Cabinet under powering?

[JimmyM]

I can imagine it started like this.

People believed the advertised power rating of their cabs, bought a 700 watt cab to go with their 300 watt amp. Feeling safe because of the numbers, they boosted the hell out of the bass and volume and toasted a speaker. Then some sales guy told them that they killed the cab from under powering it so he could sell them a larger amp. Then dude was more conservative with his more powerful amp and didnt bow his cab and assumed it was true. Then someone cooked up some junk science reason for it and the myth was born.

I think that is EXACTLY how it happened.

 

[Arjank]

My man, you're forgetting the DNA DNS210. If David Eden says it'll handle 700 watts RMS, it'll handle 700 watts RMS.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Thermally yes, mechanically no (they would need to have a huge xmax to handle 700watts down to the tuning frequency of the port).

For example, the 10" drivers in my 210 have an xmax of 5.75mm (if I use Faital pro's calc method xmax would be 6.85mm), enclosure (33 liters) is tuned to 48hz. Around the tuning frequency and above 80hz they can handle 200watts (their rms rating), but around 65hz there's a small powerdip where they can handle 150watts before exceeding xmax. So, my cab would be 400watts thermally and 300watts mechanically (in the usable frequency range). This is without taking powercompression into account.
If I would want them to handle 350watts mechanically without exceeding xmax they would need an xmax of 9mm. I really doubt that the drivers in the DNS-210 have such a huge xmax since they also need to do the midrange duties....it's all about compromises.

 

[madjazzbass]

As to your question, your speakers will be less stressed if you use two 2x10" cabinets than only one. A bass cabinet power rating is not a statement of how much power the cabinet "sucks out of the amp". Rather, it is a rating of how much power the drivers will take before damage may occur, and most manufacturers are highly optimistic with their figures.

Understood, and I Thank You.

 

[madjazzbass]

Thermally yes, mechanically no (they would need to have a huge xmax to handle 700watts down to the tuning frequency of the port).

For example, the 10" drivers in my 210 have an xmax of 5.75mm (if I use Faital pro's calc method xmax would be 6.85mm), enclosure (33 liters) is tuned to 48hz. Around the tuning frequency and above 80hz they can handle 200watts (their rms rating), but around 65hz there's a small powerdip where they can handle 150watts before exceeding xmax. So, my cab would be 400watts thermally and 300watts mechanically (in the usable frequency range). This is without taking powercompression into account.
If I would want them to handle 350watts mechanically without exceeding xmax they would need an xmax of 9mm. I really doubt that the drivers in the DNS-210 have such a huge xmax since they also need to do the midrange duties....it's all about compromises.

Hmmmm? Interesting, Knowledge is "Power", Ha Haaaaa!!

 

[madjazzbass]

Barefaced says they can do 800 if you keep it clean, though 400rms is the rating.

Link Removed

Haaaaaaaaaa!! Wow! That's even MORE wattage than my puny "700 watt Avatar 2x10" (wink, wink). I can't believe I started all of this with a Li'l 'ol question of whether or not I'd be "underpowering" my two 2x10 cabs; I have learned a few things though, and had some laughs as well.

 

[Duder]

I'm not wrong, Trevor at Avatar Speakers MAY be wrong, that's where I got the info from; You seem to think I make this stuff up on my own just so I can say I'm right, Psssst, Please, Again, I don't build and or design speaker cabs and since I couldn't get a straight answer to the original question from anyone here, I called and asked the one's that DO build cabinets. I THOUGHT It was a simple question for some of you "experts on everything Bass", but instead I get crap about there's no such thing as a 700 watt 2x10 cab, Geeez!! OK, I get it, If you say there's no such cab/speakers, then I guess there isn't o.k. Done! ... and I really don't think you called and spoke with Trevor or anyone else for that matter because of ... pride maybe? G'day mate.

