Confessions of a Flatwound convert...

[Sundogue]

My bad. I was a bit distracted writing that post. I meant DR Nickels. I do think the Nickels are nice, I'm not really picky on the type of rounds I use. Its more of a global flat v.s. round issue for me.

Obviously. DR makes a few nickel rounds...LoRiders, Sunbeams, etc.

Yeah, flats aren't for everybody...wait, yes they are. Flats are for everyone, but everyone isn't cut out for flats. It takes a unique, special individual to play flats. Anyone can play on rounds.

It's a Global issue for me too, as I plan on taking over the 'round' world with flats.

 

[Jeff Roller]

I've been reading this thread avidly, I just custom ordered a set of TI flats from Gary at Guitar X. They will be installed on my Dingwall AB1, and Gary was very careful to call me for exact measurements between the nut and bridge, even noting the distance between nut and tuning pegs to ensure I get a workable set for a fanned fret system. Once they are installed and I have time to evaluate, I will report back on this thread. Anyone with a Dingwall will be curious as to how this "special order" turned out. If it turns out to be a perfectly concise fit, I will direct all sales to Gary, he will have the master lengths, gage, etc to optimize your fanned fret AB1, AB2, Z and Prima series.
Cheers,
Jeff

 

[Basstovsky]

Recommendations for flats with sustain? (Don't even suggest TI's If i wanted to pay that much for strings, I'd save the money to buy a preamp instead)

I like my GHS's for vintage kinda sound, but recently I've found theres absolutely no sustain to them (and theyre on a T-40!!!). The Rotosounds were even worse so I think I'm done with those.

 

[Sufenta]

Obviously. DR makes a few nickel rounds...LoRiders, Sunbeams, etc.

Yeah, flats aren't for everybody...wait, yes they are. Flats are for everyone, but everyone isn't cut out for flats. It takes a unique, special individual to play flats. Anyone can play on rounds.

It's a Global issue for me too, as I plan on taking over the 'round' world with flats.

The whole Global War On Rounds is so yesterday. Its time to refer to your cause as The Continuing Flats Contingency Operation.

 

[mav]

This thread has had the opposite effect on me I've just put a set of SS rounds on my bass after using TI Flats for the last 4 YEARS.

 

[edbutler3]

I put a set of Chromes on my Lull P-5 tonight, replacing the TI JFs that I was using. The TIs were my first serious experiment with flats, but reading Sundogue's posts made me think I'd perfer the Chromes. So far I have only played through headphones with my PJB Bass Buddy, but I'm liking the Chromes so far.

This is the .045 .065 .080 .100 .132 Long Scale set, which was my only 5-string option at GC. I kind of wish the tension was a bit higher, but it's certainly higher than the TIs. (Maybe I need to try the Labellas eventually.) I can't recall if it has been mentioned in this thread, but these strings take a little extra work to put on a 35" scale bass. (There is a Super Long Scale set I see on juststrings.com, so maybe that's what I needed.) I had to trim about 8mm of silk wrapping off of each string to get it past the nut. It worked, but was a bit of a pain. And it leaves some messy frazzled silk up there which might bother the OCD crowd. I think I'll get over it.

It's amazing how bright these are when brand new. I'll probably like them better when they've faded a bit, but it's also kind of cool. You could even slap on these I think...

I'll have more to say once I've heard them with the full band (on Monday) but I will have to go to the rehearsal space on my own tomorrow and see how they sound through my full rig: Demeter VTBP-201, Aggie DB 728, Berg NV215. They definitely have a different tonal balance from the TIs. The most positive difference for me is that they don't have as much of that nasal ~800Hz "honk" as I was getting with the TIs. I also seem to hear the added girth on the D and G strings that Sundogue mentioned, but I'll have to hear them with the full band to be sure about that.

 

[::::BASSIST::::]

I find chromes too bright... even after some good use.

Labellas... now that's a great sounding flatwound.

I love the labella FLs and FMs.

Shake & Bake Baby!

