Club Alleva Coppolo (Part 10!)

[Vic]

What I didn't say very clearly was:
* What beautiful, precise, machine work
* On a high end bass, you shouldn't be able to move the neck as it would mean a sloppy neck pocket
* Was also implying that pup pole spacing was maybe a bit off - meaning spacing was off from manufacturer; just realize JC makes his own pups; oops

Ahhh, ok, yeah, I hear ya.

 

[Vic]

So you found luthiers willing to slag Jimmy's work, huh? Big surprise - sounds like just about every high end audio show I've ever been to. the manufacturers visit each others rooms, look the gear over and barely wait until they're out of the room before the s*** talking starts.

To be fair, while narud's comments can seem abrasively worded at times, I don't think those comments came from luthiers/builders that were that shallow and strongly agenda driven... in fact, I can almost assure you they weren't, because I might even know who said what. In fact, quite to the contrary, I've found most high end builders/luthiers to have more of a camaraderie than a bitter venomous competition like you illustrate here. I sat at a bar with George Furlanetto, Pete Skjold, and Carey Nordstrand, and a great time was had by all, and nobody was putting on faces... it was real.

Simple fact is, and yes, I was there, so I can say this first hand, some of the basses Jimmy had on display did have imperfections that would cause some folks to object at that price range. That is a fact. Period. Now, I also know first hand that's not truly representative of Jimmy's capabilities, so I'm guessing some corners were cut to get as many basses on display for NAMM. For better or worse, that is what it is.

Funny thing is, the one LG5 he had there (the fiesta colored one) did not even have its designated neck on it, and the headstock was a slightly different color (and yeah, that was also one of the ones that had a pocket issue). He only did that because he wanted an LG for the show. However, it sold anyway, and the new owner couldn't be happier. Jimmy fully disclosed everything to him and the guy said he wanted it left alone cause he feared any change would put the "magic" at risk. Well, I don't know if that would really risk anything, but I did play that bass and it played/sounded truly great. Believe that!

FWIW anyway.

 

[narud]

wow .. sounds like you have a bone to pick.. did jimmy steal your ice-cream cone?
you weren't there to see the stuff... so as far as im concerned its all hear say . and quite frankly i think you are exaggerating to a massive degree of what the truth is. In My Humble opinion of course.




Anyway about 10,000 posts so far so i guess ya need a little bump in the road now and then.

well, one of the guys that got at me about the qc stuff doesnt even build basses...... resonator guitars so not exactly the competition. and no exaggeration. like i said, i never posted about the qc issues i saw on the basses the last time i was in the shop, but when im seeing the raves over basses that im hearing from people i trust have issues, i found it a little humorous and posted what was at least was visible in the pics.

if this was a fender thread and pics were posted with alignment like that, people would be having a field day with the typical poor quality control comments. and thats for basses in the 1k range

 

[KJung]

Why is it that we're quick to point out "quality control issues" with fenders but label cosmetic flaws on AC's or other high end basses "vintage mojo"?

That's an easy one... it's all about playability and tone. If a bass has a little glue line showing, or a slight wobble in the finish, that's like a scratch on a new car that still kicks a**. (I'm not saying that is acceptable at a high price point, but using that as an example).

If a bass has issues that impact playability and tone (poor fretwork, significant deadspots, necks that move around, pickups that are noisy, preamps that are noisy, etc., etc.), that would cause at least some to 'pay up' for a more custom made instrument versus the 'factory made' models with 'bulk purchased' materials, etc.

I again spent about 1 minute setting up all three of my A-C's out of the box (all I had to do was lower the G and B strings to more closely follow the neck radius curve, since that's the way I prefer my instruments set up). I really haven't had to touch them in the years since (same thing on Sadowsky, Nordstrand, and other high end J's I've owned or own).

To me, that's what you are paying for. And to Narud's point, I would also expect (and have received) fit and finish that you would expect from a high end, hand made instrument. That's what luckily I have experienced

 

[mothra2]

... and quite frankly, I have a hard time playing anything else at this point. ...

