Boutique Basses 10k and up?

[PortlandBass77]

How can you do a blindfold test on art? That's what you get when you buy a handmade bass, functional art: Superb craftsmanship, great playability, stunning materials, and the knowledge that the maker of the instrument actually cared about making a superior product. Just because an original da Vinci sketch looks like its photocopy, doesn't make the photocopy 'just as good as' the Da Vinci piece.

Well in that case most of the vintage Peavey's are hand crafted, such as the first 2 years of the T series (1978 and 1979). And that agrees with my argument because vintage Peavey's are wonderful instruments and they cost welllllllllll under $10k. (I have never seen them sell for over $900).

 

[wvbass]

Well in that case most of the vintage Peavey's are hand crafted, such as the first 2 years of the T series (1978 and 1979). And that agrees with my argument because vintage Peavey's are wonderful instruments and they cost welllllllllll under $10k. (I have never seen them sell for over $900).

Weren't the T-40s the first CNC basses? Depends on how much CNC work was done, but that could go against this "hand crafted" statement. I think US Peavey's are great, FWIW. I have three: a T-40, a Sarzo, and a Dyna Unity. This is my second Sarzo; those basses hold up well against any price point, IMO.

Edit: thought so. Rather than Peavey guitars being "hand crafted," they were in fact the guitars that led manufacturing AWAY from being handcrafted. The timeline on Peavey's site also confirms this.

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Or, take a look at 1977: Invalid Link Removed

 

[PortlandBass77]

Weren't the T-40s the first CNC basses? Depends on how much CNC work was done, but that could go against this "hand crafted" statement. I think US Peavey's are great, FWIW. I have three: a T-40, a Sarzo, and a Dyna Unity. This is my second Sarzo; those basses hold up well against any price point, IMO.

Edit: thought so. Rather than Peavey guitars being "hand crafted," they were in fact the guitars that led manufacturing AWAY from being handcrafted. The timeline on Peavey's site also confirms this.

Invalid Link Removed

Or, take a look at 1977: Invalid Link Removed

Huh, it looks like you are right but this is strange, I even had a 1980's Peavey Fury that said "Handcrafted in the USA".....

 

[PortlandBass77]

Weren't the T-40s the first CNC basses? Depends on how much CNC work was done, but that could go against this "hand crafted" statement. I think US Peavey's are great, FWIW. I have three: a T-40, a Sarzo, and a Dyna Unity. This is my second Sarzo; those basses hold up well against any price point, IMO.

Edit: thought so. Rather than Peavey guitars being "hand crafted," they were in fact the guitars that led manufacturing AWAY from being handcrafted. The timeline on Peavey's site also confirms this.

Invalid Link Removed

Or, take a look at 1977: Invalid Link Removed

Easier than I thought to find the photo:

Serial indicates 1989

 

[narud]

we now are on talkmetrics not talkbass

 

[Thombas]

Huh, it looks like you are right but this is strange, I even had a 1980's Peavey Fury that said "Handcrafted in the USA".....

If I was a manufacturer of something, you would be my dream consumer

 

[PortlandBass77]

If I was a manufacturer of something, you would be my dream consumer

? Why? I am a very cheap person and always look for the right deals (as long as they aren't at Walmart lol). Also I usually buy used so all of the money is going to a 3rd party. Or are you bashing Peavey? I'm sorry but I find 1970's and 1980's Peaveys to be the highest quality, best sounding, most reliable instruments BY FAR for the price.

 

[josiah goldfish]

I'm not going to bother continuing this conversation. Those guitars are $2000 because they're not made by master craftsmen. Does Montoleone make $2000 guitars? Of course not, because they're made by someone with decades of experience who is recognised as a skilled craftsman.

Don't get me wrong, my friend makes classical guitars and they're the best I've played. He only charges £2000 but then he doesn't make very much money off of them anyway and he's a young guy. His guitars may play like they're worth more, but he lacks the experience and years of building up his name to demand a higher price.

 

[StayLow]

I'm not going to bother continuing this conversation. Those guitars are $2000 because they're not made by master craftsmen. Does Montoleone make $2000 guitars? Of course not, because they're made by someone with decades of experience who is recognised as a skilled craftsman.

Don't get me wrong, my friend makes classical guitars and they're the best I've played. He only charges £2000 but then he doesn't make very much money off of them anyway and he's a young guy. His guitars may play like they're worth more, but he lacks the experience and years of building up his name to demand a higher price.

