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My same thoughts when I read that last post of yours. No mention of the disconnect in Pastor Glass' story, no comment or questions when I laid out the fundamental differences you asked for, just a comment about how much you apparently think we owe to his work and designs. Despite several major things we clearly don't.
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Sorry, that looks like someone intentionally ignoring things. Which is the only way this works out for Pastor Glass... he has to ignore the truth. I get why he's doing it... I don't get why others would be compelled to.
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You started this whole tangent for some reason, what exactly was it? I know many folks like drama, unfounded or not.
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Sorry, that looks like someone intentionally ignoring things. Which is the only way this works out for Pastor Glass... he has to ignore the truth. I get why he's doing it... I don't get why others would be compelled to.
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You started this whole tangent for some reason, what exactly was it? I know many folks like drama, unfounded or not.
So let's move forward...
I have gig footage from a job I did at Hollywood Casino in WV last month. Decent sound quality and it's an example of the smallest Tank, the 1012 in a live mix. If it's okay I'll put a link to it here.
I have gig footage from a job I did at Hollywood Casino in WV last month. Decent sound quality and it's an example of the smallest Tank, the 1012 in a live mix. If it's okay I'll put a link to it here.
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Just as a passer-by, different people can have different sense of and sensibilities about design credit and what constitutes a rip-off. It appears to me that the story here has the elements that could reasonably allow someone to come to the conclusion that a "rip-off" occurred, using their own sense of what's "right"...not necessarily in a legalistic sense.
I don't know that I have the facts straight...again, just as a passer-by, I see that part of the story is that Dru/BBC was "building" (assembling?) Glasstone cabinets? It's not apparent as to why Glasstone wouldn't be building its own cabinets, but I assume this arrangement would involve allowing as intimate an understanding of Glasstone designs as one can have. The story goes on, as I'm understanding it, that following this arrangement, BBC began making its own cabinets, which share a major/defining design feature with the Lil G cabinet...you used the words "and starting with the Tank 1215 [Dru] did a redesign." Whether it's what you meant or not, I can read that as "Dru did a redesign of the Lil G." I find it easy to see how someone could view that as a "rip-off."
I'm not saying that I have enough information or interest to really form an opinion, just sharing some perspective on how someone could view what's here.
I'll try to address this more clearly. Using one's sense of "right" should be based on having a clear understanding of the facts. I'll break this down to the simplest terms I can but please don't think I'm being condescending by doing so.
Drue built the Tank 1215 as a BBC cab with PG's blessing. That blessing even remained the week PG started calling us names. He withdrew his blessings the following week and at that point Drue decided to no longer build the Tank 1215 as it stands today.
For anyone who looks at the Tank series cabs and Lil G cabs as being the same, other than having a non-visible driver, despite the clear visual and functionality differences, so be it. It's not worth pursuing.
So, in a nutshell (I hope)...
Drue started off by offering to help PG in any way he could with building, much the same as I had earlier and separate from Drue. Pastor Glass declined. Then, after he got sick he contacted Drue about helping him. Drue started out by helping Pastor Glass by providing cut wood for him, thereby making it easier for him to build cabinets because he did not have a very sophisticated setup. He did this for free. He also had the Glasstone labels made for Pastor Glass. As PG got sicker Drue built some of the cabinets for PG, even delivering them to his house so he could sell them to his customers. PG was on a lightened production schedule for himself at that time so he needed the help.
When PG got ill enough he stopped building completely and Drue gave him a hand by building all of his cabinets. At this time he discussed with Drue building cabs for himself that he could sell in addition to PG selling cabs. After the first couple of cabs Drue thought they would be a great fit for Washington Music Center aka Chuck's. He discussed this at length with PG before approaching the store. He was given his blessing to do that and PG said he didn't want a royalty because no money would likely be made, Chuck's normally doesn't pick up new lines, especially unestablished ones. To most folks surprise WMC loved the cabs.
PG was delighted that his cabs were now in WMC and told many people about it. This couldn't have happened without his knowledge, which is his primary story. PG has also tried to portray WMC as victims of Drue's and my fiendish plot. The fact is they've been carrying BBC cabs ever since, even after PG caused a scene at the store twice. We disclosed early on exactly what was going on, particularly the now recently erased Facebook post thanking BBC for all it did to get the products into WMC. WMC also saw the differences in the new products and has no issue with doing business with us.
You really can't go back and pretend what happened didn't. PG has been doing that since August 2014 and it makes no more sense now than it did then.
Unfortunately not getting the info that's right here is a problem and not something we can address. We can't force people to follow this story or what's actually factually correct in it. Drama sells, it catches the eye. The truth OTOH can be boring. I'll still stick with the truth... one story is easier to remember than a series of lies.
