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Branford Marsalis' take on students today

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Been a high school teacher for 5 years (not music) and I can say the Kids HAVE NOT CHANGED.......The Parents have....



For the most part kids have indeed changed. I like to refer to them as being part of the microwave generation.

Most make no serious effort or the time to work towards a goal and earn what they think they want. They want it right at the moment of asking for it.
 
Sometimes people who come off as arrogant really do know what they're talking about ;)

I was just about to say the same thing.We live in a time where people's life experiences is not given the just due that it deserves and other's opinion is supposed to carry the same weight.Brandford really did play with Art Blakey and a bunch of other legends plus make grammy award winning CD's himself and head up a jazz division at a major label and own his own label. So the idea that someone can speak with authority about things that have actually HAPPENED in their life actually offensive to some
 
^That may be true, but humans are humans. They make mistakes and generalizations, and hold grudges. There's some truth in what Branford is saying, but I agree with Fdeck -- there's a bit of both going on here.

Also... I'm not saying that I'm personally offended by Branford, I'm not... but approaching things in a less hostile way is often a "wiser" move, and you'll reach a wider audience because not everyone knows or understands who he is, especially non-jazz musicians, and most especially non-musicians...
 
I was just about to say the same thing.We live in a time where people's life experiences is not given the just due that it deserves and other's opinion is supposed to carry the same weight.Brandford really did play with Art Blakey and a bunch of other legends plus make grammy award winning CD's himself and head up a jazz division at a major label and own his own label. So the idea that someone can speak with authority about things that have actually HAPPENED in their life actually offensive to some


Thank you Will.




^That may be true, but humans are humans. They make mistakes and generalizations, and hold grudges. There's some truth in what Branford is saying, but I agree with Fdeck -- there's a bit of both going on here.

Also... I'm not saying that I'm personally offended by Branford, I'm not... but approaching things in a less hostile way is often a "wiser" move, and you'll reach a wider audience because not everyone knows or understands who he is, especially non-jazz musicians, and most especially non-musicians...



Branford has his experience(s) and maybe he's seen enough bs from students(I know I have) to make the general opinion that he's made.

I'm not mad at him.
 
For the most part kids have indeed changed. I like to refer to them as being part of the microwave generation.

Most make no serious effort or the time to work towards a goal and earn what they think they want. They want it right at the moment of asking for it.

I have seen this across generations - but I have also seen the kids and adults who've had to work to achieve their goals gain a good perspective and sense of responsibility.

The generation that came through the 1st Great Depression tended not to feel entitled because they almost all had to scuffle for everything they got. Hunger pangs give one perspective quickly.

The generation after that (boomers?) split; the entitled ones I've known seemed to have gaming the system as their life's priority ("I got this 6 figure job where I can just stare at the walls if I want to") and passed this thinking on to their kids.

The boomers who worked their derrieres off ran into a conflict - if they held their kids accountable for doing their work/lessons, they often ran into teachers and other parents from the group above, and a society that was believing without proof that coddling made better students. Holding your kids' feet to the fire was considered child abuse.

The kids have either gotten this message without fail all their lives (until running into a teacher or two like Branford - such a relief!) or gotten both messages, one from home and one from school. Eventually they hit the real world and either figure it out, or become lifelong victims since someone else is always responsible for their failures.

Sadly, the latter group seems to be more common now, but with the present economy, a lot of them might learn to buck up, along with their parents.
 
For the most part kids have indeed changed. I like to refer to them as being part of the microwave generation.

Most make no serious effort or the time to work towards a goal and earn what they think they want. They want it right at the moment of asking for it.
Well, I certainly see the arrogance shining through. Whether you know what you're talking about is another story.
 
As someone who forswore teaching the instrument long ago in any way save the occasional '"How'd you do that?""Like this"' music store instructional anecdote offered in passing to the curious, I'm inclined to agree with Mr. Marsalis' basic premise, if not necessarily the generalizations...But I would opine that it is not just the current generation, the societal virus of choosing shortcuts and quick gratification at the expense of self-honesty and sweat equity goes back quite farther than that.

One thing that hasn't changed (and never will) is the utter mediocrity of those who seek to catapult themselves above the throng with such an approach.
Whatever your targeted skill set, tone, chops level, personal desirability,etc. the only way to rise above and meet/beat your own subjective expectations is to focus and practice - strengthen the weaknesses and refine the strengths in an ongoing disciplined process.

:bassist:
 
Well, I certainly see the arrogance shining through. Whether you know what you're talking about is another story.

You're actually questioning if Branford Marsalis knows what he's talking about?

:eek:

:scowl:

...who would, Pete Wentzl?


...wow...


I just don't see any "arrogance" in that clip whatsoever, what I see is the frustration and exhaustion of an educator swimming against the tide, and letting it out.

