Blew my 12".....AGAIN!!!!!

[tfer]

I think I accidently started it by using the words "surface area."...and an 810 is equal to 3 15's.

Meh. I took the bait, like a large mouth bass (hmmm...that could be take a couple of ways!).

I apologize to the OP for dragging his thread through the mud.

 

[BurningSkies]

Lots of mis-information continuing here.

But without misinformation, what would we have to rail against? It's the yin to our yang. The peanut to our jelly. The rosewood to our maple.

 

[samson3382]

But there were some good funnies and fights in there too, right?

ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!?!?

Quite entertained.
I can't leave.

 

[Rick James]

Quite entertained.
I can't leave.

Kind of like watching one of these:

 

[Coolhandjjl]

To the OP and others, there are no personal agendas or flames going on. Just helping to separate the myths/mis-information from the realities/best practices. Knowledge is a good thing, and a free exchange of that knowledge is even better.

 

[static0verdrive]

Guys: I can hear frequencies probably as low as 100 Hz on my earphones... they're what, a quarter-inch speaker? (Sure I'm guessing and some lows are implied by overtones and psychoacoustics certainly factor in, but I digress.)

When you get into SPL, sure, larger drivers can move more air, therefore you can get LOUDER with less power needed, but not lower. Larger drivers move more air, not venture into different frequency ranges. (They can potentially, but...) The frequency response of a driver is based on a few factors, and driver diameter isn't a big one. Ever see 5" subwoofers for sale?

 

[Downunderwonder]

Another thing. If this cab is slot ported you will have a helluva time retuning it. Without retuning it you can potentially kiss an expensive sub driver goodbye as you tighten the screws.

 

[Bigbri]

Thiele/Small - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All things are never equal, so those analogies aren't very useful.

Speaker size alone is not very useful criteria at all in determining how much air can be displaced.
In addition to the T/S Parameters, there is tuning frequency, multiple driver coupling, box design, etc. There are engineered cabs using 8" drivers that more more air than an 18".




A properly engineered cab does not force anything. Again, just because a driver has a larger diameter than another does not mean it can go lower or louder.




Again, mis-information. Even if the surface area and excursion of the 15 was equal to the sum of surface area of an array of smaller ones, IE moving the same amount of air, the array of smaller ones wins every time. Why? Because it's an array! And arrays couple the sound waves of multiple drivers together to add more dBs than merely the sum of individual displacement.



Compared to what? I bet you are one of those that believe that 10's are "faster" than 15's.



There are many high quality and well engineered 1x10 bass cabs available. Even 8" ones. Stop spreading mis-information.




Hi-Fi and backline/pro audio are two entirely different animals. Their goal are very different.




Surface area is a much more useful measurement than cone diameter. Surface area more accurately describes the volume of air moved and the frequency response of the driver. Some drivers are straight sides, some are curved wall, some have large dustups, some have small dustcaps, some have flatter dust caps, some are spherical. All these variables translates into the volume of air moved and at what frequencies.[/QUOT

A friend gave me some JBL speakers, His brats pushed the dust caps in. How does one fix that? I'm sure they sound the same but they certainly don't look like they do.

 

[Scottkarch]

Kind of like watching one of these:

Best picture ever. Going to keep that one and use it. Thanks.

As for helping the OP. The high pass filter makes a lot of sense to try if you are going to try the same speaker one more time. And even if you use a different speaker, probably a smart way to go.

 

[B-string]

A friend gave me some JBL speakers, His brats pushed the dust caps in. How does one fix that? I'm sure they sound the same but they certainly don't look like they do.

A speaker repair shop can replace the dust caps. Dented in it affects the upper frequency response a little.

 

[Bigbri]

Guys: I can hear frequencies probably as low as 100 Hz on my earphones... they're what, a quarter-inch speaker? (Sure I'm guessing and some lows are implied by overtones and psychoacoustics certainly factor in, but I digress.)

When you get into SPL, sure, larger drivers can move more air, therefore you can get LOUDER with less power needed, but not lower. Larger drivers move more air, not venture into different frequency ranges. (They can potentially, but...) The frequency response of a driver is based on a few factors, and driver diameter isn't a big one. Ever see 5" subwoofers for sale?

Guys: I can hear frequencies probably as low as 100 Hz on my earphones... they're what, a quarter-inch speaker? (Sure I'm guessing and some lows are implied by overtones and psychoacoustics certainly factor in, but I digress.)

When you get into SPL, sure, larger drivers can move more air, therefore you can get LOUDER with less power needed, but not lower. Larger drivers move more air, not venture into different frequency ranges. (They can potentially, but...) The frequency response of a driver is based on a few factors, and driver diameter isn't a big one. Ever see 5" subwoofers for sale?

Yup I got one for the surround in the bedroom. A philips Woox, whatever that means. The speaker is mounted in the bottom facing the floor and a passive radiator in the front. In the old townhouse I could severely bother my neighbours with it.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

A friend gave me some JBL speakers, His brats pushed the dust caps in. How does one fix that? I'm sure they sound the same but they certainly don't look like they do.

