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Club Alleva Coppolo (Part V)

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#561
Guys,

My AC has had a set up and has been doing some acclimatising to the Brisbane humidity. It has had some reaction to the climate change and needed some neck adjustments but all is close to good now. It's still creating some very very slight fret buzz in the first 4-5 frets of the A,D and G strings. I see this as some final settling in and don't really want to take it back to my set up guy. I'm ashamed to say I'm a bit nervous tweaking this bass myself - it's a thing of beauty:)

Some advice please - Do I raise the strings a fraction or do I tweak the truss rod? We are talking fret resonance more that rattle. It's just the lightest of buzz when I dig in.

Any tips would be appreciated. Thanks!
 
#562
Tendollarcat said:
Guys,

My AC has had a set up and has been doing some acclimatising to the Brisbane humidity. It has had some reaction to the climate change and needed some neck adjustments but all is close to good now. It's still creating some very very slight fret buzz in the first 4-5 frets of the A,D and G strings. I see this as some final settling in and don't really want to take it back to my set up guy. I'm ashamed to say I'm a bit nervous tweaking this bass myself - it's a thing of beauty:)

Some advice please - Do I raise the strings a fraction or do I tweak the truss rod? We are talking fret resonance more that rattle. It's just the lightest of buzz when I dig in.

Any tips would be appreciated. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Truss rod....give it a TINY counterclockwise twist with a flat head screwdriver....MAYBE 1/8th (or even less of a turn at a time) and let it settle a bit. If necessary give it another even SMALLER twist CCW and let it rest a bit until you are there. It probably won't take much! Good luck!

Peace,

T
 
#563
tommixx said:
Truss rod....give it a TINY counterclockwise twist with a flat head screwdriver....MAYBE 1/8th (or even less of a turn at a time) and let it settle a bit. If necessary give it another even SMALLER twist CCW and let it rest a bit until you are there. It probably won't take much! Good luck!

Peace,

T
Click to expand...

+1 all the way. Don't be nervous. Just loosen the rod a VERY small amount as Tom suggests. These necks are so stable that at most you need just a tiny, tiny tweak one or twice a year at most.

You can't hurt anything, so again, don't be nervous. You will be surprised at the impact of just a tiny movement of that rod with a screwdriver.

All will be well:):hyper::bassist:
 
#564
KJung said:
+1 all the way. Don't be nervous. Just loosen the rod a VERY small amount as Tom suggests. These necks are so stable that at most you need just a tiny, tiny tweak one or twice a year at most.
Click to expand...
+1

Tendollarcat, do it. It's no big deal. It's your bass, you should learn how to (re)tweak it to your liking. It's simple stuff, and I'm sure you can handle it. Seriously. :)

However, what nobody has said yet is also WAIT before doing additional adjustments as/if needed. I suggest at least an hour.

In general, the way to set up a bass is...

1.) Trussrod (relief)
2.) Saddle height (action)
3.) Saddle position (intonation)
4.) Play the crap out of it :)
 
#565
Thanks guys. I had some understanding of the basics and have never been adverse to lowering string saddles but I was a bit worried about the truss road. I have made a slight tweak and am just seeing how it settles.

By setting relief via the truss rod, I'm assuming the relief flattens then neck slightly? Do you guys then generally adjust the string height again?

It's amazing how much more quickly I would have taken the "theres only one way to find out" approach on a cheaper bass :D
 
#566
Tendollarcat said:
By setting relief via the truss rod, I'm assuming the relief flattens then neck slightly? Do you guys then generally adjust the string height again?
Click to expand...
You always start at the top of the list... first relief, then action, then intonation (tho once you get the relief and action close, intonation probably doesn't need to be redone after that).

Relief: It goes BOTH ways...
  • Tighten (clockwise) flatten/stiffen against the string tension (tho you should loosen the strings, adjust, retune, recheck).
  • Loosen (counterclockwise) to bow with the string tension (you can do this one without loosening/retuning the strings).
 