Dude can certainly "back it up", on the bandstand, on the stage, and in the teaching studio.
 
I see.

I have been fortunate enough to hang with Jauqo, you couldn't be more wrong.

If you're referring to me, you really don't have a clue.

:)

If you're referring to Gard, your flat wrong;) There's not an ounce of arrogance there. (Unless it's football season:smug:)
Ignorance either. The guy is a Britannica esque mind when it comes to bass/music.

Jauqo is provacative and has strong opinions but he also has a wealth of knowledge and experience few others will attain.

I'd dig learning from either of these guys.

Apathy is rampant in American culture. That's what I took from Branford's opinion.

:)

God Bless, Ray
 
It's funny Wynton and Branford are very talented,well traveled experienced,accomplished musicians whose viewpoints are lighting rods for a whole group of people.The fact that they are not afraid to make social commentary is why I like both of them although I don't agree with everything they say and strongly disagree on somethings. But I keep coming back to this; while everybody has the right to have a opinion some peoples opinions are more qualified than others
 
Been a high school teacher for 5 years (not music) and I can say the Kids HAVE NOT CHANGED.......The Parents have....

We're not omnipotent. Just saying.

Our kids are bombarded with conflicting messages, from parents, school, other kids, the electronic media, and so forth. Some messages from school:

You are proficient when you are not, because the state has lowered the proficiency standards in response to "accountability."

This homework is important when it is a year or two below your grade level, because we are cramming for the standardized test.

We can't completely isolate our kids from negative or substandard expectations. We don't have billions of dollars to design messages that compete with the captivating and exciting messages of commercial media.

But we do our best. We are as aware as anybody about the folklore surrounding the young generation. Some of us are academics, or have been teachers. Clearly, we don't want our kids to become self-entitled brats -- that would go against basic self preservation. Why would I want my kids to be irresponsible? We talk with other parents about raising our kids. We pressure the schools to raise standards. We (at least in Madison WI) support funding referenda to keep the schools open.

We taught our kids to read. We tutor them in math and science, and take them to classical music lessons -- possibly the largest source of employment for musicians in my locale. We are aware of global standards for education because we live in a community with a lot of immigrant parents.

There are some influences that we don't even understand, such as genetics and the chemical environment. Why do more kids have ADHD? Is it even real? Should we drug them into a stupor for the convenience of their teachers?

And I have to admit that I wasn't perfect when I was a kid. I depended on the safety net provided by my family, and perhaps by a more laid back society. I didn't pay a dime for my education. I had the luxury to choose a career that I enjoy, rather than try to guess which career will make me employable.

Part of telling our kids that they are "special" is a backlash against our own childhood experiences, when kids were "labeled" and subjected to lowered expectations. So the logic goes that if kids can be beaten down by lower expectations, they can be raised up by higher expectations. That could be right or wrong, but it's what we are trying, and when we find out that it's wrong, it will be too late. :D
 
As someone who just recently graduated from high school, I can tell you that there is truth in what he is saying. But it is unfair to make assumptions that all students today expect things to be given to them and to be told that they are great even when they aren't. Most of the people going off to good colleges had to work really hard to get there (especially now since most colleges here are impacted), and they also know that even MORE hard work is in store for them. The people that spent more time texting and getting drunk than studying arent going anywhere. (thats not to say all people who dont go to college are lazy, I know that not everyone wants/needs to go to college to be happy or to fufill their dreams).

The difference between encouragement and lying to not hurt someones feelings is a fine one, and the latter can be a very bad thing. I think that encouragement is a better way to teach simply because it can encourage people to keep going. Dont hide their faults from them, but dont dwell on them so much that the student simply gives up.

I've never taken lessons, and I know that alot of 7th graders know more about music theory right now than I'll ever know, and I dont care. I enjoy playing and learning on my own. I dont pretend or think that I am really good, I would like to improve, but for the most part, I'm happy with my playing and that's all that matters.

BTW... to all the people who put this country into its current economic situation, thanks, you did my generation a solid.:spit:

just my two cents.
 
Didnt read all the responses but it seems at least kind of a general consensus that its the coddling/you always did a great job no matter what/participation award parenting that breeds this kind of behavior. I believe that to be true, im also not one to turn everything into a race issue but sometimes I feel like minority parents(black, Hispanic, asian, etc.) are more likely to actually reprimand a child or at least not tell them they've done a good job when they really and obviously haven't. I'm not saying there are any more or less minority children with entitled attitudes(cuz I also believe it can be learned from peers and the general lack of parenting at all in some minority groups breeds it.) but I think there's a real divide here when it comes to race. I know my parents disciplined me for bad grades and I never once heard them blame my teachers or school or anything other than me for anything that happened in the classroom. In the end ,y parents taught me you hafta do the work for what you want and aren't entitled to anything, I think I've carried that into my adult life.
 
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