If a world-famous player starts playing/endorsing your friend's guitars and he triples the price because his name is built up, are his guitars suddenly 3x better? What if he raises prices by 50% to cover rent in a new shop in "the city"? What if he boost the price to adds top woods that do nothing for playability or tone, they'll look better to some people and uglier to others ... will they play better?

Is Mike Lull a "master craftsman"? [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

His "Basses" page reads "Handcrafted Custom Basses" at the top. They're also Plek'd which means nobody is going to have better fretwork. Here' a 5-string of his, retail asking price $2662 and that's before a discount of at least 10-15% I'm sure you could get by just haggling a little. Invalid Link Removed

Is any of that anything other than top-of-the-line hardware? And it looks like a bird's-eye fingerboard, plus it's a 5-string so add $ for that and I'm thinking a 4-string is right around $2k street price. Someone could prefer something different, fancier, more exclusive and expensive, in which case good on 'em, but they'd be unable to prove it's better than the Lull on any empirical or functional/practical level.

Disclosure: I don't own a Lull. I do own and play other jazz bass "clones" that cost 2-3x the Lull and I am sure mine are no better.

 

[eukatheude]

There are tons of great builders who I would call master craftsmen that charge a lot less.
Check out Prometeus Guitars' work:
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And he charges from 1300€ up... Though I understand there are other variables. For instance he seems to be using OEM hardware, while some manufacturers make their own bridges and tuners.
Still, some other manufacturers use Hipshot bridges and EMGs, and ask 5000$ and up...

 

[Bisounourse]

There are tons of great builders who I would call master craftsmen that charge a lot less.
Check out Prometeus Guitars' work:
And he charges from 1300€ up... Though I understand there are other variables. For instance he seems to be using OEM hardware, while some manufacturers make their own bridges and tuners.
Still, some other manufacturers use Hipshot bridges and ask 5000$ and up...

Starting price is 1150 €

And ssssshhht, I have heavy GAS for a bass from him... (I'm saving money as we speak).

 

[josiah goldfish]

For sure, that's what I was trying to say. My guitar making friend has 'only' made 100 guitars, which is considered quite little compared to other luthiers. I also think his guitars are better than those who charge a lot more, so how the makers choose to value their instruments plays a big part in all this as well.

What I was saying, is that I don't feel it's fair to compare a production line bass to a handmade bass. Most basses in the $10,000 range are what I'd consider made by master luthiers. To compare a cheaply made factory bass to these is unfair to the maker and disrespectful, as they've put the years of effort into perfecting their craft and creating the highest quality instrument. That's not to say those luthiers in the $2000 range aren't as good, it usually just means they haven't been doing it as long or that they decide that they don't need to charge anymore.

All I'm really trying to say is that it's unfair to compare a production line instrument to one made by a skilled artisan, whether that person charges $2000 or $10,000 (but it's especially unfair to compare a production line instrument to one made by a master luthier).

I'm sorry if I've come across as being insulting or grouchy, I'm just a bit upset at the lack of respect for these people who dedicate years to their craft. I've wanted to make instruments since I was 10, and I'm now going to college with the intention of attending an apprenticeship under a highly skilled violin maker. I'm just a little upset that something I love so much is being compared to corporations and businesses that only care about money.

EDIT: I meant to say 'any more', but I don't seem to be capable of changing it on my phone. I didn't mean they don't charge anything!

 

[eukatheude]

Starting price is 1150 €

And ssssshhht, I have heavy GAS for a bass from him... (I'm saving money as we speak).

Same here. The next >1000€ bass I buy (which will be in a few years time) is going to be a 5 string, quasi-unlined fretless Stalker with 36 frets and 35" scale.
By the way, 1150€ is exactly my monthly pay...

 

[eukatheude]

For sure, that's what I was trying to say. My guitar making friend has 'only' made 100 guitars, which is considered quite little compared to other luthiers. I also think his guitars are better than those who charge a lot more, so how the makers choose to value their instruments plays a big part in all this as well.

What I was saying, is that I don't feel it's fair to compare a production line bass to a handmade bass. Most basses in the $10,000 range are what I'd consider made by master luthiers. To compare a cheaply made factory bass to these is unfair to the maker and disrespectful, as they've put the years of effort into perfecting their craft and creating the highest quality instrument. That's not to say those luthiers in the $2000 range aren't as good, it usually just means they haven't been doing it as long or that they decide that they don't need to charge anymore.

