Club Alleva Coppolo (Part 10!)

[KJung]

Interesting view point regarding hand made vs CNC, or, can an instrument have soul if it isn't hand made.

After approx 15 years as a recording engineer at big studios and semi pro bass player, I "got a real job" (for the last 20 years) that is sales and manufacturing based. I find it unacceptable to pay $5K for a simple item like a bass guitar that is not pretty damned close to perfect; remember, we put a man on the moon 40 years ago, this is just bits of wood, metal, and plastic. Those stupid SX basses could easily be on any top 10 hit although gareed that they are far from perfect or dripping with sould. In regards to CNC being perfect; it is, but you could program random tolerance variations into it if you wanted to. I do think that it is archaic to manufacture with pin routers although it would be difficult to justify the cost of a CNC based on a low number of intruments produced; saw that JC is going CNC and hopefully the savings in labor will help lower instrument costs depending on how many years he depreciates the machinery.

BTW; never played an A/C bass but want one based on what the guy believes in, stands for, his research, and the passion he puts forth in his craft; nothing wrong with using the best tools to pursue it IMO.

+1 Wasn't doggin' the CNC AT ALL. I play two basses... an A-C and Sadowsky... love them both for different reasons.

And, as obvious as this is, we all have to remember... 'if you can play, you can play'. All this other stuff is 'whip cream on the pumpkin pie'

 

[sps500]

we end up embracing the **** people complained about fenders in the first place. inconsistency. and now we get to pay a premium for it

have you seen what comes off a cnc? theres still quite a bit of work that has to be done.

Just like Road Worn and Relic'd versions of our favourite basses.

No I haven't. I'm sure there is a lot more work to be done but I just like the thought of a hand cut piece of wood.

 

[Chef]

JimC;
I used to have reedboxes like that on my Yamaha RZ350 based track-bike....nice work there.

 

[Andrew Jones]

Hold on way off topic,,,,

Chef I raced a 350LC,Very modified rz350 Canadian, and then a tz750's (373) top end on the LC bottom. I knew that motor feakishly well.

 

[Chef]

Sweet! that woulda been....around...1987 or so for me.
I think.

 

[Andrew Jones]

By 87 I was mainly on a Hurricane.

Loudon was my home track but I made is south a bit. Where were you ?

 

[svtb15]

You have no idea how hard i have to work everyday, to not be banned from TB for the use of my foul language.. hence all the edits...

 

[Chef]

elkhart, blackhawk, brainerd, road atlanta...there's a nice track in st lou now, but there wasn't then. heartlnad in ks city ain't bad.

 

[esoxhntr]

Now , i am thinking of recreating this one.. My old LG5 in LPB.. I may go SunBurst.. still open to suggestions
Jimmy made two identical necks.. So i may get the sister neck to mine..
here is my old LG

DON'T DO IT KIRK! LOOK HOW CLOSE THE B STRING IS TO THE BINDING!

OMG! NOW THE G STRING IS TOO CLOSE TO THE CHRISTMAS TREE!

HOLY CRAP! NOW THE B STRING IS RIGHT OFF THE NECK!

BETTER JUST CLOSE THE CASE AND BURY THAT P.O.S. - TOTAL LACK OF CRAFTSMANSHIP, AND THE PICS CAN'T LIE!

 

[svtb15]

your killin me

PS .. chef has that case now..

 

[esoxhntr]

this is talk bass right? being that now all bass manufacturer discussion gets done in these club threads, im just keeping the other side of the coin out there. i almost bought one sight unseen due to the overwhelmingly positive/gushing reviews. ive now played a bunch of these, i dont agree with it all. and i never even posted the qc issues i did see on the last batch of basses i played around 6 months ago. this string alignment thing is pretty minor comparatively.

i own two f basses and posted in the f bass club that i think the alain caron sig with the piezos sounds like butt.......that didnt go over that well

Yes it is "Talk Bass", and manufacturer discussion certainly is the goal, and well as the sharing of personal experiences and preferences. However, you have a habit of punching peoples buttons. Why would anyone need to say something "sounded like butt"? That's unnecessarily inflammatory, when you could say the same thing a dozen different ways, and still get your point across. If you have something useful to say, by all means say it - just understand that nobody's going to pay much attention. And if you're going to claim that you don't care if anyone listens to your opinion, sorry, but you post your opinion way too much for that to be believable.