If Trevor at Avatar is wrong he, unfortunately, makes you wrong. I don't think you made this up, but you were misinformed by someone you trusted to have the answer to your question. The fact is that there is no Delta Pro 10" LF. A search on the Eminence site confirms that. [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] There are other 10" speakers, as you mentioned in this thread, that are capable of handling higher wattages, just not Delta Pros. I'm not trying to come down on you, but you asked this community for advice and have roundly rejected the information offered. Granted, some people have not been kind about it and I apologize if you found me rude. Also, to be clear, I was not the one who said they contacted Avatar. You'll have to take that up with iualum. Best of luck in your search for answers.

 

[iualum]

If Trevor at Avatar is wrong he, unfortunately, makes you wrong. I don't think you made this up, but you were misinformed by someone you trusted to have the answer to your question. The fact is that there is no Delta Pro 10" LF. A search on the Eminence site confirms that. [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] ***(as does a call to Eminence using the Eminence contact # I provided to you, or anyone else who might care to give them a ring, for that matter ... iualum insert)*** There are other 10" speakers, as you mentioned in this thread, that are capable of handling higher wattages, just not Delta Pros. I'm not trying to come down on you, but you asked this community for advice and have roundly rejected the information offered. Granted, some people have not been kind about it and I apologize if you found me rude. Also, to be clear, I was not the one who said they contacted Avatar. You'll have to take that up with iualum. Best of luck in your search for answers.

But is isn't that you presented misinformed info about the nonexistent driver. That could happen to anyone (& it isn't uncommon at all). It's your adamant stance to continue supporting it.

I think it was other guys who mentioned the other super-high RMS drivers, not the OP, but I may be incorrect here. And it's a small point anyway.

This is steadfastly undeniable.

Correct. It was me, not Duder. And have you phoned Eminence yet?

 

[dincz]

Haaaaaaaaaa!! Wow! That's even MORE wattage than my puny "700 watt Avatar 2x10" (wink, wink). I can't believe I started all of this with a Li'l 'ol question of whether or not I'd be "underpowering" my two 2x10 cabs; I have learned a few things though, and had some laughs as well.

See post#106

 

[Duder]

I think it was other guys who mentioned the other super-high RMS drivers, not the OP, but I may be incorrect here. And it's a small point anyway.

Post #63. He deserves the credit for searching. I appreciate your willingness to be incorrect

 

[iualum]

I think it was other guys who mentioned the other super-high RMS drivers, not the OP, but I may be incorrect here. And it's a small point anyway.

Post #63. He deserves the credit for searching. I appreciate your willingness to be incorrect

Yes. Fine. I was incorrect there as I said I might have been. Didn't feel like going back through the entire thread to search for this. Was much easier to make a qualifying statement. And as mentioned, a small point to begin with .

 

[hsp-sandiego]

Yeah Man, Thanks, it sounds great with just the one cab., but I'm definitely adding the 2nd one soon.

I play through this - Carvin BX500 with two GK neo 112 cabs. Gets the Job done with our Dance Variety Band...Groove-Control. it is "Just Enough" Power and Speaker - (4 piece female lead vox, guitar, funky as hell bass player ;-) and tight drummer ). Always nice to have backline with PA support as well. Playing through one of the cabs is okay. once you add the second cabinet, tone, power, bass, snap, bark, growl, come alive. Speakers seem to work better in pairs. The vertical stack is the way to go!

 

[CL400Peavey]

Noone is saying that you were wrong.

If you understand how speakers are rated, then you will understand why we are all saying that there is NOT a 2X10 out there that can handle 700w of bass.

There are, but they are not commonly available.

If you'd like, you can call up Avatar Speakers, go directly to the source like I did, and ask them if you don't believe it; it's a 700 watt 2x10 Bass cabinet, the B210 w/ Delta Pro 10 LF's inside.

Why should I trust them, or anything they have to say?

A member of the equine species can be led to H2O, ya know?

You cant make it drink, but you can hold it's head under water until it stops thrashing about.

 

[iualum]

You cant make it drink, but you can hold its head under water until it stops thrashing about.

