Club Alleva Coppolo (Part 10!)

[Chef]

I wouldn't be surprised it quality were off a bit on the namm basses.
He finished a bunch of those in a short period of time.

 

[svtb15]

Yeah.. i have seen glue seepage at neck joints /body join from at least a dozen Foderas that came through my buds shop..
But ya know.. each bass sounded so killer that if i had the cake. i would have bought it no matter..

But I ask you, have ever seen a real Stradivarius?
I have, and they are $$$$$$.. not all of them, there are a few cheap ones too.. but they have glue seepage too.. and minor flaws.. Even Micheal Angelos satute of David has flaws.. so i will let Fodera get away with a minor thing or two.. even Coppolo if it sounds as good as they do and are essentially each a custom instrument and one offs..

a lot of the issues wouldnt be issues if these werent at the price point theyre at. at least imo. my fodera came with glue seeping from the joints that was dried, a top mount jack instead of the side mount i ordered and aeros instead of duncans. not a big deal if i hadnt payed what i did.

 

[KJung]

Yeah.. i have seen glue seepage at neck joints /body join from at least a dozen Foderas that came through my buds shop..
But ya know.. each bass sounded so killer that is i had the cake. i would have bought it no matter..

Hey Kirk. You make a good point also. Basses I've owned, like Fodera's and Celinder's, that were literally made by guys with 50 year old pin routers and 'carving knives', are a bit 'funky' in a way (little quirks, etc.), but I always liked that. My Celinder's all had their 'issues', but gosh, they just killed (killed my back and shoulders also.. but that is a different discussion). While my A-C's are amazing, one thing I like about them is that they are not 'CNC perfect' (which is also very cool... my Sadowksy is so perfect it looks like it was made in a VERY good factory, which I guess is close to the truth... it is PERFECT).

The A-C's (at least mine and the other 5 or 6 I've played), feel like they were made by a guy with some old tools, and a BIG love for the 'vintage era' bass guitar. That's a pretty cool thing IMO! My Sadowsky NYC (I love it too) is so perfect in fit and finish that it almost hurts. That's cool too. But man, my A-C's feel 'alive and 50 years old'

Yes, my name is Ken Jung, and I'm a pathetic fanboy.

 

[svtb15]

Nothing wrong with a Light bass..
Micheal Rhodes rocks a 8.5 pound bass, so does Hugh McDonald., Lanice Morrison, Paul Turner Conrad Korsch and Don Was too.
Nothing wrong with a light bass.. I really dig em'.

 

[narud]

Hey Kirk. You make a good point also. Basses I've owned, like Fodera's and Celinder's, that were literally made by guys with 50 year old pin routers and 'carving knives', are a bit 'funky' in a way (little quirks, etc.), but I always liked that. My Celinder's all had their 'issues', but gosh, they just killed (killed my back and shoulders also.. but that is a different discussion). While my A-C's are amazing, one thing I like about them is that they are not 'CNC perfect' (which is also very cool... my Sadowksy is so perfect it looks like it was made in a VERY good factory, which I guess is close to the truth... it is PERFECT).

The A-C's (at least mine and the other 5 or 6 I've played), feel like they were made by a guy with some old tools, and a BIG love for the 'vintage era' bass guitar. That's a pretty cool thing IMO! My Sadowsky NYC (I love it too) is so perfect in fit and finish that it almost hurts. That's cool too. But man, my A-C's feel 'alive and 50 years old'

Yes, my name is Ken Jung, and I'm a pathetic fanboy.

i always really enjoy talking about this stuff with you because i know youre such a fan boy. we can both take a ribbing! you took your lumps in the nord thread a while back.lol

if anything, my take is clean up some of the slop to prevent guys like us 10 years from now going "what the f is up with these basses and the people making them?" like we do about fodera.

 

[narud]

Yeah.. i have seen glue seepage at neck joints /body join from at least a dozen Foderas that came through my buds shop..
But ya know.. each bass sounded so killer that if i had the cake. i would have bought it no matter..

But I ask you, have ever seen a real Stradivarius?
I have, and they are $$$$$$.. not all of them, there are a few cheap ones too.. but they have glue seepage too.. and minor flaws.. Even Micheal Angelos satute of David has flaws.. so i will let Fodera get away with a minor thing or two.. even Coppolo if it sounds as good as they do and are essentially each a custom instrument and one offs..

never had the pleasure of seeing a strad, but my thing with these basses is ive never really come across a builder where the sound is SO good that i can over look some stuff that shouldnt happen at a certain price. did my old fodera sound great....yup. but not 8k great (what it would cost new now).

the major issues ive seen on jimmys basses were the blocks and binding builds, and those are the specs that really drive up the price. if theyre going to drive up the price that much, make it perfect.imo

 

[Chef]

Mine isn't perfect.
It's beat to heck.