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While I have no dog in this hunt I do understand that patents, copyrights and such are the vehicle used to protect designs. Are there any in place here? If not it should be no big deal. I also know that virtually every speaker design used today including many that are purported to be "original" are anything but truly original. How Is having side ports or down firing woofers different in any significant way from designs that are in use today and at the same time decades old? I don't expect to have our own truly gifted speaker designers that are right here on this website chime in for fear of getting involved in something they don't have a vested interest in, but perhaps some of our speaker gurus that aren't in the business of actually building cabs could help us understand this whole deal. When I see close copy's of anything in this business whether it's instruments or speakers or amps or whatever. I notice the similarities that many brands share. I also understand when someone like Fender doesn't patent their designs they shouldn't be surprised when someone else takes a liking to its form and function and adopts it as their own. Whether you choose to call it stealing, I don't unless it is protected! It may not be nice, it may not make you warm and fuzzy but it's a big ole cold cruel world out there and you better cover your a$$ if you get my drift. These threads make me a bit sad as I think things probably started out innocently enough but when people or partners split ways there are often ruffled feathers to say the least. I recently dissolved a Corp. that I started partly due to dissent among the ranks of the owners. I hope things work out and I wish the Reverand health and happiness. Bless you all, peace Kirk.
Yes, legally BBC could've continued to make Lil G cabinets and we didn't. If cabinets function differently are they the same?
Here's how we found out something had changed with our working arrangements (Drue and I worked with him independently):
Drue contacted PG on a Monday about some parts he had ready to drop off at PG's house, as he had done many times before. PG texted Drue that he could either keep them or throw them away... that was the first sign that anything was up with PG. As I think I mentioned, the three of us had just attended a bass jam where we were side by side and everything seemed cool. Also remember that after he told Drue to keep the parts he went on Facebook and fabricated the story about not giving BBC permission to do anything with Glasstone, which was clearly not true.
The same week, on Friday, was when he texted me calling me personally a thief. By then, knowing what he had said about Drue and BBC, I wasn't surprised. It was still baffling and no less so now because all we could do is guess why any of this happened. Why a pastor would publicly thank someone for helping him out and then swear he never gave him permission to help is the real mystery. He put up a story on Facebook about me being a co-conspirator with Drue in getting cabinets into Washington Music Center... even though I got involved after the WMC deal was struck.
So none of this happened after we parted ways because "we" didn't... he parted ways with us and went on a spree on Facebook slandering the co-conspirators while not naming us.
This is a Glasstone Lil G. It is a PORTED cab with two main drivers and a tweeter. It functions as a ported cab with a single port on the lower portion of the front.
This is a Boom Bass Cabinets Tank 1215. It is a SEALED cabinet with two main drivers and a tweeter. It functions as a sealed cabinet with three lower openings which direct the sound from the lower driver in a much wider pattern than a single port. The front dispersion is markedly different too, with much better coverage for up close
These are fundamental differences.
This is an Avatar 112. What does it look like?
All three have single main drivers and a tweeter on the front. All use Faital Pro speakers. There are several front ported cabs that look like this. They are all ported cabinets. The looks of the Glasstone was not new. None of them function like a Boom Bass Cabinet.
Here's how we found out something had changed with our working arrangements (Drue and I worked with him independently):
Drue contacted PG on a Monday about some parts he had ready to drop off at PG's house, as he had done many times before. PG texted Drue that he could either keep them or throw them away... that was the first sign that anything was up with PG. As I think I mentioned, the three of us had just attended a bass jam where we were side by side and everything seemed cool. Also remember that after he told Drue to keep the parts he went on Facebook and fabricated the story about not giving BBC permission to do anything with Glasstone, which was clearly not true.
The same week, on Friday, was when he texted me calling me personally a thief. By then, knowing what he had said about Drue and BBC, I wasn't surprised. It was still baffling and no less so now because all we could do is guess why any of this happened. Why a pastor would publicly thank someone for helping him out and then swear he never gave him permission to help is the real mystery. He put up a story on Facebook about me being a co-conspirator with Drue in getting cabinets into Washington Music Center... even though I got involved after the WMC deal was struck.
So none of this happened after we parted ways because "we" didn't... he parted ways with us and went on a spree on Facebook slandering the co-conspirators while not naming us.
This is a Glasstone Lil G. It is a PORTED cab with two main drivers and a tweeter. It functions as a ported cab with a single port on the lower portion of the front.
This is a Boom Bass Cabinets Tank 1215. It is a SEALED cabinet with two main drivers and a tweeter. It functions as a sealed cabinet with three lower openings which direct the sound from the lower driver in a much wider pattern than a single port. The front dispersion is markedly different too, with much better coverage for up close
These are fundamental differences.
