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Dean John Entwistle bass

#202
I propose that these instruments will not truly be "signature" models unless they have Mr. Entwistle's signature setup - stupid low action and a dead straight neck. If you're going to buy a "signature" bass from an artist with arguably one of the most "signature" styles there ever was, what's the point if you're not going all the way with it?
 
#203
Tim C. said:
I propose that these instruments will not truly be "signature" models unless they have Mr. Entwistle's signature setup - stupid low action and a dead straight neck. If you're going to buy a "signature" bass from an artist with arguably one of the most "signature" styles there ever was, what's the point if you're not going all the way with it?
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If you had a "signature bass" with Entwistle's setup, it would be unplayable to the vast majority of bassists I know.

I visited Alembic in August, 2006 to discuss the details of my Entwistle Series II replica with them. While we were talking, I asked questions about John's basses, and was told by Susan Wickersham that the action John used was insanely low, almost sitting right on the frets themselves. She told me that once, the Who was on tour and Alembic was going to take him some basses that he'd ordered. They set the instrument up like he wanted it, but took a toolkit along in case the setup needed to be tweaked. No one at Alembic could play it without buzzing.

They arrived at the venue and met with John. Susan told John that if the bass wasn't set up right, they had tools with them to get it that way. John picked the bass up, and began to play it, and said the set up was fine.

Susan also told me that John played using a very light touch with his right hand. That's how he could get that low action and yet still play the instrument without buzz. For most bassists, whose right hand technique doesn't match John's would have a very hard time playing an instrument with such low action. Of course, one could learn to play with a light touch, and that is of course a matter of choice.

The action on my Series II is probably what I'd term medium - not too high, nor too low. It works for me.
 
#204
abngourmet said:
If you had a "signature bass" with Entwistle's setup, it would be unplayable to the vast majority of bassists I know.

I visited Alembic in August, 2006 to discuss the details of my Entwistle Series II replica with them. While we were talking, I asked questions about John's basses, and was told by Susan Wickersham that the action John used was insanely low, almost sitting right on the frets themselves. She told me that once, the Who was on tour and Alembic was going to take him some basses that he'd ordered. They set the instrument up like he wanted it, but took a toolkit along in case the setup needed to be tweaked. No one at Alembic could play it without buzzing.

They arrived at the venue and met with John. Susan told John that if the bass wasn't set up right, they had tools with them to get it that way. John picked the bass up, and began to play it, and said the set up was fine.

Susan also told me that John played using a very light touch with his right hand. That's how he could get that low action and yet still play the instrument without buzz. For most bassists, whose right hand technique doesn't match John's would have a very hard time playing an instrument with such low action. Of course, one could learn to play with a light touch, and that is of course a matter of choice.

The action on my Series II is probably what I'd term medium - not too high, nor too low. It works for me.
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It always looks and sounds like he was hammering the strings though. Not doubting what you say, just an observation.
 
#205
I can only go by what I was told. I do know from my own experience on my instruments that the lower the action, the lighter the right (or left, if you're a lefty) hand must be when plucking/picking the strings. Dig in too hard, and the string has nowhere else to go except against the frets.

There are some folks that actually own some of John's instruments. Would be interesting to hear their perspective on the action their instruments had/have when they first received them from the Entwistle Estate, Sotheby's, etc.
 
#206
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#208
yeah i agree about the action, it looks 'normal' for most people but to pull of the type-writer style you need it lower.

DerHoggz, for all it may look like he is really pounding the strings its more of a precussive strike than a standard pluck (hence the insane action), the whole type-writer style is almost tapping harmonics while fretting the note, a great deal of the force is actually used to pull off the string and keep the fingers in motion. the other thing to consider is the fretting hand needs to be able to tap notes too and the lower the action the less force needed to get a clean note.
 
#210
Re JAE's action, extremely low. In his words, he liked it "under the frets." Requires an almost zero fret nut and TECHNIQUE up the wazoo. There's a segment of a DVD on the making of 'Who's Next' that shows him playing the intro to Baba O'Reilly very close up. When he reaches for Bflat on G string it's very delicately done. I set up my personal JAEbirds with this action but I've found it's not compatible with the style of most bass players. My theory is the Ox's style had a lot to do with taking a horn player's approach. Getting that setup is no problem, knowing what to do with it can be. It's fun to try though.
 
#211


John's technique seemed very different from how 99% of bassists pluck the strings. He does seem to "hammer" them against the frets with his fingertips rather than stroke them like most would. A super low action would make this easier without having to dig in at all.

Also it would seem to me that the "type-writer" technique, hitting the strings agains the frets, would naturally temper how much they vibrate, and therefore there'd be much less buzz than a normal plucking technique would cause, if any at all.
 
#212
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Right Here in my home town!
Playing in a Who Tribute band, I have learned to some extent his "hammer the strings" technique and have had comments on the tone it creates. I don't have anywhere near the dexterity he had but I manage a fair job of it. It does create a real "piano string" tone. One bass player came up an introduced himself. He had this really puzzled look on his face asking "were you tapping, slapping how did you do that?" I told him what i was doing and he still didn't believe it.
I haven't mastered his setup though. I still play with some elevation in my strings. Low action but not as low as John played.
I would really like one of the spyder basses but I couldn't afford that kind of investment. I am not a huge fan of the fenderbird version Dean has created. I found the more I looked the less I liked.
 
#217
I have an Entwistle Spider on the way. The price I saw here is pretty close. Will post pictures and remarks after I have had a chance to play it.

Will be running it through EBS pedals, SWR MO' Bass and Carvin B2000 amps, on top of a full stack of Carvin BRX410's.

Regardless, my neighbors should love me.
 
#218
bassncoin said:
I have an Entwistle Spider on the way. The price I saw here is pretty close. Will post pictures and remarks after I have had a chance to play it.

Will be running it through EBS pedals, SWR MO' Bass and Carvin B2000 amps, on top of a full stack of Carvin BRX410's.

Regardless, my neighbors should love me.
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What did you exactly pay? I desperately want one of these and have been told many prices but I'm not sure which ones are correct. Feel free to send me a PM
 

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