Do you prefer rear ported, front ported cabs or sealed bass cabs?

[Geddaric]

I have a checkered history when it comes to cabs.

Hold me closer Tony Danza! Or maybe Louie or Rev. Jim.
(For you young`uns, that`s a "Taxi" reference).

 

[LetItGrowTone]

Ok, I have it all figured out now:
"95%" of us don't want hifi @ 41Hz (or 31Hz); almost all prefer some degree of one of several iconic shapings of the low end. Our El Maestro O'Cabthreads already told me this more than once, thank you. So, this is like threads about different kinds of strings. All strings are imperfect in various ways and to differing degrees, and we each "pick our poison" and embrace a favorite. Since "there's no accounting for taste", that's the end of it. It's just opinions.

To the 5%: If you're bothered by the mysteriously unsatisfying low E from your ported bass cab which is otherwise "the greatest bass cab (you've) ever heard", I hope my explanation was helpful. The End.

 

[agedhorse]

Ok, I have it all figured out now:
"95%" of us don't want hifi @ 41Hz (or 31Hz); almost all prefer some degree of one of several iconic shapings of the low end. Our El Maestro O'Cabthreads already told me this more than once, thank you. So, this is like threads about different kinds of strings. All strings are imperfect in various ways and to differing degrees, and we each "pick our poison" and embrace a favorite. Since "there's no accounting for taste", that's the end of it. It's just opinions.

To the 5%: If you're bothered by the mysteriously unsatisfying low E from your ported bass cab which is otherwise "the greatest bass cab (you've) ever heard", I hope my explanation was helpful. The End.

There’s no need to be rude with your references to me as well as “95%” of other members here.

Are you always this obnoxious, or are you just having a difficult day?

 

[LetItGrowTone]

I didn't intend to be obnoxious with that post. I'm sorry.

I repeatedly put quotes around "95%" because you said that (which gives it authority).
And in that post I'm not criticizing them (and I said "us" and "we"); I said it's just a matter of taste.
And "El Maestro O'Cabthreads" was meant affectionately. I apologize for how it sounded.

 

[bucephylus]

I didn't intend to be obnoxious with that post. I'm sorry.

I repeatedly put quotes around "95%" because you said that (which gives it authority).
And in that post I'm not criticizing them (and I said "us" and "we"); I said it's just a matter of taste.
And "El Maestro O'Cabthreads" was meant affectionately. I apologize for how it sounded.

Being a player is a journey, which we all have to investigate in our own ways.

I believe the “95%” reference was due to the fact that while we are bass players, we are entertainers first, hired to provide entertainment to audiences. Said audiences are accustomed to hearing things in certain ways; and that “95%” thing applies to that part of our job.

At the same time, it is a good thing for some of us to push boundaries and try things outside the normal modes. Our audiences seldom listen to any sound reproduction equipment with extended lows. The one exception possibly is the very small fraction of the heavy sub woofer crowd. But, they also don’t tend to listen to mainstream entertainment fare.

IIRC from some of my testing, the wavelength of a 120 Hz fundamental is something like 1.5 m; so, I suppose your 40 Hz fundamental would be around just shy of 5 m (no calculations, so could be wrong).

Most of us perform on stages. I’m not exactly sure how a 5 m fundamental behaves on a performance stage from a mix standpoint. So, I can’t say if it would be a good thing or not. For the most part, one of your earlier posts referred to most amps being stage monitors. This has become true in many cases, since the PA is commonly used to project sound to the audience; even for standard club gigs. My stage mixes all prefer lighter bass tones, so that vocal harmonies are emphasized. But, I recognize that non-Pop playfare may prefer other mix styles.

Still, that V4B design, which triggered this thread, was a design from the days when we put most of our eggs on the backline, and used the FoH primarily for vocals. That has changed. I too like the older cabs. For example, I dragged an Acoustic 360/361 rig around for several years in Holiday Inn lounges etc; and always thought that one sounded fantastic. But, I also recognize that rig would be completely useless for practically all of my gigs present day.

Probably TL;DR. Just lending some perspective for consideration.

 

[agedhorse]

Years back, there was a player here who was utterly convinced that a bass produced only fundamentals, and that their cabinet must be able to reproduce that fundamental or the note wouldn't be heard.

If all that was produced was the fundamental, it would be the equivalent of a sine wave generator and very unmusical at best. I even posted a link to a 41Hz sine wave... but all that resulted in was further and more ignorant arguments. At low frequencies devoid of harmonics, it's also very difficult to discriminate pitch without the harmonics, and without being very careful in a mix, it's easy to negatively impact a mix with excessive LF material. ESPECIALLY in a smaller room, or one with a long low frequency RT-60 value.

The bass guitar is rich in harmonics, in fact at low frequencies the harmonics are about 2/3 of the total signal (it changes with time and how the string is plucked) which is why it's so important to focus on the whole signal rather than just the lowest notes.

 

[agedhorse]

I didn't intend to be obnoxious with that post. I'm sorry.

I repeatedly put quotes around "95%" because you said that (which gives it authority).
And in that post I'm not criticizing them (and I said "us" and "we"); I said it's just a matter of taste.
And "El Maestro O'Cabthreads" was meant affectionately. I apologize for how it sounded.

Sorry, that's not how I read it.

 

[LetItGrowTone]

I accept your apology.

Just kidding.

Thank you for accepting my apology.

 

[Snert]

IIRC from some of my testing, the wavelength of a 120 Hz fundamental is something like 1.5 m; so, I suppose your 40 Hz fundamental would be around just shy of 5 m (no calculations, so could be wrong).