Aside from that, hard to find fault with it.

 

[KJung]

Mine isn't perfect.
It's beat to heck.

Aside from that, hard to find fault with it.

That, of course, if Kirk's fault, not Jimmy's!

 

[Chef]

Well, yeah...

 

[KJung]

Well, yeah...

Kirk became my hero (even though we snipe at each other over on the Genz threads) when he carved whatever that was into the back of one of his A-C's. That's rock and roll man.

Kirk... we need a picture again for the new thread.

 

[svtb15]

Yeah i hear ya.. Im not so sure it is the tools as it would be just circumstances..I got to hang with jimmy while he made my bass body the other day.. I have a short profile of it back on page 9 of this thread http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8583137&postcount=358

If you sneeze while cutting you can go too deep in a spot.. then what? throw away a days work? Cant do that.It took pretty long to do the body alone. I was suprized. and the different template set ups. I think there were maybe 6 template changes to get the job done. And its still not done. I made a video that i will post when i get a chance to edit my foul mouthed language out of it. I say the F word at least 30 times in 10 minutes.. it works as a noun, verb, pronoun, adjective etc. hey im from Brooklyn!

But his basses are not CNC yet and all one offs.. each is its own individual piece from what i have seen.. So far pretty good for him just trying to getthe NAMM stuff on time to be able to show the prototypes .
He even had to make his templates by hand and computer to make the basses. Its pretty involved.

I have 2 NYC Sadowskys and love them.. but dont forget . all of those basses are made from parts that vendors ship to him to assemble.. The assembly is perfect! Or as perfect as humanly possible followed up by the best CS in the business in my opinion.
The necks are made to his order by a vendor to his specs and tolerances as is the body...and he fits each piece with NASA precision... I think that once jimmy goes CNC he too will have the exact same spec on each bass...
All of my Allevas meet the same spec as sadowskys that i have and many others that i have seen. perhaps the prototypes were not quite there yet?? But they sure sounded good. I would do a record with one tomorrow if i had to.
Im just trying to fill in the blanks that some folks may be missing.. Just like Foderas.. they are all one offs.. no two alike..
I joke and say the ones that have a mistake are "one of a kind" .. you get to pay more for that.

Hey Kirk. You make a good point also. Basses I've owned, like Fodera's and Celinder's, that were literally made by guys with 50 year old pin routers and 'carving knives', are a bit 'funky' in a way (little quirks, etc.), but I always liked that. My Celinder's all had their 'issues', but gosh, they just killed (killed my back and shoulders also.. but that is a different discussion). While my A-C's are amazing, one thing I like about them is that they are not 'CNC perfect' (which is also very cool... my Sadowksy is so perfect it looks like it was made in a VERY good factory, which I guess is close to the truth... it is PERFECT).

The A-C's (at least mine and the other 5 or 6 I've played), feel like they were made by a guy with some old tools, and a BIG love for the 'vintage era' bass guitar. That's a pretty cool thing IMO! My Sadowsky NYC (I love it too) is so perfect in fit and finish that it almost hurts. That's cool too. But man, my A-C's feel 'alive and 50 years old'

Yes, my name is Ken Jung, and I'm a pathetic fanboy.

 

[svtb15]

Dood.. you rock!

Yeah i am a crazy Italian guy from NY..

Yes my dog Poudah "poo-dah" passed away after 17 years.. I had my bass in my lap in my studio the following day or so.. and i felt compelled to use my eating utensil to engrave her name in the bass.. That bass has become famous.. to be honest im not sorry i did it.. every one i gig with asks me to use that bass.. pic to come.. i need to take a new one since the relic is a bit more than the shot form 2 years ago..

Kirk became my hero (even though we snipe at each other over on the Genz threads) when he carved whatever that was into the back of one of his A-C's. That's rock and roll man.

Kirk... we need a picture again for the new thread.

 

[KJung]

Dood.. you rock!

Yeah i am a crazy Italian guy from NY..

