Boutique Basses 10k and up?

[Baird6869]

You're thinking retail my friend. If you bought 1000 sets of EMG pups you'd get them for around twelve bucks apiece. That's a fact. A preamp? There are preamps in $200 guitars. They can't cost more than five or six bucks to make. So one that's super high quality , I'd say around $50 wholesale in bulk. That's hardly half of $500.

I am not "thinking retail" in any way. You are comparing apples to oranges.

Big difference between the "$12 EMGs" in a Korean Spector and what goes into Spector's American made basses. Same as the Duncans in my Fodera being completely different than the Duncans in my $299 Squier.

Talk to Mike Pope, Nordstrand, Sadowsky, Demeter or Haz Lab to see if they will sell you 1000 preamps for $5-6 each.

The majority of the cost of a $10,000-ish bass is absolutely labour. But I completely disagree that the highest quality "parts" can be sourced for $400-500 per bass.... regardless of the volume.

 

[oldfretless]

20 years ago I won 2 national championships in Harley drag racing. IMHO, I was not the best rider. But I was, and am, a decent engine builder. My point is, equipment matters. I never drove 1000 miles to a race without my best engine. I gig with 2 Foderas, treat them like tools, because that's what they are, and have no interest in playing a gig with anything other that what will make me sound and play best. Anyone should play with what THEY feel makes them play best, be it a Fender, Alembic, or whatever.

 

[cronker]

Wow. 7 pages in and no one has mentioned:

The reason people but $10K basses is because they have a small penis.

J/K

 

[Vintage P]

Zentner said: ↑
Silver is substantially more expensive than Copper as far as pickup and capacitor materials go.

↑

Were talking about the work involved in carving/inlaying knobs with 7 pieces of wood each. This takes time, and time is money. The instrument IS art.
.......


Yes, but that's cosmetic. As I said in my original post, most complex (expensive) workmanship is involved with the cosmetics. I understand it's art. It's the art of carpentry and I respect that. But I don't want to pay for someone else's art. I want to make my own and want a good tool to do it.

 

[HolmeBass]

I have seen a lot of very pricey basses that look ugly as all get out to me.. One thing I like about the MTDs and Laklands and even some Foderas and Padulas etc that I have seen .. is that the form is classically functional.. Form without function in an instrument to me is a waste..

Ritter's are the epitome of form follows function. The few I have had the pleasure to play were awesomely playable instruments. Even better than Foderas. Jens is a genius in my opinion.

 

[PortlandBass77]

That's the point. You can't find a bass that's just as good for 2k or less, otherwise all these boutique companies would be out of business, which they are clearly not.

No, this is a common trick that even major corporations such as Apple use. If a product costs more money than the competition, people will assume that the product is of a higher quality, when in reality 90% of the time it is not.

 

[josiah goldfish]

No, this is a common trick that even major corporations such as Apple use. If a product costs more money than the competition, people will assume that the product is of a higher quality, when in reality 90% of the time it is not.

What a load of nonsense. A bass made with the highest attention to detail by a master of his/her craft is going to be better made than a bass made by robots and underpaid employees. This comment is just ridiculous, it's like saying a painting by a toddler with no artistic talent is better than a painting by a master like Da Vinci or Gaugin. Or a car made by robots and underpaid employees in Korea compared to a car made by Rolls-Royce (for example).

I know which one I'd choose.

 

[drumsnbass]

Some of you need to walk into a custom woodworking shop someday. The place where they sell the labors of various wood artists where a table can run $4-10k depending on style and wood. I can get a table at Ikea for a lot less, but it just ain't the same table...

 

[josiah goldfish]

Some of you need to walk into a custom woodworking shop someday. The place where they sell the labors of various wood artists where a table can run $4-10k depending on style and wood. I can get a table at Ikea for a lot less, but it just ain't the same table...

Exactly, to say the Ikea table's the same thing is absurd and, quite frankly, disrespectful and offensive to the maker.

