Super interested in a Dingwall Super P or PJ, but they seem pretty rare on the used market. I tried sending an inquiry on the dingwall site about a build since I can't find them used, but it was kicked back to me. Anyone recommend a good site?
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Dingwall Owners Club
- Thread starter FroggyOne2
- Start date
Ugh... frustration rising.
So, I have my awesome Dingwalls, of course. I use them almost exclusively to record (only time I don't is when it's not for either of my primary bands, and am requested to use something specific - probably about once a month, maybe twice on the outside). Love the tone, and when we track everything is sounds fine. Sits right where we want it to in the raw tracking.
Send the tracks off to the guy to mix them. Using a new guy I've never worked with previously, but supposedly has a lot of credentials. Ok, cool. We get back a rough mix, and it sounds pretty decent. Rough in spots and some big issues, and a few little ones. Shouldn't be difficult to fix - some envelope shaping and a glance at some masking to see what is crowding what areas.
Of note: This particular band is bass, keys, one guitar, violin, male vox, female vox, drums. Dense, but certainly space for each instrument.
Worked with this new mixer a bit and he wants to record even more guitar tracks (double, from 2 -> 4), cut all mids out of the bass and have me focus on the "low, low end". "Think beefy lows" is what he said. To me, that basically sounds like "I want you to disappear in the mix". And, come on, those crunchy, awesome mids from the Dingwall are a huge part of what I do.
I shot back some remarks, including a bit of snark. We'll see what he says... but I've never had this happen before, so not entirely sure how to handle the situation. If it wasn't my band, again, I'd capitulate and give the people paying me what they feel they want/need. But this is more.... personal?
So, I have my awesome Dingwalls, of course. I use them almost exclusively to record (only time I don't is when it's not for either of my primary bands, and am requested to use something specific - probably about once a month, maybe twice on the outside). Love the tone, and when we track everything is sounds fine. Sits right where we want it to in the raw tracking.
Send the tracks off to the guy to mix them. Using a new guy I've never worked with previously, but supposedly has a lot of credentials. Ok, cool. We get back a rough mix, and it sounds pretty decent. Rough in spots and some big issues, and a few little ones. Shouldn't be difficult to fix - some envelope shaping and a glance at some masking to see what is crowding what areas.
Of note: This particular band is bass, keys, one guitar, violin, male vox, female vox, drums. Dense, but certainly space for each instrument.
Worked with this new mixer a bit and he wants to record even more guitar tracks (double, from 2 -> 4), cut all mids out of the bass and have me focus on the "low, low end". "Think beefy lows" is what he said. To me, that basically sounds like "I want you to disappear in the mix". And, come on, those crunchy, awesome mids from the Dingwall are a huge part of what I do.
I shot back some remarks, including a bit of snark. We'll see what he says... but I've never had this happen before, so not entirely sure how to handle the situation. If it wasn't my band, again, I'd capitulate and give the people paying me what they feel they want/need. But this is more.... personal?
It's your band, your album, the engineer is supposed to work his magic to make the album sound the way you want it to.
Personally, I wouldn't want to send my mixes elsewhere to be worked on. There's gotta be some opportunity to sit in on the sessions and hash out ideas with the engineer. Of course, as an engineer as well, I don't want to have the band there all the time.
You (and the rest of the band) need to address this as a cohesive unit with the mix engineer.
Bass needs mid focus on tracks to be heard in the mix. I'm not a recording engineer and I still know that.
And I agree, Dingwalls have such great character in the mids that it's a real shame to cut them out!
Yeah, like I said, I just sent my remarks back. Waiting on the other band members to chime in. This engineer is on the east coast - we're in the Seattle area. So sitting in isn't easily done. This engineer owes one of the band members big time, and has agreed to mix these 5 songs (E.P.) to basically come level with that guy. So, from the "business" of the band perspective, we're getting the mix for "free". But, if free ain't going to work, then it isn't going to work and we'll need to go elsewhere.
I think I'm going to take another stab at the mixing. I have some of the tools I need (Neutron, namely, plus oZone)... just haven't mixed in a long time and never anything this dense.
I think I'm going to take another stab at the mixing. I have some of the tools I need (Neutron, namely, plus oZone)... just haven't mixed in a long time and never anything this dense.
If what he's doing isn't what you all want, then he's not really paying off the debt owed, is he?