Sounds like Ken's F Bass is for sale

 

[KJung]

Sounds like Ken's F Bass is for sale

These A-C's have just ruined me regarding other basses, even very fine ones like the Nordstrands or F's. Just personal choice. Cool when an instrument speaks to you completely (much less an entire line of instruments... LG, LM, etc.), but of course, that's a totally personal thing, as I'm sure many love their F's and Nordy's and Sadowsky's as much as I love my A-C's. The 'orange bomber' Sadowsky stays though... killer in a different way

 

[esoxhntr]

To be fair, while narud's comments can seem abrasively worded at times,

Seem?

I don't think those comments came from luthiers/builders that were that shallow and strongly agenda driven... in fact, I can almost assure you they weren't, because I might even know who said what. In fact, quite to the contrary, I've found most high end builders/luthiers to have more of a camaraderie than a bitter venomous competition like you illustrate here. I sat at a bar with George Furlanetto, Pete Skjold, and Carey Nordstrand, and a great time was had by all, and nobody was putting on faces... it was real.

Vic, certainly not saying they all do it, and those guys you mention above all have solid reputation for both their work and as being great guys. My guess is that if they were commenting on the deficiencies, then they likely had lots of positive things to say as well.But music is like any other area of human endeavour - probably more volatile than most because of the passion it ignites in people - so I have to believe that there are a number of people jealous of the hype that Jimmy is getting, and other a little pissed because he sells direct so his product is competition (this may not apply in the NAMM setting so much?).

Simple fact is, and yes, I was there, so I can say this first hand, some of the basses Jimmy had on display did have imperfections that would cause some folks to object at that price range. That is a fact. Period. Now, I also know first hand that's not truly representative of Jimmy's capabilities, so I'm guessing some corners were cut to get as many basses on display for NAMM. For better or worse, that is what it is.

Makes sense to me.

Funny thing is, the one LG5 he had there (the fiesta colored one) did not even have its designated neck on it, and the headstock was a slightly different color (and yeah, that was also one of the ones that had a pocket issue). He only did that because he wanted an LG for the show. However, it sold anyway, and the new owner couldn't be happier. Jimmy fully disclosed everything to him and the guy said he wanted it left alone cause he feared any change would put the "magic" at risk. Well, I don't know if that would really risk anything, but I did play that bass and it played/sounded truly great. Believe that!

FWIW anyway.

I do believe it. It's a good point, and what I was trying to say earlier - give me the sound and playability that Alleva Coppolo basses exhibit on an incredibly consistent basis; I'll eventually grow to love the paint imperfection for it's character.

 

[Bernie Connors]

For me, the bottom line when it comes to this stuff is, if it plays good and sounds good, it is good. Whether it's a MIM Fender or a 6k Alleva Coppolo. What someone spends on an instrument is completely personal and up to them. If they can afford it, and dig it, then there's nothing I can say about that. Whether I agree with it or not. That includes any perceivable flaws that bass may have.

So much incredible music has been made on such a wide range of basses that, in the end - it's not about the bass at all - it's about the player and the music they have inside them. This is TalkBass so of course we all obsess over this stuff and there's nothing wrong with that. But let's remember that basses aren't the ultimate goal. They're a means to an end and we should play whichever bass speaks to us and enables us to create music on a higher level. A bass that inspires us when we pick it up, no matter what the cost or what flaws it may have.

That being said, I love Alleva Coppolo basses.

 

[Chef]

I wouldn't be at all happy spending ~$4k on a bass with orange peel or really any other noticable flaws. There are plenty of basses you can buy for much less than that, which don't have q/c issues.

Having said that, I understand the rush to get a large number of basses ready for namm, and if jimmy chose to put some stuff out there that wasn't up to his normal q/c; that's his choice.

The Three AC's I've played, and the two that I've owned have been spot on....minus all the dings Kirk was kind enough to put into mine before I got it from him Now I don't worry about that first one...or second one.

 

[Bernie Connors]

I'm with Kirk on this one. I don't mind dings. All part of the experience. They'll happen, nothing we can do about them. They add character to an instrument. Shows everyone that it's used and earns its keep.

 

[jonno1707]

I'm with Kirk on this one. I don't mind dings. All part of the experience. They'll happen, nothing we can do about them. They add character to an instrument. Shows everyone that it's used and earns its keep.

I agree 100%...