This is an Avatar 112. What does it look like?
All three have single main drivers and a tweeter on the front. All use Faital Pro speakers. There are several front ported cabs that look like this. They are all ported cabinets. The looks of the Glasstone was not new. None of them function like a Boom Bass Cabinet.
- Nov 24, 2008
- 4,343
- 7,163
- Disclosures
- Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
My understanding is that the Glasstone Lil G has a second woofer that fires downwards into the slot whose exit we see at the bottom front of the cab in the photo. Is that correct?
Are there any openings or air passageways between that slot and the interior of the box? The downfiring woofer of course would not constitute an opening or air passageway.
Are there any openings or air passageways between the interior of the box and the outside world anywhere else on the cab?
Thanks.
Hi Duke,
Yes, except the combination of both drivers fire into the slot port.
The BBC cabs also have a second woofer which is the only driver firing into the three lower openings.
Yes. You can contact Pastor Glass for details.
No on the BBC cabs.
No.
No on the BBC cabs.
You're welcome.
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- Nov 24, 2008
- 4,343
- 7,163
- Disclosures
- Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
Thanks Brad. I hadn't understood how the Lil G was a "ported cab", but if the slot is connected to the inside of the box by an opening, that explains it. Imo that was pretty creative on the part of Pastor Glass... reminds me a little bit of a tapped horn, though of course the Lil G is not a horn.
And I can see how the BBC cab configuration offers improved dispersion in both the horizontal and vertical planes.
And I can see how the BBC cab configuration offers improved dispersion in both the horizontal and vertical planes.
Great to see you here Duke, I was afraid, as I said above, we wouldn't have the " pros" chiming in. And yes the differences are obvious and not so obvious. Thanks for the descriptors Brad. If I were looking at these two cabs without even hearing them I would be leaning towards the BBC mainly for the slant face and side vents. That's without even knowing the internals.
I'm a little late to the party but if I come up with an idea for a cab, and use or expertise to design it, for my company, then at an opportune time for you you stop making my cab and produce one with the same desgin under your company name(yeah it pretty much the same design) then yeah that's a bit shady...
Zero value add to the conversation, especially since the differences were clearly explained.
Read the last few pages of this thread. Your story bears no resemblance to the facts. Nothing shady about it.
Yeah I read the whole thing, it's was a partnership. have gave you guys some liberties with the design and use there of, ideally he should have just contracted you, maybe give you a percentage of every cab that was sold instead of bringing you guys a close as he did. You saw an opportunity to capitalize on a design that wasn't patented, I got it. Nuff said.
Let me see if I've got this straight.
With the BBC cabs the second woofer fires into the open lower chamber, right? With the Lil G the second driver also fires into the open lower chamber but a port fires into it as well?
How do these differ from the Schroeder and Xsonics cabs? I thought that Schroeder was the first using this design for bass cabs. (this approach has been used in hifi for quite a while)
At the Veasley Bass camp a year ago I met---I assume it was Drue--or was it you, Brad? In either case, very nice guy. With all of that cool Tolex work it got me seriously into considering doing Tolex as well!
With the BBC cabs the second woofer fires into the open lower chamber, right? With the Lil G the second driver also fires into the open lower chamber but a port fires into it as well?
How do these differ from the Schroeder and Xsonics cabs? I thought that Schroeder was the first using this design for bass cabs. (this approach has been used in hifi for quite a while)
At the Veasley Bass camp a year ago I met---I assume it was Drue--or was it you, Brad? In either case, very nice guy. With all of that cool Tolex work it got me seriously into considering doing Tolex as well!
No, that's not enough said unless you feel you have the right to make things up.
As it is you are clueless about what happened... yet you speak as if you do. Who are you (your name?) and what role did you play in this? My experience is first hand.
If you're here to give Pastor Glass advice on how he should've handled this, knock yourselves out. The entire "conflict" was made up. But then... if you were directly involved you'd know that. Everyone else who was involved knows the truth and it bears no resemblance to your story.
I wish we were done with this nonsense but some people, particularly ill-informed people, still seem to have an axe to grind. Grind away and I'll keep correcting it.
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Hi Mike. Yeah we met briefly at thst camp. I think you met Drue too. We had a few guys banging away most of the day... lots of noise.
The Xsonic appeared to be a copy of the Lil G with an extra port. I never brought that up here before. They didn't make them for long and switched to traditional designs.
Schroeder had their interior drivers mounts on angled baffle boards, similar to Tech Soundsystems' earlier cabs which AFAIK is where that type of driver orientation started for bass. I currently own an older Tech 212, a Schroeder 1210L and two Glasstone cabs, all ported cabs.
The Tanks are sealed cabs with a lower driver firing down and out through three openings.