 

[Sundogue]

I put a set of Chromes on my Lull P-5 tonight, replacing the TI JFs that I was using. The TIs were my first serious experiment with flats, but reading Sundogue's posts made me think I'd perfer the Chromes. So far I have only played through headphones with my PJB Bass Buddy, but I'm liking the Chromes so far.

This is the .045 .065 .080 .100 .132 Long Scale set, which was my only 5-string option at GC. I kind of wish the tension was a bit higher, but it's certainly higher than the TIs. (Maybe I need to try the Labellas eventually.) I can't recall if it has been mentioned in this thread, but these strings take a little extra work to put on a 35" scale bass. (There is a Super Long Scale set I see on juststrings.com, so maybe that's what I needed.) I had to trim about 8mm of silk wrapping off of each string to get it past the nut. It worked, but was a bit of a pain. And it leaves some messy frazzled silk up there which might bother the OCD crowd. I think I'll get over it.

It's amazing how bright these are when brand new. I'll probably like them better when they've faded a bit, but it's also kind of cool. You could even slap on these I think...

I'll have more to say once I've heard them with the full band (on Monday) but I will have to go to the rehearsal space on my own tomorrow and see how they sound through my full rig: Demeter VTBP-201, Aggie DB 728, Berg NV215. They definitely have a different tonal balance from the TIs. The most positive difference for me is that they don't have as much of that nasal ~800Hz "honk" as I was getting with the TIs. I also seem to hear the added girth on the D and G strings that Sundogue mentioned, but I'll have to hear them with the full band to be sure about that.

I do think anyone switching from rounds to flats should put on a brand new set of Chromes. They are so-o-o bright right out of the package that they'll still have a brightness to them that will ease the transition to flats. Since they settle in so gradually, I think a former roundwound user would become acclimated easier.

They take about 2-4 weeks to settle down some and then the tone will be more even and less "harshly" bright. But they will still have a brightness to them that other flats don't have. The TI's are brighter on the high end, whereas the Chromes have a very strong lo-mid punch.

And yeah, you needed the Super Longs.

To me flats aren't great to me when playing alone, but in a band context they really shine. They give you that pure deep bass sound, but that lo-mid punch naturally cuts through but still sits in the rhythm section mix well. If you find you are still lost in the mix a bit, instead of boosting highs and hi-mids, try just cutting the lows more. I've found I can cut the lows on my EQ quite a lot and the Chromes still sound deep, without getting that soft low end boomy mush in the lows. Very tight sounding with a band.

 

[Sundogue]

The whole Global War On Rounds is so yesterday. Its time to refer to your cause as The Continuing Flats Contingency Operation.

The Earth is Flats?

Operation Flatwound Storm?

Operation - Flattening the World?

 

[dorfmeister]

I'm having my Warwick Corvette Standard set-up with Pyramid golds this weekend.

 

[Sundogue]

I'm not sure if we can make much of a difference, but if string manufacturers see a rise in sales of flats, perhaps they will put more R&D into their design.

Really, when you think of Chromes' sound you really don't think old school, thumpy flatwounds, so they have put some effort into flat designs already.

But if they see the market for flats being more worthwhile, perhaps they can take the design even further and come up with some kind of flat that has all the round brightness that still retains all of the characteristics of flats.

As it stands, some feel they can get a "flat" sound with rounds, but that really stems from the belief that flats are just a duller version of rounds, which is not true.

While I am a flatwound convert, I still like the brighter flats, and that is what I find so appealing about the Chromes. They are not as bright as they were when new, but they still have more "punch" than thump...and as far better for me than any roundwound.

 

[lowtide]

This thread has had the opposite effect on me I've just put a set of SS rounds on my bass after using TI Flats for the last 4 YEARS.

I go through the same routine. Every couple years, when I get bored or just need a change, yup, that's just what I do. I've gone back and forth between flats and rounds for years, even on my fretlesses.

And I also agree that the TIs are too much money. I get two sets of Rotos for about the same as one TI.

 

[One Drop]

The Sadowsky flats have a lot of sustain. They sound Like Labellas with less thump, and are a bit more aggressive and a lot more growly than Labellas or Chromes, but have the same low mid punch and timbre. They do not have the pronounced high mids I find the Chromes maintain even after wearing in.

