I don’t play professionally,I attend a few different open mics…and listen a lot ,,take note of what amp and cab configurations are used.and basses,and strings . At these open mics,,the bass is not running through the PA..which I find irritating,,but I guess the PA system that is brought by whomever is running the jam is not capable? At least this is what has been suggested to me. Anyway,it seems to me that a 4x10 cab seems to be heard much better than other cabinets. And I have heard guys running single 15’s,,2x10’s,and even a combo one 15 and a 2x10… so does this make sense to anyone here?
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Cutting through
- Thread starter Pbasslovernyc
- Start date
There is no general rule regarding the speaker size, it depends on each amp and cab.
It's true that the cab (or the speaker of a combo) is just as important as the amp, and that, all other things being equal, the larger the speaker surface area, the greater the volume. But it also depends on the design, some speakers are more efficient than others for the same size.
Last, the ability to hear the bass doesn't only depends on the loudness, it also depends a lot on the EQ. Some amps or players tend to cut the mids, because deep lows and bright highs are more pleasant than mid frequencies at low volume or when you play slap for example. But the most important and audible frequencies for our instrument are in the mid frequencies, so if you want to hear yourself in a band mix, you should avoid scooping the mids too much. And the EQ should be set in relation to the other instruments: we are best heard in the frequency range that is not already occupied by the guitar or piano, so it also depends on what other instruments are played, how they play and how they EQ their own amps. Sometimes, asking the pianist to play lighter on the left hand, or the guitarist to lower the bass knob of his amp can help getting a clearer mix where you hear everyone.
i experienced problems cutting through at rehearsals playing in a 3-piece with my fender ACB50. nothing to do with volume, i was plenty loud enough. i resolved it by using a zerofive lowrider pedal and changing the frequency of my bass signal.
There are so many factors in amplifying basses, and getting a sound that's loud enough, and pleasing enough for the player, out into a room, and have it heard correctly blended. Most bassists take for granted that they will be heard when they set up and check their sound- either at a real gig soundcheck, or a 30 second adjustment and tune at jam. The OTHER factors are- the volume and level of bass produced by the other people onstage, if the kick drum is mic'ed, what the stage amp is, the size, shape and materials around the stage, the size of the audience, and the I.Q. of the person doing sound, if any. A loud kick, or a fool riding the left side of their keyboard, will make your life miserable- and that, is the norm, not the exception.
What I've learned, after 58 years playing, from garages and basements to concert halls, rock venues, jazz gigs, weddings, rehearsals, and casuals on local evening dinner cruise boats- the ONLY thing you have to go by- is amplifying your bass to your liking, and if you are pleased with the sound- the leader may ask you to turn down, or up- depending. If you don't like your sound, or can't hear yourself- what's the point?
What I've learned, after 58 years playing, from garages and basements to concert halls, rock venues, jazz gigs, weddings, rehearsals, and casuals on local evening dinner cruise boats- the ONLY thing you have to go by- is amplifying your bass to your liking, and if you are pleased with the sound- the leader may ask you to turn down, or up- depending. If you don't like your sound, or can't hear yourself- what's the point?
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
1. Bands in smaller venues often don't have PA support.
2. People running open mics often aren't paid much, certainly not enough for a pro level PA.
2. People running open mics often aren't paid much, certainly not enough for a pro level PA.
hasbeen
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I'm a big proponent of the 4x10 and the same about mid frequencies. Keep in mind that lows are often not your friend in a live situation. This is also why I like Ken Smith basses......I like how they sit in the mix. Also keep in mind that what sounds good when you're playing alone, won't necessarily sound good in an ensemble situation. The bass especially, has to find a place in the mix that doesn't step all over the keyboards and/or compete with the bass drum.
If I'm on stage and I can't hear myself, I RARELY turn up the volume. That makes a mess of the mix and makes life tough on the soundman. I set my bass pretty flat. Then, if I can't hear myself, I boost the mids a bit.
If I'm on stage and I can't hear myself, I RARELY turn up the volume. That makes a mess of the mix and makes life tough on the soundman. I set my bass pretty flat. Then, if I can't hear myself, I boost the mids a bit.
hasbeen
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It's tough for me to "get on board" with this approach. I want every note I play to be heard clearly. YMMV certainly. There is a company that named one of their amps the Rumble. I was working at that company as a VP when they came out with that product and I told them my thoughts on the name when I was asked.
A high pass filter and mid boost allow me to tame a lousy room and cut thru my BL's bass heavy Taylor acoustic.
I understand that many bassist want to be heard and I'm not preaching "feel" over "hear".
IME, I think one of the best "heard" basses are the EBMM Stingrays.
But I gotta end with "bottom". As a child, it was that bottom and feel sound of the bass that made me want to learn how to play it.
"To each his/her own."
As has been said before, a 4x10 might be loud (enough) but many 4x10s also sound scooped by their nature. You will typically get much better results with mid-forward speakers with not too much low end. Many 15s are actually very middy and will work well, and I have consistently been getting my best live sounds with a humble GK MB212 combo. Not a single issue hearing myself while being loud enough for most gigs.
It's all about motors pushing wind.
Depends on how many motors, the size of them, and how well they push air.
Depends on how many motors, the size of them, and how well they push air.
As said above, more mids would be the place to start before more speakers.
More speakers usually means more available volume, but volume isn’t the only thing that gets you heard.
More speakers usually means more available volume, but volume isn’t the only thing that gets you heard.
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Yep, it’s not about volume. It’s about each instrument having its own slice of the sonic spectrum. That requires all participants to like and subscribe to that philosophy. For starters, EQ the lows OUT of the guitars.
My kit is made of two 112 cabs and it’s always up to the task in small to medium sized rooms but to me, a 410 has a better dispersion while my two 112 are more directional according to what I heard so far.
I’m no way a professional or a good sound technician though.
I’m no way a professional or a good sound technician though.
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In general, this has not been my experience.
It’s about balance and appropriateness when sharing the sonic spectrum. It’s not about instruments owning a slice of the spectrum.
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It is for people who want to "cut through". Those people need to dominate their slice.
Personally, I don't understand wanting to "cut through". I'm more about contributing wisely to the ensemble sound, using "balance and appropriateness".
"Cutting through" sounds like a gear problem, but IMO you first need to think musically. Are other instruments playing notes in the same octave, e.g. piano? If so sort that out first.
Then, is the drummer too loud for the setting? Sort that out for real.
Then are there loud electric guitars? Get them to quiet down by putting a sheet of music in front of them.
If you have to cut through, your problem is musical, not technical, IMO.
Then, is the drummer too loud for the setting? Sort that out for real.
Then are there loud electric guitars? Get them to quiet down by putting a sheet of music in front of them.
If you have to cut through, your problem is musical, not technical, IMO.
Not unless every variable other than the cabinets themselves has been identical every time.
Yes! Bass heavy guitars are a killer.
Sometimes keys as well.