An eyedropper with water, and a straw is all you need. Get the dust cap slightly damp (may have to wait a bit), and use the straw like a straw would be used. (Any detailed explanations of how to use the straw would invite too many wise cracks with this bunch.)

 

[B-string]

An eyedropper with water, and a straw is all you need. Get the dust cap slightly damp (may have to wait a bit), and use the straw like a straw would be used. (Any detailed explanations of how to use the straw would invite too many wise cracks with this bunch.)

Man you are making it tough, resist, resist, resist, resist. Not worth the wrath of the mods, resist.

 

[Selta]

An eyedropper with water, and a straw is all you need. Get the dust cap slightly damp (may have to wait a bit), and use the straw like a straw would be used. (Any detailed explanations of how to use the straw would invite too many wise cracks with this bunch.)

So get it wet then suck on it?


(The infraction points are *so* worth it)

 

[B-string]

So get it wet then suck on it?


(The infraction points are *so* worth it)

That's what she said

 

[Bigbri]

A speaker repair shop can replace the dust caps. Dented in it affects the upper frequency response a little.

Have you ever heard of Altec Lansing "Voice of the theatre" speakers? My father bought the drivers in the early 70's and made the cabs. One of the best sounding speakers I've heard.

An eyedropper with water, and a straw is all you need. Get the dust cap slightly damp (may have to wait a bit), and use the straw like a straw would be used. (Any detailed explanations of how to use the straw would invite too many wise cracks with this bunch.)

Lol but good idea..thanks. Someone told me too use a vacuum cleaner. Get as close as you can without removing the cone.

 

[B-string]

Have you ever heard of Altec Lansing "Voice of the theatre" speakers? My father bought the drivers in the early 70's and made the cabs. One of the best sounding speakers I've heard.

Lol but good idea..thanks. Someone told me too use a vacuum cleaner. Get as close as you can without removing the cone.

Sure have! My introduction to true "HiFi" was from a pair of A7's with multicell horns driven by a pair of McIntosh MC60 tube mono-block amps, McIntosh preamp and a 10" Revox reel to reel with a master tape loaded.

I still have a few Altec 421AH bass drivers that I covet, much more than the JBL D140F's or EVM 15L/B's (actually sold off the JBL's many years ago).

Be extremely careful with a vacuum, it is very easy to damage the cone. I have also used tape like painter's or masking, but again you can pull the cone out too far if not very careful. Usually there is some stretch in the aluminum and they never look right.

 

[DavidEdenAria]

If you guys were to do the math, I don't think ANY of the recommendations for a single 12" driver will get the necessary SPL at enough LF extension with the 300 watts available. I also suspect that the amp is being driven hard into clipping, so a thermal rating of ~500 watts would be necessary to survive. That takes away the higher sensitivity driver options too.

Exactly....that's why I stated to turn the amp down a bit and back the low bass off some as well.

But I would dump the whole setup....I will keep my cheap Acoustic 8x10 that I reinforced the whole cab inside that I paid $120 for...I've had several bassists that cant believe how good it sounds now that I eliminated much of the cabinet resonance.

Plus i can roll the darn thing around and it will fit into the back seat of my Camry!

For low dough, a pair of used EV TL606 cabs or similar should be easy to find.

But hey, if I had the scratch I would buy one of these modern supercabs....probably a 2x10 or 2x12....my Eden 2x10 sounds pretty darn good!

 

[Wasnex]

it's a biamp. The 8's are all over 100 to 200 already. Your scheme takes from the 8's and piles it onto the already overtaxed 12. What's the solution? Raise the crossover some more? No.

The single 12 will be more capable of matching the efficiency and output of the 8's at higher frequencies. By raising the crossover and inserting an HPF, the 12 will be limited to working in its intended range and be less taxed in the sub range it is not able to reproduce. The 12 will not be able to keep up with the 8's, but it may play loud enough for the OPs needs if it is not being slammed with sub frequencies.

Obviously a better solution is to buy a speaker with higher efficiency, more power handling capacity, and a better low frequency response. Do you have a better recommendation than a Fearful 15 Sub?

15 Sub
Dimensions: 20.5"x24.0"x19.5"
Tuning Frequency: ~45-46.5 Hz
Typical Weight: 47-50 lbs

 

[tfer]

Sure have! My introduction to true "HiFi" was from a pair of A7's with multicell horns driven by a pair of McIntosh MC60 tube mono-block amps, McIntosh preamp and a 10" Revox reel to reel with a master tape loaded.

I still have a few Altec 421AH bass drivers that I covet, much more than the JBL D140F's or EVM 15L/B's (actually sold off the JBL's many years ago).

McIntosh amps and preamps are what got me into hifi as well. Never been lucky enough to own a set any of their products. I tried to convince my wife that we needed them. It didn't go as well as I'd hoped...