Chromes are great flats, but I have not found a bass that I didn't like more when wearing the Sadowskys. Strictly a personal preference, like preferring one singer's voice to another. Both are as effective in a rock setting, etc.

I wish I could use flats all the time, but the harsh, gnarly, metallic top and super growly low mids tone I get from Rotosound SS Swingbass rounds is way too cool and important for nailing the tones of the original songs we cover in my band to not use them. Even though the guitars mask a lot of the harmonics and highs, they still contribute importantly to the overall group sound, especially as my guitarists are both sensible and shelve their frequencies beautifully in the band mix.

With Rotos I can roll off the tone a bit on my bass to get a huge solid supporting (but not the same as flats) tone that works just as well as flats through my SVT, or direct with my Eden and VT Character pedal. At no time would or do I ever sound anything remotely like a guitar, as these rounds are anything but bottom shy. How one plays and EQs is as important as string choice, IMO.

In my now unfortunately dormant reggae band I would not ever consider anything but flatwounds fit for purpose, though. There is something about the natural warmth and roundness of a traditional flat, and especially the attack, that I cannot get from rounds, no matter how broken in. And I hate rolling off too much treble or high mids to compensate, as the overall tone and note definition suffers too much for a tone I find pleasing at the ridiculously loud levels I play reggae bass at.

 

[p-bass]

One Drop,very well said. A point I tried to make a while back on this thread is,flats work great in some settings,but not in all. I do alot of work and find rounds work best for ME in most situations,even if a flatwound type sound is called for. I am doing a a couple of dates this weekend and the first part of the show is a dinner set. I will be playing a Fender Jazz Bass with roundwounds for both the dinner set, and the "Disco/Rock" set. The Jazz with rounds can cover alot of ground,and one thing many band leaders find annoying is a bass player who says "I have to use a different bass for this song". Your bass had better be able to cover alot of sonic ground,unless as you say it's a Reggae gig,and that is the sound the music calls for,but I find my Jazz with rounds works great for Reggae too. Steve

 

[Sundogue]

One Drop,very well said. A point I tried to make a while back on this thread is,flats work great in some settings,but not in all. I do alot of work and find rounds work best for ME in most situations,even if a flatwound type sound is called for. I am doing a a couple of dates this weekend and the first part of the show is a dinner set. I will be playing a Fender Jazz Bass with roundwounds for both the dinner set, and the "Disco/Rock" set. The Jazz with rounds can cover alot of ground,and one thing many band leaders find annoying is a bass player who says "I have to use a different bass for this song". Your bass had better be able to cover alot of sonic ground,unless as you say it's a Reggae gig,and that is the sound the music calls for,but I find my Jazz with rounds works great for Reggae too. Steve

I definitely agree that anyone who is a "hired gun" so to speak, should be able to cop a variety of sounds and rounds will surely give you more ability to do that.

I posted this thread specifically because I switched to flats to accommodate the sound of the band I am in, and have always maintained throughout, that putting the music and the band first, was THE priority. And in my main band, flats are where it's at for us. So I'm in agreement with you.

I do agree that if you are an 'on-call" bass player for studio or live work, versatility is paramount to staying employed. And I agree rounds will allow you to be more accommodating to more employers.

I'm not a hired gun and have no 'employer' (save for the people who hire the band(s) as a group). I play in three different bands and only those three bands, so there is never a need to please my "boss" so to speak, as all three of the bands I'm in have been around a long time and know me and what I bring to the group as a bass player. I'm never in a position of having to audition for anyone and my place with all three groups is quite secure.

Were I ever in your situation again (as I was many years ago) I would have more basses and more variety of tones for any situation, and if I could only use one bass, it would be strung with rounds. Thankfully, I'm not in that situation and I am loving our sound using flats.

It's all cool.

 

[p-bass]

Study Country gig,Sunday afternoons...nothin' but flats for that !