Well, hmm ... I suppose that's another way you can look at it .

 

[Munjibunga]

Thermally yes, mechanically no (they would need to have a huge xmax to handle 700watts down to the tuning frequency of the port).

For example, the 10" drivers in my 210 have an xmax of 5.75mm (if I use Faital pro's calc method xmax would be 6.85mm), enclosure (33 liters) is tuned to 48hz. Around the tuning frequency and above 80hz they can handle 200watts (their rms rating), but around 65hz there's a small powerdip where they can handle 150watts before exceeding xmax. So, my cab would be 400watts thermally and 300watts mechanically (in the usable frequency range). This is without taking powercompression into account.
If I would want them to handle 350watts mechanically without exceeding xmax they would need an xmax of 9mm. I really doubt that the drivers in the DNS-210 have such a huge xmax since they also need to do the midrange duties....it's all about compromises.

I guess I should have put one of in my post.

 

[B-string]

I thought the "David Eden" was the giveaway ""

 

[Downunderwonder]

If Trevor at Avatar is wrong he, unfortunately, makes you wrong. I don't think you made this up, but you were misinformed by someone you trusted to have the answer to your question. The fact is that there is no Delta Pro 10" LF. A search on the Eminence site confirms that. [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] There are other 10" speakers, as you mentioned in this thread, that are capable of handling higher wattages, just not Delta Pros. I'm not trying to come down on you, but you asked this community for advice and have roundly rejected the information offered. Granted, some people have not been kind about it and I apologize if you found me rude. Also, to be clear, I was not the one who said they contacted Avatar. You'll have to take that up with iualum. Best of luck in your search for answers.

If you read the thread, OP tells how Avatar told him it's an OEM Avatar with pieces from the catalogue cobbled together on a deltapro frame.

 

[nashvillebill]

OP, you may not realize it, but you have been given technically sound answers from people on this Forum that professionally design amplifiers, speakers, and speaker cabinets. Some of these are models which you would find in your local Guitar Center. I realize you don't like their answers, but they are correct answers. Most of the folks have tried to be polite but you have insisted on arguing despite your complete lack of knowledge on the subject matter. Your final post insulting iualum, with the phrase "I don't need your kind of help" has summed up your entire attitude to this site.

So feel free to enjoy yourself somewhere else, and please don't waste our time. Unless you have a change of heart and actually want to learn something, in which case I highly suggest you apologize and then carefully read what the experts here are trying to tell you.

 

[Downunderwonder]

OP, you may not realize it, but you have been given technically sound answers from people on this Forum that professionally design amplifiers, speakers, and speaker cabinets. Some of these are models which you would find in your local Guitar Center. I realize you don't like their answers, but they are correct answers. Most of the folks have tried to be polite but you have insisted on arguing despite your complete lack of knowledge on the subject matter. Your final post insulting iualum, with the phrase "I don't need your kind of help" has summed up your entire attitude to this site.

So feel free to enjoy yourself somewhere else, and please don't waste our time. Unless you have a change of heart and actually want to learn something, in which case I highly suggest you apologize and then carefully read what the experts here are trying to tell you.

I don't know that many of the real experts have their credentials displayed so you can understand the frustration when Avatar gives out info that needs proper interpretation to be truthfully compared with the usual known universe.

 

[Munjibunga]

I thought the "David Eden" was the giveaway ""

I was the TB resident Eden whore way back in the early 2000s and, as such, was the one who took it upon himself to admonish all that there is no "David Eden." He has signed amps and stuff as David Eden, though. I still have my first Eden amp, a WT-300, that I bought new in 1996.

 

[nashvillebill]

I don't know that many of the real experts have their credentials displayed so you can understand the frustration when Avatar gives out info that needs proper interpretation to be truthfully compared with the usual known universe.

Yep, good point. It's just frustrating though when folks cop an attitude and drive off really knowledgeable members (BFM for example)...there was no need for the OP to post #123.