344/120 = 2.87m
344/40 = 8.6m

 

[retslock]

Years back, there was a player here who was utterly convinced that a bass produced only fundamentals, and that their cabinet must be able to reproduce that fundamental or the note wouldn't be heard.

If all that was produced was the fundamental, it would be the equivalent of a sine wave generator and very unmusical at best. I even posted a link to a 41Hz sine wave... but all that resulted in was further and more ignorant arguments. At low frequencies devoid of harmonics, it's also very difficult to discriminate pitch without the harmonics, and without being very careful in a mix, it's easy to negatively impact a mix with excessive LF material. ESPECIALLY in a smaller room, or one with a long low frequency RT-60 value.

The bass guitar is rich in harmonics, in fact at low frequencies the harmonics are about 2/3 of the total signal (it changes with time and how the string is plucked) which is why it's so important to focus on the whole signal rather than just the lowest notes.

I have always been under the impression that for low frequencies to be faithfully reproduced they needed to travel the distance of one complete cycle and that could be several feet or so. I remember older folded cabinet designs.
Ear buds, bluetooth technology and tiny speaker enclosure designs have set my understanding on it's ear - pun intended. I recently borrowed a very small Bose bluetooth speaker while on holiday and as they often do, it punched way above its weight in sound. What I noticed though and this has been my experience with ear buds too is that moving away from the speaker reduces low frequencies quite a lot very quickly. Does that pertain to the lesser distance the sound waves travel with such tiny enclosure designs? Even a phone will allow better low end if you put your ear up close to the tiny speaker.

 

[ctmullins]

First, sound waves are compressional waves, not sine waves. They do not need distance to “develop”. That’s one of the more ludicrous internet myths I’ve run across.

Second, the energy of a propagating sound wave decreases as the square of the distance (pretty sure that’s right; going from memory). That combined with Fletcher-Munson explains why the bass seems to diminish more quickly with increased distance. Also, with modern waveguides (“horn” tweeters), higher frequencies are more directional, with more of their energy propagating in the direction of the listener. Bass frequencies are omnidirectional. It’s also possible that, for bass, there are boundary reflections causing partial cancellations at certain frequencies (applicable to cabinets, not so much earbuds).

 

[bassdude51]

Do you prefer rear ported, front ported cabs or sealed bass cabs?​

WOW! Great question! Which, I can't answer. I'm currently using an Acme Low B 2-10 and I really like it a lot. Best bass cab I've ever owned. It's ported.

A long time ago, I used to own a Bergantino NXV212. I think it was a sealed cab. I loved it also but it was too big for me.

The Berg has a slightly tighter sounding low end sound. Which was excellent. The Acme has slightly bigger and looser sounding low end. Which is excellent. (The Acme has less db than the Berg which means the Acme is not a loud cab.)

Which do I prefer? Man! That's a hard question to answer. Whatever sounds good is the bottom line.

Let your ears be your guide! Ported? Sealed?

 

[Deleted member 394181]

I like to feel the wind on my ankles

 

[Passinwind]

First, sound waves are compressional waves, not sine waves. They do not need distance to “develop”. That’s one of the more ludicrous internet myths I’ve run across.

It goes back to well pre-Interweb, unfortunately.

 

[LetItGrowTone]

My job is pretty boy front man; FOH can provide the actual sound, whatever.

Of course it was a little joke, sorry. Here's what it means:
We are often reminded that Jamerson's low notes were intelligible through a tiny transistor radio because of science. So, we need not mind if our bass rigs sound like loud tiny transistor radios, for intelligibility, because we can send a DI to the house or recording console, and they can provide what the audience wants in the low end.

It is in that context that the tiny transistor radio can be said to be effectively almost FRFR. Of course this is a joke too.

The argument that we don't need the fundamental of low E is easily extended to not needing the entire lowest octave of our instrument, but the notes don't sound the same without (a well-formed) fundamental, so some people want more than just intelligibility. Some people love and demand the entire lowest octave of our instrument. Weird. Those few people should get better informed, somehow.

 

[LetItGrowTone]

It's not only our cab threads that are affected.
For example, don't even try to mention this in, let's say, the Dingwall Club.
No, go ahead and try it!

 

[Rodrigues]

I am a big fan of sealed Ampeg Cabs, but I am not sure if I should buy a fridge again.
In my opinion ported are always boomy - To much low end. That's why I think I prefer sealed.

A lot of people are using ported and most of the brands do not produce sealed cabs anymore.
It is a matter of taste if you like sealed or ported cabs more.

So one question for all who like ported cabs more than sealed
Do you prefer the sound auf ampeg HLF or Ampeg 810 (or 410 HE)?

IF you like HLF more than I think ported cabs are not for me

 

[J Wilson]

I'd be 'agnostic' about this as too many times an amp/cab that sounded great at this week's venue stank up the joint when we went to the next venue.

 

[LetItGrowTone]

To @Rodrigues:

In my opinion ported are always boomy - To much low end. That's why I think I prefer sealed.

In my opinion, the problem with almost all ported bass cabs is that they are tuned too high (above the fundamental of the lowest notes on the bass), and sound bad below that tuning frequency.
A ported cab that is tuned below 41Hz can make a beautifully clear low E, and if it's too strong you can turn it down and it still sounds perfectly clear.
So I wouldn't blame ported vs sealed; I thought I might be a sealed fan before I figured this out, but now I probably like the more free, open sounding lows of ported (provided that it's tuned low enough).

BUT...

IF you like HLF more than I think ported cabs are not for me

...maybe something else is wrong with the 410HLF (according to many people here, and I also sold mine).

 

[tubedude]

Have you tried a horn loaded cab?