You've made your choices based on circumstance and preference, so have others. If you have knowledge/experience that is going provide insight, or stop someone from making a mistake - and that is clearly the case - by all means pass it on. Just remember that one man's Surf Green is another man's Smurf Puke (sorry Ken, and no disrespect intended - I really DO dig that surf green LG5).

So please Joe, say your say, just be prepared to be answered in kind when you tell folks that their choices are for crap.

 

[esoxhntr]

I tend to turn into a complete jackass like this when I'm waiting for a new instrument to arrive.

 

[svtb15]

Cant decide to make your quote my new signature or my very own thought on what i do to threads .. which is ..."I am the thread killer coo coo ka chu."

one man's Surf Green is another man's Smurf Puke

 

[narud]

Yes it is "Talk Bass", and manufacturer discussion certainly is the goal, and well as the sharing of personal experiences and preferences. However, you have a habit of punching peoples buttons. Why would anyone need to say something "sounded like butt"? That's unnecessarily inflammatory, when you could say the same thing a dozen different ways, and still get your point across. If you have something useful to say, by all means say it - just understand that nobody's going to pay much attention. And if you're going to claim that you don't care if anyone listens to your opinion, sorry, but you post your opinion way too much for that to be believable.

You've made your choices based on circumstance and preference, so have others. If you have knowledge/experience that is going provide insight, or stop someone from making a mistake - and that is clearly the case - by all means pass it on. Just remember that one man's Surf Green is another man's Smurf Puke (sorry Ken, and no disrespect intended - I really DO dig that surf green LG5).

So please Joe, say your say, just be prepared to be answered in kind when you tell folks that their choices are for crap.

well most people here have known me long enough to take the delivery of what i say for what it is. hey, to me it sounded like butt! hence the obligatory "imo" posted after it. most of the guys i have these discussions with ive been "talking" bass with for almost 10 years. how about if i say i dont care if you,esoxhntr, doesnt listen to my opinion. would that be believable? ken just told me earlier i was full of **** on the weight=tone thing....most probably dont agree with me in the first place

this would all be funnier if i was making it up. heres some comments from a couple of instrument builders after going to the ac booth at namm this year...not just bass builders.
"Orange peel, dips, wobbles"
"pickguard fit/finish was sloppy"
"blatant botched touch-up repair on the body near the neck heel"
"Uneven burst finishes"
"neck pocket gaps"

it aint just me.........

 

[Jim C]

+1 Wasn't doggin' the CNC AT ALL. I play two basses... an A-C and Sadowsky... love them both for different reasons.

And, as obvious as this is, we all have to remember... 'if you can play, you can play'. All this other stuff is 'whip cream on the pumpkin pie'

Well said Ken; going to steal that whipped cream on the pie line.

Thanks for the kind words Chef; those are for Kawa 750 triples; with Arctic Cat reeds they allow us to get very aggressive with the porting and maintain some bottom end; modeled in Solid Works and then machined in 6061-T6 aluminum billet; we were able to hold .0015" tolerance all the way down into the cavity with a large Haas mill; spent almost $400 just for some special cutters and the material was approx $25 each (4" x 3 1/2" bar stock)
Had no idea you and Andrew were crazy 2-stroke road racers and both on very nice and way-quick bikes; must have been a handful; something tells me there are a few scars to prove it!

 

[esoxhntr]

how about if i say i dont care if you,esoxhntr, doesnt listen to my opinion. would that be believable?

If I cared I could probably believe it.

