CRAZY perspective I got from a long-time DJ last night

[MtManiac]

I don't want "more" gigs.... and never said I did.

What I want is for awful bands to stay home. What I want is for good bands to charge more. What I want is a rising tide in the local music business. What I want is for the average quality of live music in small bars to go up.

I don't want more gigs. I want better gigs. And I want to see better live music when I go out. Geezers in socks and sandles hacking up simplified versions of same old same olds with horrible production for tips ARE hurting the music scene.... by sucking as much as playing for cheap.

Whatcha gonna do about it? Pitching a bitch doesn’t seem to be working.

Nobody cares if you think they suck. Nobody cares what you think you’re entitled to. Nobody cares what you think of the clothes they wear. Nobody cares what you want. Markets are like that.

If I want want a whole loaf worth of sandwiches tonight for supper, am I gonna buy fresh bread at full pop, or the day old stuff at 50%? Should the store just throw all the bread out when it’s a day old? Is the store morally obligated to only sell expensive artisanal bread because the guy who makes it says that it’s better?

What a world you must live in!

 

[MtManiac]

"Making music involves more than the voice or fingers playing an instrument; a child learning about music has to tap into multiple skill sets, often simultaneously. For instance, people use their ears and eyes, as well as large and small muscles, says Kenneth Guilmartin, cofounder of Music Together, an early childhood music development program for infants through kindergarteners that involves parents or caregivers in the classes.

“Music learning supports all learning. Not that Mozart makes you smarter, but it’s a very integrating, stimulating pastime or activity,” Guilmartin says"

Invalid Link Removed

That said, I do believe the very best musicians (not me!) are the hood ornaments of civilization. They may not be necessary, but they class the joint up for the rest of us.

I don’t think anyone is arguing about the value of a musical education, at all. The argument is more about how pedestrian it is.

 

[3Liter]

What I want is for awful bands to stay home. What I want is for good bands to charge more. What I want is a rising tide in the local music business. What I want is for the average quality of live music in small bars to go up.
.

But who gets to make the determination what is good or bad? Some of this, I suspect, is market driven. I can only guess that Eastern NC is not the hotbed of musical culture. No offence of course. I live way out in the burbs, if I want to see better musicians, I need to head towards town. Or, there are a couple of venues that put on "party bands" with a bit of a draw. One played up and down the MD Eastern shore (so I was told). The other venue (the one I played) pulls in better bands (I guess, I don't go watch them) but I have seen them around for a while on Bandmix, Facebook, etc.

I don't know what kind of venues you speak of, but around here, I went to see a band the other night in a tiny place (almost all bars are also restaurants in VA). Two of the musicians I have played with before in a jam in the same place. In the crowd were at least 4 other guys I have played with on the jam circuit (I'm a hack, OK). This place pulls in other bands that are basically extensions of the crowd watching and vice versa. I've seen the same in other places. People gets booked because they are entertaining their friends that are already in the venue...may have grown out of a jam night or open mic. So not what you know, who you know.

 

[Bunk McNulty]

Well, that's enough of thi

I don’t think anyone is arguing about the value of a musical education, at all. The argument is more about how pedestrian it is.

The particular post I'm responding to says musicians are mere accessories compared to doctors and lawyers and etc. My response is first that music itself is important for everyone, and second that great musicians provide certain intangibles to civilization. I don't recall "pedestrian" being part of it.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

2fingers - what’s your band’s website?

 

[MtManiac]

Well, that's enough of thi


The particular post I'm responding to says musicians are mere accessories compared to doctors and lawyers and etc. My response is first that music itself is important for everyone, and second that great musicians provide certain intangibles to civilization. I don't recall "pedestrian" being part of it.

My reading comprehension is actually really good, I understood what you were saying.

Music *is* important. Being a musician however is pedestrian. I live on a street with at least six other musicians that I know of. One of them plays guitar and mandolin, and he’s pretty good, knows a lot about music too, but he’s a hack - he’s not a professional, he just walks around his house playing his mandolin and driving his wife and daughters crazy. The guy across the street records himself for YouTube and sells himself as a supporting artist for other YouTube stars. Hes really talented. He’s also about 40 and he works full time at a grocery store as a cashier to feed his family. He also can't jam a 12-bar blues. Throw a rock, and chances are pretty good you’ll hit someone with some level of music education. Throw it a little harder and you could well hit someone who actually considers themselves a musician. Guys on this thread would probably think that guy is a hack. That’s how pedestrian the topic is that we are discussing.