 

[Vic]

Vic, certainly not saying they all do it, and those guys you mention above all have solid reputation for both their work and as being great guys. My guess is that if they were commenting on the deficiencies, then they likely had lots of positive things to say as well.But music is like any other area of human endeavour - probably more volatile than most because of the passion it ignites in people - so I have to believe that there are a number of people jealous of the hype that Jimmy is getting, and other a little pissed because he sells direct so his product is competition (this may not apply in the NAMM setting so much?).

It's just that your post seemed to read as if to say if they were saying those things, it had to be purely agenda-driven, which I disagree with. If I misread you, "never mind".

 

[jij04002]

Just figured that I would chime in and say that I love the one and only of Jimmy's basses that I have played so far. No real insight here, just that I am quickly becoming a fanboy...which has not been the case for any other builder/manufacturer.

Keep it real!

 

[svtb15]

oh.

well, one of the guys that got at me about the qc stuff doesnt even build basses...... resonator guitars so not exactly the competition. and no exaggeration. like i said, i never posted about the qc issues i saw on the basses the last time i was in the shop, but when im seeing the raves over basses that im hearing from people i trust have issues, i found it a little humorous and posted what was at least was visible in the pics.

if this was a fender thread and pics were posted with alignment like that, people would be having a field day with the typical poor quality control comments. and thats for basses in the 1k range

 

[esoxhntr]

No sweat Vic, the way I worded it was sort of a blanket indictment - didn't mean it to come off that way. By the way, what's an "orange peel"?

 

[svtb15]

I will say that Alleva Coppolos Are Not For Everyone... People have their preferences over tone, feel, neck thru or bolt on and a million other variables.
What works for some folks and not for others, and that is what i nice about so many different options and builder in this day and age. Not like 40 years ago where you have maybe 3 or 4 to choose from. I can gig with anything from an SX to Fodera and be OK with the end result.

I will say that i did not see any orange peel on any of the basses at the show. If i did i would have pointed it out to jimmy.. if there was an uneven finish (thats something different) that could be from sanding of the wood and the nitro applied over an uneven sanding.. but no more than when a gloss finish settles over a piece of quilted maple over time...

I tell ya, i like the fact that jimmy does not order his parts from a bass parts maker and then assembles them in CA..
I like that he does his own thing... only a few guys are doing that.. the ones that do, Narud seems to find inconsistencies time and again in research that i have done..
Thats OK. go to my first sentence at the top of this post... i think that Naruad would find that his thing is just not an Alleva or Fodera or ______ fill in blank.. and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[Andrew Jones]

Bottom line is regardless of our individual feelings/opinions about prorities,Jimmy needs to be careful. That this thread has the tone tone of late needs to be respected.


He's a business going through expansion after a boom of success.This is a balancing act time period for any business.IMHO Jimmy's striving to be aggressive right now.When you go down the list of resent changes/expansion its really quite a bit. Weather or not that's the wisest of moves will be told in hind sight in the future.


But really all that I can think about is

10.75 Lbs????



Aj

 

[svtb15]

Well said... I have brought that up to him too..
so +1

Bottom line is regardless of our individual feelings/opinions about prorities,Jimmy needs to be careful. That this thread has the tone tone of late needs to be respected.


He's a business going through expansion after a boom of success.This is a balancing act time period for any business.IMHO Jimmy's striving to be aggressive right now.When you go down the list of resent changes/expansion its really quite a bit. Weather or not that's the wisest of moves will be told in hind sight in the future.


Aj

 

[dj5]

Jimmy doesn't sell direct in the UK.
It's $4800 for a KBP5 and
$6040 for an LG custom (both prices AFTER reductions!)
I was really thinking of getting one until I found out the crazy price I would have to pay. but if I had, i would have been pretty pissed off to finy ANY imperfections!

 

[Chef]

Orange peel is pretty much what the name implies it is: when the applied finish ends up bumpy like an orange peel.
This can be caused by multiple factors like not enough thinner, incorrect spray gun setup, dirty spray gun tip, improper spray angle.
Sometimes it can be fixed if there's enough finish in the low spots to remove the high spots...sometimes not.

No sweat Vic, the way I worded it was sort of a blanket indictment - didn't mean it to come off that way. By the way, what's an "orange peel"?