Absolutely agree. I'll see what he says when I hear back from him. Also asked the band to chime in... everyone's working today and the guitarist is busy with an interview, so it'll be a bit before this is sorted I think. I don't mind going to another engineer, but, that'll be out of pocket since the band fund right now is dedicated to getting some merch, and we burned a chunk on drum tracking (everything else is direct, so no need for studio time there, yay).
For what it is worth, here's the "rough mix" we were sent back
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Like I said, it sounds pretty decent, but the bass is already getting buried. I'm sure some of you can also pick out some of the other issues... and I cut it before the vox kick in, which have their own issues
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Like I said, it sounds pretty decent, but the bass is already getting buried. I'm sure some of you can also pick out some of the other issues... and I cut it before the vox kick in, which have their own issues
Bass is buried, and everything overall is too dark. The kit especially is lacking punch in the high end. Are there keys in that segment? Cuz I can't hear any.For what it is worth, here's the "rough mix" we were sent back
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Like I said, it sounds pretty decent, but the bass is already getting buried. I'm sure some of you can also pick out some of the other issues... and I cut it before the vox kick in, which have their own issues
More guitars would muddy that up. It seems like maybe this guy isn't the right engineer for you. That's a dense mix, quad tracked guitars would just bury everything else. Is it just me, or does the string line or something else occasionally pop up in the left channel and then duck out?
Heh, you're picking out some of the minor issues! 
To me, those issues exist (and more)... particularly things being dark, which I think he tried to counter with over-the-top cymbals.
To me, those issues exist (and more)... particularly things being dark, which I think he tried to counter with over-the-top cymbals.
The cymbals sort of work, but every single drum desperately needs a boost in the high end. The thump of them is great, now they need balancing. That thing with the violin though, well, that's just bad.Heh, you're picking out some of the minor issues!
Does this guy mix for Metallica?For what it is worth, here's the "rough mix" we were sent back
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Like I said, it sounds pretty decent, but the bass is already getting buried. I'm sure some of you can also pick out some of the other issues... and I cut it before the vox kick in, which have their own issues
The bass is just an afterthought for the guitar IMHO.
The kind of funny thing is, later in the composition, the bass and guitar have this neat little shredding section, and the bass disappears even more. It'd be funny if it wasn't so bad.Does this guy mix for Metallica?
Sounds like the normal mixer for half the demos I've done. Sorry man.
If I wasn't so embarrased by it, I'd post the mix I started on. Maybe I will tonight or tomorrow after I've had time to actually work on it a bit. It's certainly not good, but, if I can end up with a good product in the end on my own, it might be easier over all.
"Kalium bridge cables" LOL. Yes, Payson (or Dingwall) are the way to go if you own a Dingwall longscale bass. For the SJ/SP models, just about any sting set will work. The B string is only 35". For roundwounds I have fallen in love with Dunlop Nickel Superbrites on my SJ5, and for flats I really like the D'Addario Chromes. ...for my NG2 and Z3 I use Payson's nickel roundwounds, or Dingwall nickel rounds. Haven't tried Paysons' flats yet. And yes, Payson has the best customer service on the planet!My NG-2 is starting to get some mojo on it, nice to see a bass broken in the way *I* play since this is the first bass I had bought new since picking my first MIM P-Bass off the rack at Guitar Center in 2002. Think I'm gonna hang onto her forever. Can't wait for my new pickups to get in!
Also, finally switched from Kalium bridge cables to Payson strings - highly recommend them. They feel great, sound killer, and the service/communication is lightyears better.
EDIT: ALSO also, @TheEmptyCell - I had the pickguards for my NG-2 done by Pickguardian. Couldn't be more pleased with how they came out. I think I've posted photos in here but if not I'll dig some up when I'm home from work.
I like Payson's nickel alloy reduced core as well. I have them on both of my AB1's. They take a bit to settle down, but once they do, I really like them. I may try the regular nickel alloys or nickels for the 3x, just to establish a slightly wider difference in tonality between the two basses.
Yeah, I just tune VERY low so was using thick, steel strings. Which were nice and sounded great but they TORE my frets and board up. These should be much more gentle and they sound great!
It's your band. Absolutely you should have input on your bass tone on the final product. Sounds like your engineer might specialize in dub bass!
I used my Z3 in my last studio recording. I thought the engineer did an awesome job with my bass track. Very punchy in the low mids with just enough compression. I used Chromes (flatwound) for this song, with a little bit of Wonderlove envelope filter...starting at 3:00 you can hear the bass more isolated...HEADPHONES OR SPEAKER MANDATORY!
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