 

[dave_bass5]

Ive been avoiding coming in here as although ive been playing Chromes every week since i got my P5 last Nov i had always planned on going back to nicks.
I miss the overtones you get with rounds. I've had TI's twice and this is my third set of Chromes in the past 5 years. Something kept pulling me back to rounds.
Anyway, last week i got around to putting some new Fender 8250's on. The bass came with these and i liked it when i first got it. I couldnt get the action right though and the tone was very bright. I think i missed the tension of the Chromes (whatever it may be).
Off came the Fenders and on went a new set of Elixirs. My all time fav string. Still the bass didnt feel or sound right so after one gig of not really liking my bass i think the Chromes will be back on by the end of the week.

Ive just been listening to some very good recordings form our recent gigs and the chromes sit very well in the mix. Enough overtones to get a bright-ish tone without all the clank etc you get with rounds.

Of course im telling people who already know all this but maybe ive got to a point in my life where i now know what i want and whats needed. And flats on a P is a classic combo that will fit almost any type of music.

 

[Sundogue]

Ive been avoiding coming in here as although ive been playing Chromes every week since i got my P5 last Nov i had always planned on going back to nicks.
I miss the overtones you get with rounds. I've had TI's twice and this is my third set of Chromes in the past 5 years. Something kept pulling me back to rounds.
Anyway, last week i got around to putting some new Fender 8250's on. The bass came with these and i liked it when i first got it. I couldnt get the action right though and the tone was very bright. I think i missed the tension of the Chromes (whatever it may be).
Off came the Fenders and on went a new set of Elixirs. My all time fav string. Still the bass didnt feel or sound right so after one gig of not really liking my bass i think the Chromes will be back on by the end of the week.

Ive just been listening to some very good recordings form our recent gigs and the chromes sit very well in the mix. Enough overtones to get a bright-ish tone without all the clank etc you get with rounds.

Of course im telling people who already know all this but maybe ive got to a point in my life where i now know what i want and whats needed. And flats on a P is a classic combo that will fit almost any type of music.

I still continue to think of switching back to rounds...but that is always in the context of playing by myself. Every time we have a gig I am so glad I have the Chromes on, that I know I'd regret putting rounds back on my bass.

For whatever reason, without my bass sitting in the mix of the band, I have a hard time playing with flats when I'm just working on things by myself. But man, as soon as I hit that first note with the band it's just too perfect to consider anything else.

 

[dave_bass5]

I still continue to think of switching back to rounds...but that is always in the context of playing by myself. Every time we have a gig I am so glad I have the Chromes on, that I know I'd regret putting rounds back on my bass.

For whatever reason, without my bass sitting in the mix of the band, I have a hard time playing with flats when I'm just working on things by myself. But man, as soon as I hit that first note with the band it's just too perfect to consider anything else.

I know what you mean.
when i got my Lakland DD last year and first plugged it in that was THE tone i fell in love with. It had the stock lakland strings and Fralin pup. I really miss that tone and i think i was trying to get it back by taking the chromes off.
I now realise that while my P5 still sounds great with the Elixirs the chromes fit in so well with what we do (all covers and a lot of 60's-70's stuff) that i dont need to change. plus at some point ill need to replace the Elixirs as they become older. With the Chromes im hoping they will last me for a long while yet.

I dont slap so i dont need bright strings and although i loved the feel of TI's i thought they were a bit too middy. The chromes can sound bright and i like that for the more modern stuff we have started to do.
The recordings i have done with my MB head and 1212L cab really shows how well chromes sit and even a low D every now and then sounds clear and strong.

Happy for now.

 

[bthiemann80]

After years of playing a jazz w/ rounds almost exclusively i've recently fallen head over heels for the sound and feel of a precision bass w/ flats. For a while I was going back and forth between the two setups but after playing a few shows w/ the precision w/ flats and recording w/ it i've realized that is THE sound i've always wanted. There's so much in that sound of a good precision bass w/ good flats on it, so much of that fundamentally good bass tone.

Anyone reading/subscribing/participating in this thread has probably already come to this sort of conclusion already, just adding my +1!