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Crossdressing and bandmates.

#223
Robroy said:
I'll apply a business world example: Sometimes an employee can do the work, but he's a terrible fit for the team culture. When that happens, the employee is terminated. He is terminated because it eliminates the problem.

Now, we can discuss "fixing" the situation, but I've worked at 18 companies and seen a lot of problem employees and situations, some of which were fixed and some of which were simply "fixed through termination".

My point is that once the member is gone, the problem is fixed. Whether or not their refusal to accept him is moral or not is something one needs to take up with their particular deity. But trust me, to them, the problem went away when the person did.

This is how the real world works.
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Not a consultant but I have managed large teams and had up to 28 direct reports. In my experience I would always prefer to have a teachable employee than a Prima Dona know-it all with a victim mentality who always has to be right. I didn't care how much they knew about the job. Getting along with other people is a good skill to have.
If someone uses wisdom they can find a way to dress how they want and other reasonable people will be able to accept them as they are.
 
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#224
In my band the singer is queer, not transgender, but polyamorous. She is also bisexual. Her husband and her female partner live together along with their beautiful baby girl. They are some of the nicest and happiest people I know. I love and respect them deeply. Her story was about being poly-am was published in a major on-line magazine. We got quite a bit of notoriety from it. As a result a lot of queers come to our shows. I am happy to have them as our guests. I love the fact that we appeal to such a diverse group of people and they embrace us warmly.
 
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#226
slobake said:
Not a consultant but I have managed large teams and had up to 28 direct reports. In my experience I would always prefer to have a teachable employee than a Prima Dona know-it all with a victim mentality who always has to be right. I didn't care how much they knew about the job. Getting along with other people is a good skill to have.
If someone uses wisdom they can find a way to dress how they want and other reasonable people will be able to accept them as they are.
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Well put. I've mentioned (in my work environment) that a really productive prima-donna can have a net negative effect on a team's productivity. It's always best to work it out, but sometimes you have to pull the trigger. And the better the manager, the more often it will be the former.
 
#228
monkeyfinger said:
In my band the singer is queer, not transgender, but polyamorous. She is also bisexual. Her husband and her female partner live together along with their beautiful baby girl. They are some of the nicest and happiest people I know. I love and respect them deeply. Her story was about being poly-am was published in a major on-line magazine. We got quite a bit of notoriety from it. As a result a lot of queers come to our shows. I am happy to have them as our guests. I love the fact that we appeal to such a diverse group of people and they embrace us warmly.
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I have been on this mudball for a while. When I was young it was acceptable to use the word queer in a derogatory sense. No one thought twice about it. Not thinking is always a problem.
Later in life a lot of us realized that treating gay people the way we did was wrong and we dropped the word queer from our vocabulary.
Now it appears that the same word is acceptable and doesn't hold the same negative connotation. I suppose it is good that the word has been stripped of any power to express intolerance. I still have a hard time using that word myself. Ah well, I guess I am just an old fart. :cigar:
 
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#230
It kind of comes across to me as a "gimmick" in a band context. (not that there is anything inherently wrong with that) But it would annoy me as much as someone who decided to dress up as Big Bird. (nothing wrong with it, but in context, that seems a little bit of an attention grab). If the crowd digs it, then who really cares.
 
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#231
The two opposite ends of the full of crap spectrum :D