 

[PortlandBass77]

What a load of nonsense. A bass made with the highest attention to detail by a master of his/her craft is going to be better made than a bass made by robots and underpaid employees. This comment is just ridiculous, it's like saying a painting by a toddler with no artistic talent is better than a painting by a master like Da Vinci or Gaugin. Or a car made by robots and underpaid employees in Korea compared to a car made by Rolls-Royce (for example).

I know which one I'd choose.

Wow dude, my comment flew completely over your head. For example, Apple prices their phones and services at an average of 20-30% more than competitors, when the majority of people agree that their products are lower quality. Back to basses, you can get a handcrafted by a master luthier bass for around $2k, and I doubt a bass for a ridiculous $10k would be all that better. Someone needs to do a blindfolded test of a Fender MIM p bass, a Fender MIA P bass, a custom USA P bass in the $2k to $4k range, and a USA P bass in the $10k range. I would bet on the MIA Fender winning.

 

[HolmeBass]

Who in their right mind is going to pay $10K for a P-bass? The $10K basses are much more involved and flexible than a P-bass. That's sort of the point.

 

[malthumb]

.....Apple prices their phones and services at an average of 20-30% more than competitors, when the majority of people agree that their products are lower quality. Back to basses, you can get a handcrafted by a master luthier bass for around $2k, and I doubt a bass for a ridiculous $10k would be all that better. ....

What this demonstrates is that in large part, the buying public does not react to only one metric. Let's suppose that people DO agree that Apple products are of lower quality (personally I don't subscribe to that theory, but let's stipulate). The fact that people not only buy them, but often pay MORE for them indicates that Apple is doing something else better than others. As long as their quality falls within a certain band of acceptability, customers can now start by making decisions across other attributes such as

• User interface (Apple strong point)
• Customer service / ability to fix things gone wrong (Apple does a really good job with that. Once replaced a monochrome screen iPod I had with a color screen version with more memory)
• Integration of accessories and content. iPod didn't really start selling until iTunes came into being.

Now, apply that to basses. There is a certain quality threshold that must be met for a bass to be "pro-quality". There is another threshold of content and workmanship that must be met in order to be considered "custom" or "high end" or "boutique". Those terms and groupings are not interchangeable, but they do overlap a little bit. For some people, that second threshold of quality and/or content is not required. These folks are content with a well made conventional instrument. Others want or need that greater level of content, and for them, the price to obtain it is what it is. As is often repeated, Fodera, Alembic, MTD, Roscoe, have long waiting lists for their instruments. An obvious indicator that someone thinks they are worth it

 

[josiah goldfish]

PortlandBass77, what you're saying is that a factory line MIA P bass is better made than a handmade bass from a luthier that's spent years training in his/her craft. I'm training to be a luthier myself and, quite frankly, your comment is just plain rude. How about you go and build some kind of musical instrument and we'll tell you how much better some cheap production line instrument is?

If the world didn't have craftspeople, it would be one hell of a boring place.

 

[drumsnbass]

What this demonstrates is that in large part, the buying public does not react to only one metric. Let's suppose that people DO agree that Apple products are of lower quality (personally I don't subscribe to that theory, but let's stipulate). The fact that people not only buy them, but often pay MORE for them indicates that Apple is doing something else better than others. As long as their quality falls within a certain band of acceptability, customers can now start by making decisions across other attributes such as

• User interface (Apple strong point)
• Customer service / ability to fix things gone wrong (Apple does a really good job with that. Once replaced a monochrome screen iPod I had with a color screen version with more memory)
• Integration of accessories and content. iPod didn't really start selling until iTunes came into being.