A society needs lawyers and surgeons, and sure, musicians too, but if we had as many lawyers and surgeons as we have musicians, we hopefully wouldn’t have people feeling entitled to practice law or surgery on you every Friday night or at parties.

As it is, music evolved alongside human society and is part and parcel of it. It’s far less of a specialization than surgery or bridge building. Almost all of us have some level of musicianship, even if it’s just recognizing a good beat and dancing to it, just like most of us should also be able to feed ourselves and get along with others. Important, but pedestrian. Unlike urology or labour law.

 

[RustyAxe]

I don't want "more" gigs.... and never said I did.

What I want is for awful bands to stay home. What I want is for good bands to charge more. What I want is a rising tide in the local music business. What I want is for the average quality of live music in small bars to go up.

I don't want more gigs. I want better gigs. And I want to see better live music when I go out. Geezers in socks and sandles hacking up simplified versions of same old same olds with horrible production for tips ARE hurting the music scene.... by sucking as much as playing for cheap.

And you criticized my attitude? I see a whole lot of “me, me me” and “I want” in this post. What you want, apparently, is for all musicians to march to the groove of your drummer. That’s not how it is, was, or ever will be.

If you don’t like awful bands just stay away. Or come and join the “pros” in the back of the room crossing their arms and muttering amongst themselves.

 

[Vooter]

My problem is with hack bands. My problem is with musicians who think that being on stage is some sort of birthright. No effort needed. No TALENT needed. No need to bother with dressing like something other than the landscaping crew or a retiree out for a stroll on the boardwalk. No need to actually get GOOD at playing, singing, harmonizing.

If you can play like a mix between BB King and Satriani, by all means, do it for next to nothing.

But if the ONLY reason you are up on stage is to fulfill some sort if ego trip and be the coolest guy in the room ..... all the while sucking horribly..... (I'll say it again) keep your butt in the garage where you belong.

So just for clarification, are you talking about bands that just play covers, or bands that play mostly original stuff? Because while it takes a certain amount of talent to play other people's pop/rock music well, it's really not the most difficult thing in the world, especially if you're playing essentially the same stuff over and over again. Ninety percent of the work has already been done for you. Do you have the same beef with great original bands, or even poopy original bands? Or is this just a pissing contest between bands that go out and play the "hits" for the local citizenry? If it's the latter, I'll just step out of this conversation, because personally, if your "good" cover band is threatened by a bad cover band, then we're really just talking about cover bands, right? In my world, that can definitely be filed under "Who cares?"...

 

[guy n. cognito]

I play for the sheer joy of it, and I'll play gigs for free every day and twice on Sunday. I don't really care if that hurts some guy with an iPad.

Or other bands. Or yourself. Or the scene in general. But it IS good exposure....

 

[Bass Jones]

This may be stating the obvious but being a working musician or anything in the arts makes you especially susceptible to the economy. We did well in the 90s then around 2000 the gigs started drying up after the economy went bust. We just got less corporate parties and wedding gigs and it was happening to other bands not just us. People see having a band as a "nice-to-have" but non-essential.

 

[rtslinger]

Drinking and eating the club owner? What bars do you play at?!?!

 

[Wes K]

I think for some it isn't about the money. Some people just like to go out and play.

 

[MtManiac]

This may be stating the obvious but being a working musician or anything in the arts makes you especially susceptible to the economy. We did well in the 90s then around 2000 the gigs started drying up after the economy went bust. We just got less corporate parties and wedding gigs and it was happening to other bands not just us. People see having a band as a "nice-to-have" but non-essential.

And also time passed and things changed and you got older.