#568
I probably should have been more specific instead of saying "a bit". Let your adjustments settle in for a few minutes after you make them. I find that I make an adjustment, retune, and PLAY the instrument for a few minutes. It usually tells me what it needs from there. Most of the time it takes only a minor tweak and no more than 1 or 2 slight adjustments. IF the saddles are REALLY high or REALLY low I set them at a middle ground depending on the most neutral point. I like the neck to be fairly straight with the saddles at a medium height so that I have enough flexibility to adjust the saddles IF it ever becomes necessary. I have found that with MOST factory setups the saddles are set where they should be. If the bass has been "adjusted" by someone who may not know how to do a proper setup the saddles are usually what they adjust and they are a real train wreck. If it came to you from Jimmy you should only need a minor tweak of the neck with the truss rod. Interestingly enough, you may find that you have to go right back to where it was depending on the time of year, the wetness or dryness of the area you store it in, the moisture content of the air you play in, elevation, temperature, or even a change in strings. There are many things that affect a setup and you will find that an instrument may or may not be susceptible to ANY one or none of the things listed. I used to do a lot of recording and I would always check and recheck my intonation before EVERY session I did. Sometimes I would raise the strings by adding some relief or drop one side of the PUPS or raise or lower the PUPS depending on what I was going for on a particular track. String choice, playing position, and setup are the 3 main things that affect the overall tone of the instrument once you have it. I believe that as instruments age and small changes settle down it reaches a sweet spot that is pretty dependable most al the time. It seems that the older they get the less fussy they are and the more consistent they become. Don't sweat it! Unless you REALLY crank it and over tighten you can't really hurt a thing. Keep in mind though that if you hear cracking and popping that sounds bad, it probably is bad! Cease and desist immediately. You should never force a truss rod under ANY circumstances. If it is tight that is OK you may try loosening before tightening just a bit. Try it you may find that with a bit of practice you prefer your setups over the local setup guy! I know I do! I send my hard jobs to Rob at Sadowsky and he does a killer setup! I actually usually raise the strings a touch after he sets them up for me! Good luck and let us know how much you had to adjust.

Peace,

T
 
#569
Andrew Jones said:
Basic rule of thumb

Lower frets=relief(truss rod)

Upper frets =Saddles.
Click to expand...
Yup, assuming there's not a fret level issue somewhere (which we'll assume here :)).

The reason for this is the truss rod only affects the "free" part of the neck, which is between the nut and the end of the neck pocket on the body (which is usually around the 15th fret on a 21 fret J style bass), which means the maximum effect of the truss rod will be around the center of this space, or the 7-8th fret.

My rule of thumb on relief is I fret a string (at pitch/tension) at the first and 15th fret and bounce the string at the 7th or 8th fret (usually with my thumb). I try to set mine up so there's about a medium pick height or so there... just enough to bounce the string up and down a little.
 
#570
One other thing that makes a bass 'feel' and play well for me personally is to have even string height across the fretboard. Many set-up's from various shops (Sadowsky and Alleva in my experience) don't seem to follow the curve of the fretboard. This results in me typically lowering the G and D string quite a bit from the shop, and lowering the B string a touch at the saddles so that the string height at the 21st fret is pretty much indentical across the strings (with of course the E and B being just a touch higher due to the wider vibrations of those strings needing a touch more room).

It's amazing how much quicker the action feels (especially on that 10" radius highly curved Alleva fretboard).

So, just a thought there. It really makes a difference to me and makes the bass feel much more even up and down and especially across the neck.
 
#572
Bernie Connors said:
Do we have any Alleva guys that use low/real low action? I prefer a lower action as I play with a light touch. Which do you guys prefer?
Click to expand...


Hey Bernie,

I have a light touch also, but through the years, I've moved the strings a touch up off the neck compared to the uber low action I used to prefer. So, for the Alleva and Sadowsky basses, except for a slightly lowering of the 'outer strings' to match the neck radius, I pretty much play with their 'shop set-up' height.

Playing with just a touch higher action really simplifies things for me. I now no longer feel any impact of those very slight neck movements that can result in those maddening little buzzes that appear and disappear on some basses with extremely low action.

I used to have to tweak and tweak. Now, it's maybe an 1/8 of a turn on the truss rod every year or so, and I just play:D:bassist:
 
#573
KJung said:
Hey Bernie,

I have a light tought also, but through the years, I've moved the strings a touch up off the neck compared to the uber low action I used to prefer. So, for the Alleva and Sadowsky basses, except for a slightly lowering of the 'outer strings' to match the neck radius, I pretty much play with their 'shop set-up' height.

Playing with just a touch higher action really simplifies things for me. I now no longer feel any impact of those very slight neck movements that can result in those maddening little buzzes that appear and disappear on some basses with extremely low action.

I used to have to tweak and tweak. Now, it's maybe an 1/8 of a turn on the truss rod every year or so, and I just play:D:bassist:
Click to expand...
Very good point! There's not a lot of wiggle room in regards to neck movement when the strings are so low.

I know a guy that uses extremely low action on his bass. The lowest I have ever seen. I played his bass some and a feather touch is all that's required. He also has a graphite neck which makes it a little easier to maintain that kind of a setup. Especially in the Midwest!
 
#574
Bernie Connors said:
Do we have any Alleva guys that use low/real low action? I prefer a lower action as I play with a light touch. Which do you guys prefer?
Click to expand...

For me one of the real beauties of a J bass among other things is that you can really dig in at times and really low action makes that almost impossible.

As a guy who's playing everything on a gig I need versatilility so the action needs to be low enough to play slap lines and high enough to get a really round wolly tone. Again IMO a slightly higher string height allows a wider dynamic range especially on a gig where I need to be screaming on a funk tune and then drop down for an Etta balad.

I think if my gigs were generally focused on one genre I'd be more likely to have really low action or really high.
 
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