 810 will beat the MAS112LPT in terms of overall volume. The LPT will move around 700cc's of air with either 100 watts of tube power or about 300 watts of solid state power. Acoustic gives out very little info---so I don't know what the sensitivity is. I would assume 100db or less. The SVT is 100. The LPT is about 102. Now---the Acoustic is 4 ohms which might help with a solid state load, but it wouldn't make a difference with tubes.

An SVT is around 1100 cc's. I would assume the Acoustic is similar. The othere 112's are close to 1000 cc's. I can't make any comparisons as far as sound (if I don't want to get tarred and feathered) but I think that the LPT might be an easier speaker to drive with the Ashdown.

That reminds me of a pic I gave to EA when I was an endorser. When you're on the road you put in your rider things that you know won't get srewed up---and that a backline company in Outer Mongolia would have. So I just had a request for a 410 and gave preferences. I was playing a concert in France and they supplied a Fridge. For upright. So I had a picture of a little EA Micro (about 2 1/2#) sitting on top of a Fridge.

I had a pic of me at the Red Sea Jazz Festival. I had a choice of a GK 800RB + a 410. Or a Marshall rig with a big tube head and two 4x12's. I took the Marshall. I knew it would sound awful (which it did) but I couldn't resist. A Marshall stack with upright. Eddie Gomez was there laughing his arse off. It was worth it!
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Eddie Gomez was one of the first players my junior high jazz band teacher, Mr. C, exposed me to. He made me a mix tape (as in cassette, OG) with him, Ron Carter, Paul Chambers... I wasn't mature enough to fully appreciate it at the time (I should see if I can find it!), but I think that's pretty friggin' cool. There was a tune on there called The Tale of the Fingers, but I wanna say that was Chambers...

700ccs vs 1000ccs, run the woofer up as high as possible. Dig.
 
#1,412
Mike Arnopol said:
Wow-----really? That's an odd combination! 30 watts into an 810?
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That's what's in that particular rehearsal space so I used it ;) . I was running the SVT's master on "1", the CTM-30's on about 2 o'clock with a fair amount of overdrive when I dig in :) . I really need to take a picture of the CTM-30 sitting on top of the SVT head on top of the 8x10 :D . I am curious what a Marshall 4x12 would sound like with it - another rehearsal space has an ancient Sunn 4x12 in it with an old Acoustic 150 head that sounds great on bass :) . Obviously I don't need a lot of xmax with only 30 watts...
 
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#1,414
Yeah---I'm likely going to lose some sales, but I'm starting to ask potential buyers how loud they're going to play these speakers in normal use. A lot of guys think it would be nifty to get a 112 but are going to mainly play them at home for practicing. I could just sell them the cab and call it a day. But now I'm telling them that they'd be happier with a smaller cab of mine---or maybe someone else's. All cabs have a "sweet spot" where they'll perform their best. Amps, too. I think that mine have a very wide sweet spot but they also have points where they're not at their optimum. Everyone's cabs are like that to one degree or another. A common mistake guys make is finding a cab that will go pretty crazy loud before giving up the battle. And that's the volume they want to push them all the time. They'll sound ok---modern woofers can go quite far before farting out---but they won't sound their best. They'll cover the gig but there will be no headroom. Likewise, some speakers won't come into their own until a certain volume level. They'll sound good, but won't be at their best.

It's like a thread I was involved with on TB. Guys were talking about a very nice little amp that would put out 800 watts max into 4 ohms. So they'd run the crap out of it into two 15's and it would complain that it would thermally cycle and sound like crap. Now---I am critical of a company that would put out an amp that couldn't hold its peak wattage without crapping out---but I'm just as critical of someone that would expect an amp to be constantly driven to its limits and then complains that it doesn't sound good. If you're pushing a speaker or amp to its limits--you lose any additional headroom. It'll go loud, but won't have that extra "oomph" and lovely envelope of sound. I use an amp that puts out 1200 watts. I really only need 500 at most. But that 1200 watt amp sounds glorious putting out 500 watts, where an amp that puts out a measured 600 watts max doesn't sound nearly as good. Both amps from the same manufacturer and of the same quality. Headroom
 
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#1,415
Dominick C. said:
Don't suppose one would need to care. IMHO speakers sound best when pushed a little. Putting a little more power into a single speaker would allow it to move more/ sound better. This may be subjective, but I have the feeling a lot of people would agree.
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I agree. But it depends on what you're going for. The certain sound of cone breakup may be ideal for some, while the speaker almost reaching that may be perfect for others. It's a matter of finding the tools that meet your individual needs.
 
#1,416
TomB said:
I recently had a remarkably similar situation and outcome...
Ski area gig, bad blizzard, poor roads, and so eventually we pull up to the venue right at showtime, packed full of warm, happy skiers. The bass cab (not an MAS ...not yet, anyway) is way in the front of the truck, but the Rache12 sub is right at the back door (and it turns out there's house PA). So, instant Rache12 bass cab (powered by a GK MB Fusion 500). Man, that thing killed, even without any mid-speakers! I think it's a 3012 in there, but Leland will need to confirm that. More MVW magic at work!
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3012lf. It's all about the reinforcement from the horn ports up to 4k.
 
#1,417
Mike Arnopol said:
Yeah---I'm likely going to lose some sales, but I'm starting to ask potential buyers how loud they're going to play these speakers in normal use. A lot of guys think it would be nifty to get a 112 but are going to mainly play them at home for practicing. I could just sell them the cab and call it a day.
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I'm curious what you'd recommend for that CTM-30 of mine. Obviously it will be on and over the edge of overdrive all the time. And also obviously an efficient cab needed to make it gigable. I do have a set of EL84-STR's coming in that will give it maybe a db more clean power (larger plates = more current capacity).

I also have a couple 100w-ish heads too that I could pull a pair of outputs on - and a '67 Bassman.
 
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#1,418
RoadRanger said:
I'm curious what you'd recommend for that CTM-30 of mine. Obviously it will be on and over the edge of overdrive all the time. And also obviously an efficient cab needed to make it gigable. I do have a set of EL84-STR's coming in that will give it maybe a db more clean power (larger plates = more current capacity).

I also have a couple 100w-ish heads too that I could pull a pair of outputs on - and a '67 Bassman.
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MAS112LPT. Best cab in my stable for that application. I plated an old 70's Bassman through it and it went to gig volume. And that Bassman is a very anemic 50 watts. I don't think that at that power the CTM-30 would be gigable for a 5 string but I think a 4 string would go medium gig volume. An 85 watt Showman drove it crazy loud.
 
#1,419
Mike Arnopol said:
I plated an old 70's Bassman through it
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Took a while trying to figure out why your cab would cause it to red-plate :wideyed:, guess you meant played ;) ?

Mike Arnopol said:
I don't think that at that power the CTM-30 would be gigable for a 5 string but I think a 4 string would go medium gig volume.
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No 5 strings here - but I do tune "D" standard just to mess with the guitarists trying to follow my fingers ;) (Actually, I need the "D" for modern country).
 
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