In the 80s bands were complaining about VJ's. In the 70s, bands were complaining about disco. In the 60s bands were complaining about not getting signed or getting on the radio. In the 50s bands were complaining about TV taking their gigs. In the 40s big bands were complaining about radio taking their gigs. In the 30s, piano and banjo combos were complaining about big bands taking their gigs. Somehow here in 2019 we still have musicians and they still have gigs. Things only change close up. One thing is constant - musicians who think they're entitled to make a living playing music. One other thing too, on second thought - someone else getting the gig instead of the one who believed they were entitled.

 

[two fingers]

Whatcha gonna do about it? Pitching a bitch doesn’t seem to be working.

Nobody cares if you think they suck. Nobody cares what you think you’re entitled to. Nobody cares what you think of the clothes they wear. Nobody cares what you want. Markets are like that.

If I want want a whole loaf worth of sandwiches tonight for supper, am I gonna buy fresh bread at full pop, or the day old stuff at 50%? Should the store just throw all the bread out when it’s a day old? Is the store morally obligated to only sell expensive artisanal bread because the guy who makes it says that it’s better?

What a world you must live in!

Ha! I never said anyone should care. This whole forum is dedicated to sharing opinions that (mostly) nobody cares about.

Who cares if you like flats?

Who cares if you like tort?

Who cares if your Squier plays better than a Fodera?

(Dare I say it) who cares what the best anything for metal is?

Does that stop ANYONE here from sharing his/her opinions?

No.

 

[Bunk McNulty]

It’s far less of a specialization than surgery or bridge building.

I was with you until this bit. If you think this is not "specialization" of the most challenging sort...I don't know what to say!

 

[two fingers]

But who gets to make the determination what is good or bad? Some of this, I suspect, is market driven. I can only guess that Eastern NC is not the hotbed of musical culture. No offence of course. I live way out in the burbs, if I want to see better musicians, I need to head towards town. Or, there are a couple of venues that put on "party bands" with a bit of a draw. One played up and down the MD Eastern shore (so I was told). The other venue (the one I played) pulls in better bands (I guess, I don't go watch them) but I have seen them around for a while on Bandmix, Facebook, etc.

I don't know what kind of venues you speak of, but around here, I went to see a band the other night in a tiny place (almost all bars are also restaurants in VA). Two of the musicians I have played with before in a jam in the same place. In the crowd were at least 4 other guys I have played with on the jam circuit (I'm a hack, OK). This place pulls in other bands that are basically extensions of the crowd watching and vice versa. I've seen the same in other places. People gets booked because they are entertaining their friends that are already in the venue...may have grown out of a jam night or open mic. So not what you know, who you know.

Like most places, Eastern NC used to he better than it is now. The scene has weakened. Sure, a lot of factors contributed to that. But I hear a lot of friends say to me "Almost every band I go see sucks." And these are music fans who aren't stuck in one genre.

 

[two fingers]

And you criticized my attitude? I see a whole lot of “me, me me” and “I want” in this post. What you want, apparently, is for all musicians to march to the groove of your drummer. That’s not how it is, was, or ever will be.

If you don’t like awful bands just stay away. Or come and join the “pros” in the back of the room crossing their arms and muttering amongst themselves.

Fair enough.

 

[Eminor3rd]

Do us all a favor and just jam in the garage if you can't demand more than a DJ with nothing but two speakers on a stick and some fancy lights gets.

Um. No?

How about this: If you're not good enough to demand more than my janky garage band, get better or go get a different job.

 

[MtManiac]

I was with you until this bit. If you think this is not "specialization" of the most challenging sort...I don't know what to say!

Clearly, that's not what I said. Obviously, there are musicians who are really, really talented and skilled, and the level of talent and skill is widely varied across all musicians. There are professional triangle players - *that* is the definition of specialized. What I'd said was that "being a musician" - including all of those varied levels of talent and skill and differences in instrumentation - is far less specialized across society than being a surgeon. Those guys can get any gig they want, and even have waiting lists. Same with bridge builders. If you like, you can include virtuosos.

Hack musicians are certainly in far greater supply than even the least talented and skilled general practitioner doctor working in a walk-in clinic in rural anywhere. Musicians are everywhere.

 

[jnsnj]

Yes if you could only control what other people do.
I play as a hobby and if hobbyists are stealing your business then that doesn't say much for the product you provide. You don't own the right to play live music.