Now, apply that to basses. There is a certain quality threshold that must be met for a bass to be "pro-quality". There is another threshold of content and workmanship that must be met in order to be considered "custom" or "high end" or "boutique". Those terms and groupings are not interchangeable, but they do overlap a little bit. For some people, that second threshold of quality and/or content is not required. These folks are content with a well made conventional instrument. Others want or need that greater level of content, and for them, the price to obtain it is what it is. As is often repeated, Fodera, Alembic, MTD, Roscoe, have long waiting lists for their instruments. An obvious indicator that someone thinks they are worth it

I am no Apple fanboy but I still own an i(diot)Phone and several iPods and an iPad. Why? The store and the ease of use.

I agree there is better out there, but not in seamless integration which is most important to me.

Never owned a Mac or similar and doubt I ever will.

 

[PortlandBass77]

PortlandBass77, what you're saying is that a factory line MIA P bass is better made than a handmade bass from a luthier that's spent years training in his/her craft. I'm training to be a luthier myself and, quite frankly, your comment is just plain rude. How about you go and build some kind of musical instrument and we'll tell you how much better some cheap production line instrument is?

If the world didn't have craftspeople, it would be one hell of a boring place.

Ok someone who has that kind of money do the blindfold test then and we will see who is correct.

 

[HolmeBass]

Re: Apple - their hardware is no longer the best, but their OS is still considered, by most, to be superior. Add in their cross-platform integration and services, and the excellent cohesion of design across those various platforms and services, and that's why they are still #1.

Basses are different. There is no operating system. PortlandBass77 what I suggest is that *you* find and try out a high-end bass sometime, I think you're going to be very surprised at what you discover.

 

[nostatic]

What does this mythical "blindfold test" look like? What is your hypothesis, sample size, how are you going to control variables, etc?

 

[nostatic]

Re: Apple - their hardware is no longer the best, but their OS is still considered, by most, to be superior. Add in their cross-platform integration and services, and the excellent cohesion of design across those various platforms and services, and that's why they are still #1.

It is a specious premise in the first place. "Most people" do not think that Apple stuff is inferior. If they did, the company would not be where it is today. The people who tend to slag Apple are typically computer geeks who get hung up on specific metrics, often in isolation to the broader ecosystem. The user experience is king, but most technology companies (and by extension, most technologists) don't really understand that fact. Witness the rise and fall of countless companies who focused on having the fastest or the biggest while ignoring the bigger picture. Apple is far from perfect, but they nail certain aspects of the industry, and invariably provide a higher quality user experience for a broader spectrum of the population.

Playing bass involves a system that is beyond just the instrument itself. Objective metrics have limited ability to really tell the broader story, and that narrative is different for different people. Some people can't afford a $10K bass. Some people can afford one, but don't want one for a variety of reasons. Owning an expensive bass doesn't make someone any better or worse than someone else - they just happen to have an expensive bass. And some may only own it for the high price. And that's ok. Most people could tell the difference between a $100 bass and a $10K bass just on visuals alone. Now $1K vs $10K? A smaller number of people would be able to tell the difference. Beyond the bling, at some point you're getting into subtle playability and tone difference that not everyone either cares about or can even discern. That still doesn't make anyone better or worse than anyone else - everyone has their own viewpoint and experiences to the table and that will color the interaction with the instrument. I've often argued that the blind test are largely meaningless. Playing bass involves a number of factors and personal bias is one of them. It can never be removed, so why try and come up with some "scientific" study to find "the truth." Humans making music is too nuanced for that. Art and science can coexist, but trying to turn music into math usually leads to failure. Unless you're reading music

 

[josiah goldfish]

Ok someone who has that kind of money do the blindfold test then and we will see who is correct.

How can you do a blindfold test on art? That's what you get when you buy a handmade bass, functional art: Superb craftsmanship, great playability, stunning materials, and the knowledge that the maker of the instrument actually cared about making a superior product. Just because an original da Vinci sketch looks like its photocopy, doesn't make the photocopy 'just as good as' the Da Vinci piece.

 

[josiah goldfish]

A Fender may sound like a Fodera, a photocopy may look like a Da Vinci. There's more to it than just one quality in the whole.

EDIT: For the record, I don't think a Fender sounds like a Fodera.