So you found luthiers willing to slag Jimmy's work, huh? Big surprise - sounds like just about every high end audio show I've ever been to. the manufacturers visit each others rooms, look the gear over and barely wait until they're out of the room before the s*** talking starts.

So no, you're not alone - you've found some other guys with axes to grind. I'm sure other manufacturers have NO vested interest in pointing out the flaws of successful competition.

Look, I'm not saying Jimmy's basses are perfect, but I have played a significant number of them, and once properly strung and set up they play better and more consistently than any other bass I've ever encountered. And though nobody wants imperfection at this price point, I'm more interested in the perfection of consistency of playability and tonal quality, and am willing to work with the luthier on cosmetic issues (which I consider way less significant anyway).

Not that I care whether you read this or not.

 

[svtb15]

wow .. sounds like you have a bone to pick.. did jimmy steal your ice-cream cone?
you weren't there to see the stuff... so as far as im concerned its all hear say . and quite frankly i think you are exaggerating to a massive degree of what the truth is. In My Humble opinion of course.




Anyway about 10,000 posts so far so i guess ya need a little bump in the road now and then.

well most people here have known me long enough to take the delivery of what i say for what it is. hey, to me it sounded like butt! hence the obligatory "imo" posted after it. most of the guys i have these discussions with ive been "talking" bass with for almost 10 years. how about if i say i dont care if you,esoxhntr, doesnt listen to my opinion. would that be believable? ken just told me earlier i was full of **** on the weight=tone thing....most probably dont agree with me in the first place

this would all be funnier if i was making it up. heres some comments from a couple of instrument builders after going to the ac booth at namm this year...not just bass builders.
"Orange peel, dips, wobbles"
"pickguard fit/finish was sloppy"
"blatant botched touch-up repair on the body near the neck heel"
"Uneven burst finishes"
"neck pocket gaps"

it aint just me.........

 

[ryanowens]

I love my AC, it was made by a human that I can call on the phone and I like that.
I also have a fodera, Vintage Fenders and an Epiphone Jack Cassidy...... each is different and each is great in its own way.

If you pick it up and love it then play it, if not then put it down..... seems simple.

 

[honest abe]

we end up embracing the **** people complained about fenders in the first place. inconsistency. and now we get to pay a premium for it

have you seen what comes off a cnc? theres still quite a bit of work that has to be done.

Why is it that we're quick to point out "quality control issues" with fenders but label cosmetic flaws on AC's or other high end basses "vintage mojo"?

 

[svtb15]

+1 to your entire post.
and +1 to the part where you talked about the passion and old tools..
Its not a way to make money for him... well it is, but its more than that, it is his reason to be on earth...
there are bass builders that are in to make a huge price point and profit.. But what he and some others like Fodera and Shjold (cant spell it) do it because its like a Renaissance man. its in the blood... i dig that devotion..

he also knows vintage better than anyone that i know.. when i have a vintage question, he is the guy i go to so i dont get hosed.

Hey Kirk. You make a good point also. Basses I've owned, like Fodera's and Celinder's, that were literally made by guys with 50 year old pin routers and 'carving knives', are a bit 'funky' in a way (little quirks, etc.), but I always liked that. My Celinder's all had their 'issues', but gosh, they just killed (killed my back and shoulders also.. but that is a different discussion). While my A-C's are amazing, one thing I like about them is that they are not 'CNC perfect' (which is also very cool... my Sadowksy is so perfect it looks like it was made in a VERY good factory, which I guess is close to the truth... it is PERFECT).

The A-C's (at least mine and the other 5 or 6 I've played), feel like they were made by a guy with some old tools, and a BIG love for the 'vintage era' bass guitar. That's a pretty cool thing IMO! My Sadowsky NYC (I love it too) is so perfect in fit and finish that it almost hurts. That's cool too. But man, my A-C's feel 'alive and 50 years old'

Yes, my name is Ken Jung, and I'm a pathetic fanboy.