Yes my dog Poudah "poo-dah" passed away after 17 years.. I had my bass in my lap in my studio the following day or so.. and i felt compelled to use my eating utensil to engrave her name in the bass.. That bass has become famous.. to be honest im not sorry i did it.. every one i gog with asks me to use that bass..

Poodah... that's right (forgot the story.. that makes it even more cool). Post up a pic.

 

[svtb15]

As per Ken's request. Thank you Ken.
Im memory of my dog Poudah.
Kinda feeling like i need to put departed Brits name in there too. my Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. But it has to come from inspiration and not just a carve up job ..
I tell ya it was very theraputic...
My friend Hugh had an early 60s SB P bass that he carved his name in many years ago.. That has to be floating around somewhere.
Here mine

 

[KJung]

As per Kens request. Thank you Ken.
Im memory of my dog Poudah.

Way cool!

 

[sps500]

Call me crazy but I like a little imperfection in each instrument. It creates individuality and uniqueness... I feel the CNC process will just be clones... just as a thought whats the difference between a guy in China with a CNC making basses and a guy in the US with a CNC?

I feel Jimmy and all the rest of the luthiers out there making their instruments with their hands is what makes their instruments special.

 

[svtb15]

Now , i am thinking of recreating this one.. My old LG5 in LPB.. I may go SunBurst.. still open to suggestions
Jimmy made two identical necks.. So i may get the sister neck to mine..
here is my old LG

 

[narud]

Call me crazy but I like a little imperfection in each instrument. It creates individuality and uniqueness... I feel the CNC process will just be clones... just as a thought whats the difference between a guy in China with a CNC making basses and a guy in the US with a CNC?

I feel Jimmy and all the rest of the luthiers out there making their instruments with their hands is what makes their instruments special.

we end up embracing the **** people complained about fenders in the first place. inconsistency. and now we get to pay a premium for it

have you seen what comes off a cnc? theres still quite a bit of work that has to be done.

 

[Saluki]

my fodera came with glue seeping from the joints that was dried, a top mount jack instead of the side mount i ordered and aeros instead of duncans. not a big deal if i hadnt payed what i did.

I woulda sent that mofo back. Top jacks do not do it for me and if I spec'd side jack and would have been upset to see otherwise. Just sayin. And I agree with you on quality issue at this price point. It needs to be there at this point, but each person is different on expectations so as long as the CS is such that the builder takes care of anything that is a concern to his customers then that is what is important.

 

[Jim C]

Hey Kirk. You make a good point also. Basses I've owned, like Fodera's and Celinder's, that were literally made by guys with 50 year old pin routers and 'carving knives', are a bit 'funky' in a way (little quirks, etc.), but I always liked that. My Celinder's all had their 'issues', but gosh, they just killed (killed my back and shoulders also.. but that is a different discussion). While my A-C's are amazing, one thing I like about them is that they are not 'CNC perfect' (which is also very cool... my Sadowksy is so perfect it looks like it was made in a VERY good factory, which I guess is close to the truth... it is PERFECT).

The A-C's (at least mine and the other 5 or 6 I've played), feel like they were made by a guy with some old tools, and a BIG love for the 'vintage era' bass guitar. That's a pretty cool thing IMO! My Sadowsky NYC (I love it too) is so perfect in fit and finish that it almost hurts. That's cool too. But man, my A-C's feel 'alive and 50 years old'

Yes, my name is Ken Jung, and I'm a pathetic fanboy.

Interesting view point regarding hand made vs CNC, or, can an instrument have soul if it isn't hand made.

After approx 15 years as a recording engineer at big studios and semi pro bass player, I "got a real job" (for the last 20 years) that is sales and manufacturing based. I find it unacceptable to pay $5K for a simple item like a bass guitar that is not pretty damned close to perfect; remember, we put a man on the moon 40 years ago, this is just bits of wood, metal, and plastic. Those stupid SX basses could easily be on any top 10 hit although gareed that they are far from perfect or dripping with sould. In regards to CNC being perfect; it is, but you could program random tolerance variations into it if you wanted to. I do think that it is archaic to manufacture with pin routers although it would be difficult to justify the cost of a CNC based on a low number of intruments produced; saw that JC is going CNC and hopefully the savings in labor will help lower instrument costs depending on how many years he depreciates the machinery.

BTW; never played an A/C bass but want one based on what the guy believes in, stands for, his research, and the passion he puts forth in his craft; nothing wrong with using the best tools to pursue it IMO.