monkeyfinger said:
Let's be honest here, the issue most people have with transgenders is that it has a strong visual aspect. This means that merely being in the presence of a transgender person makes you participate in the transgender experience. If you are not accustomed to this, you may have to make some mental and emotional adjustments. Most of the responses to this post say something like "I am OK with making the mental and emotional adjustments for me, but I don't want to force that on the audience, club owner, etc." Do you see the contradiction? You are implying that each person has a choice about the queer experience even as a passive observer. New flash: No one has that choice! There was a time when Blacks and Whites would never be seen on a stage together. If you were to say, today, that you would not have a Black person in your band because it might upset the management, what kind of reaction do you think you would get here? Probably not a good one. Our society determined a long time ago that your discomfort with multi-racial bands is your problem and you need to make the adjustments. For a long time, people scoffed at that idea citing all kinds of personal rights, including religious freedom. But we stuck to our guns and made it a cultural norm. Why should transgender be any different?
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Don't even begin to compare black people with cross-dressing. You are born with a certain color of skin. You are not born in clothes. I'll work with gay people all day long and I often do and I consider some of them my very good friends. And just like I wouldn't show up in a men's tailored suit if TBird asked me to sub for him in the Nasty Habits, I also wouldn't show up in a dress and Jimmy Choo pumps for a band where everyone wears men's tailored suits. It has nothing to do with keeping people down. It has to do with certain bands having a look and everyone looking like they're in the same band. Violate that look and you stand between me and my money, and I wouldn't do that to TBird's compatriots, nor would I expect him to do it if I asked him to sub for my band. You are always free to turn down the gig if there's something about it that makes you uncomfortable. Bands don't owe anyone anything if they refuse to go along with the program.

Robroy said:
Actually, I have a firm idea of what is masculine and feminine. Funny thing, too, the more men and women embrace their sexuality, the more "sexy" they are to the opposite sex.

Times change, people don't.

Oh, and I looked up metrosexual. Many of the details actually describe me. Heck, I was in a fabric store looking for some stuff to fix up the stage of a venue my band was playing regularly and I was getting so inspired regarding what I could do with my bass gear, my car, my "man cave" etc. that I looked at the sales girl and said, "Dang, this makes me feel really uncomfortable. I feel like I'm getting in touch with my inner f**. She was so startled that she just gave me a blank stare for a second and then busted a gut. :)

But it always works better when men are men and women are women. If I want to get in touch with my feminine side, I reach for my wife.
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And who exactly does it work better for when "men are men and women are women"? Them or you? This may surprise you, but gay people don't give a flying rat's ass what you think about them, nor do they particularly care about being "sexy" to the opposite sex. All they want out of you is to leave them alone and not beat them up or kill them. If they're happy and comfortable in their lives, it's not their problem...it's yours.
 
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#232
JimmyM said:
And who exactly does it work better for when "men are men and women are women"? Them or you? This may surprise you, but gay people don't give a flying rat's ass what you think about them, nor do they particularly care about being "sexy" to the opposite sex. All they want out of you is to leave them alone and not beat them up or kill them. If they're happy and comfortable in their lives, it's not their problem...it's yours.
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Honestly, I wish that were true.
 
#236
lfmn16 said:
It's just stupid nonsense that people say to justify their bigotry. I guess if we aren't accepting of racists, homophobes and misogynists, then we're being intolerant. :rollno:
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Think of it this way: Your local judge tolerates massive amounts of petty and not so petty crime to take place in your neighborhood. Does it make sense to be intolerant of his tolerance?
 
#237
hrodbert696 said:
For some people it's a joke or a performance, for others it's an identity and a lifestyle. @TBird1958 is part of a whole cross-dressed band, and from what I gather it's a hell of a show. But stage wear is very much a matter of the band's identity and concept, and not just a matter for each individual to do whatever they feel like. If it fits with the band schtick, then go for it. If it's just you doing it just because you want to do it, it would be unprofessional and warrant replacing you if you insisted on it.
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They kick ass, actually.
 
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#239
JimmyM said:
No you don't. You've made it very clear you don't. BTW, it IS true. You just don't like it.
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Sadly, it is not that a certain group simply wants me to tolerate (and ignore) their existence. I've done that for decades. No, I am now to be shamed for not also BELIEVING that it is acceptable within my moral standards. It's ok though, since one has to respect the opinion of the "shamer" for it to have an impact.

If a little boy comes up to me and looks up with his meanest face and says, "You stupid, stupid man!", I'll sleep fine that night. I don't expect everyone to agree with, or tolerate me and what I do. I'm an adult.
 
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#240
I am Soma said:
this thread is so close to exploding. i can feel it bubbling.
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Yep. I've been dancing around the fence for a few posts now. I really don't want to say what I "really" think. I'd not get the chance to elaborate with proof.

It's a bit of a tightrope walk.

In fact, I think I've said all I can without crossing that line. I'm going to unsubscribe.
 

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