All I'm really trying to say is that it's unfair to compare a production line instrument to one made by a skilled artisan, whether that person charges $2000 or $10,000 (but it's especially unfair to compare a production line instrument to one made by a master luthier).

I'm sorry if I've come across as being insulting or grouchy, I'm just a bit upset at the lack of respect for these people who dedicate years to their craft. I've wanted to make instruments since I was 10, and I'm now going to college with the intention of attending an apprenticeship under a highly skilled violin maker. I'm just a little upset that something I love so much is being compared to corporations and businesses that only care about money.

EDIT: I meant to say 'any more', but I don't seem to be capable of changing it on my phone. I didn't mean they don't charge anything!

I agree on that with you. What I'm doing (can't answer for others) is comparing artisan level 2k basses to 10k basses...

 

[josiah goldfish]

I agree on that with you. What I'm doing (can't answer for others) is comparing artisan level 2k basses to 10k basses...

Yes, I agree that a $2000 bass can be as good as a $10,000 bass by people of similar quality. As I said, different people feel their work is worth different values.

Fender, on the other hand, try and make as much money as possible with the least amount of loss. Fender basses can sound as good as $10,000 basses, even play as good, but they are not handcrafted, and they are solely made with the intention of making a profit.

 

[svlilioukalani]

It appears that few people understand what goes into an Alembic bass that costs over $10,000. They also do not understand the level of individualality that goes into each Alembic. When I read stuff like there neck is too thick or the body is too heavy. I just see a lack of knowlege talking. Each Alembic is custom made for that individual owner who ordered the bass. That neck was just right for the guy who ordered it.

Yes, there is a price point where the sound does not get better. At that point it is about bass bling, and individuality. I recomend reading the stories behind the making of each Alembic bass of the month. It will help to understand what modivates the building of the high end Alembic's. I also recomend reading some of the build threds on the Alembic site. Few people understand the time and work that goes into an Alembic Bass. Alembic has a small shop and nobody is getting rich there.

The time and effort that goes into matching the woodgrain on the cover over the electronic's cavity blows me away. It can't be done quickly or by a midlevel craftsman. The inlay work on some Alembic bass displays the highest level of craftsmanship. An Alembic bass that costs over $10,000 is a work of art in it self. Then Ron W. bench tests every bass befor it leaves the shop.

Some people are inspired by just looking at art hanging on the wall. To be able to make music with art is inspirational. It helps take players to the next level.

 

[DigitalMan]

There are two ways to take the OP question:

"What the hell is wrong with you idiots buying $10k basses"

- or -

"For those of you who buy $10k basses, how do you rationalize the purchase price to yourself and what factors weigh in on the decision?"

Perhaps we are quick to choose the more cynical interpretation.

 

[Stick_Player]

I'd be fired if I showed up with this monstrosity!

There are tons of great builders who I would call master craftsmen that charge a lot less.
Check out Prometeus Guitars' work:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

And he charges from 1300€ up... Though I understand there are other variables. For instance he seems to be using OEM hardware, while some manufacturers make their own bridges and tuners.
Still, some other manufacturers use Hipshot bridges and ask 5000$ and up...

$10,000 will get you a very good Double Bass. But, not a Pro-level instrument.

Quit whining.

 

[eukatheude]

I'd be fired if I showed up with this monstrosity!

Because the fact that you don't like the design is a clear indication of an incompetent builder.

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

So you honestly believe that the materials involved in making a $10,000 bass is $400-500 TOPS? IMO, you are dreaming.

Show me where I can buy the highest quality (AAAAA) top/fretboard, the best quality body and neck woods, highest quality tuners, bridge, preamp, custom wound pickups, nut and finishing materials for $400-500. Add quality strings, straplocks, pots/wiring/knobs/jack and hardshell case to that of course.

A good set of Nordy, Aguilar, Duncan or EMG pickups paired with a high end preamp takes care of well over 1/2 of your $400-500, even when buying in bulk.

Outside of man time I am pretty sure most Foderas are less than $1000 in parts. There was a post where Jason said the cost of one of the Fodera basses and it was not overly high. Why would it be? They use run-of-the-mill woods on most basses.

That being said, I can only imagine what their overhead is without even counting employee cost.