Do you use fEARful?

[bigboy_78]

Maybe Greenboy wouldn't get too far in court, but I find Don's willingness to ignore Greenboy's desires pretty sleazy.

If it was “Don, I’ve got a plan for a speaker off the internet but have no idea how to DIY, can you build it for me”.. It’s just outsourcing my labour, to someone with superior skills, not commercial use.

Builders build things. Would it be sleazy if Bob the Builder built me a house using plans I found on the internet?

“Nah, sorry mate. Can’t build you one of those houses. I’m a qualified builder. It says they’re for DIY only”

 

[::::BASSIST::::]

If the *exact* plans were being used I would think a small % given to gb would the right thing to do.

If the plans are altered that is another matter.

 

[BurningSkies]

I've blown one up to kingdom come. Modulus Q6 with the low end cranked playing reggae with a QSC CX120v bridged into mono (2000 watts RMS 20-20khz at .08% THD) and the clip lights lighting up. It let the magic smoked out in glorious billows but withstood quite a bit of it and put out a lot of sound before it gave up. Pretty nasty smell.

I'm not surprised. But then, 'low end cranked' and 2000w into a 15/6 would do that. I play reggae and boost my lows pretty well, but when I hear the speaker start to complain, I know I'm getting close to that limit. I've heard it once or twice bridging my IPR 3000 into the 4ohm 15/6+15sub, although less now that I use a HPF3 and I've never desired to go louder (levels that rival a decent quality fairly large PA).

 

[::::BASSIST::::]

Interesting. What are the differences, legal and financial, between LDS building a publicly released design to GB spec for profit and an Authorized Builder doing the same?

Greenboy has set fairly high standards as to who he authorizes to build his designs. We can clearly see that thru the quality cabinets his ABs have built. I think he is trying to establish and protect a respectable reputation for quality cabs.

And if his cabs are as good all of us 'cult members' attest, should not he be compensated for his outstanding design?

 

[boristhespider9]

I don't like having to type that weird combination of lower and uppercase letters, so I will stay away from them until that changes.

+6

 

[mbelue]

[OT]
Your rig may benefit from TBr fdeck's HPF pre to protect your speaker's low end.[/OT]

Possibly, but it is long gone. Another fine TBer has the combo and I only have one BW cab left. I only have it for testing purposes, if plans go as intended it too will find a new home elsewhere.
My new QSC has somewhat of HPF so I'm less concerned at the moment.

As far as LDS is concerned if you are getting a "deal" from him corners are being cut. Either in his profit or his parts, I expect not the profit due to his still being in business. Having built one I can attest the parts is the MAJORITY of the cost.

IMO anyone who thinks the cost savings is worth substitution of parts has no business commenting of the design. You deviate from spec, it's YOUR turd, don't bag on the plan.

 

[boristhespider9]

Is greenboy like the Wizard of Oz? So mysterious.

 

[Passinwind]

I don't like having to type that weird combination of lower and uppercase letters, so I will stay away from them until that changes.

Sharps and flats must really blow your mind then...

 

[Jim Carr]

...back in the day I had a couple of Baldwin bass amps. One of them was set up with a 15 and a 12, the it was exceptional for the time...
My thought was to add a filler plate to a 1515/66 to adapt one of the 15" openings to a 12" speaker.

That 1215 Baldwin was a great amp. Our keyboard player used one (in the '60s) and I soon discovered it could blow my Essex away. It was actually great for bass—and then there were the "colorful" tone controls, LOL!.

The way that Greenboy's cabs are designed takes into exact account the excursion, resonance freq., and other performance properties of the low frequency drivers.

If you change drivers or dimensions, it is a crap-shoot as to how well it will function.

As it is, you need flexible EQ to get the most out of them, but if an old school guy like me can warm to them, then they are not just a gimmick.

 

[12bass]

I have a 15/6/1 with the true 3-way crossover. The new crossover design brings the sound up to another level, with flatter response across the range. Apart from the fact that I would be better served by the 12/6 form factor, I'm quite happy with it.

 

[jeffmaxwell]

Of course.
It's a 210 with long excursion 10's and a coaxial mid/high unit.
The whole system acts as a pointsource, no phase related issues (and orientation doesn't matter), great dispersion, small, loud with low distortion. What you put into it is what you hear, it's like an onstage studio-monitor.

One pic shows my own cab the other pic the build for another bassplayer.

Who makes that coaxial mid/high that you used in your cabinet?

 

[vbchaos]

A nice example of the difference between legal and moral

 

[the dude]

No.
Not the sound for me.

 

[guy n. cognito]

Maybe Greenboy wouldn't get too far in court, but I find Don's willingness to ignore Greenboy's desires pretty sleazy.

Not in the least. The customer, like Aaron, has obtained the plans legally and honestly. Don is simply building the design requested by the client. Don only builds custom cabinets for customer orders. He never made these for inventory, never offered them on a website or retail location. He is a custom cabinet builder.

It's no more an issue than all of those early adopters that engaged woodworkers, other TB members, relatives or family members to build the cabinet or component parts that they couldn't or didn't want to build themselves.

 

[guy n. cognito]

Interesting. What are the differences, legal and financial, between LDS building a publicly released design to GB spec for profit and an Authorized Builder doing the same?

Legally, there are none. Dave Green has no legal basis to make the plan publicly available, then try to restrict who may build it for an individual like Borgman. Financially, the "authorized builders" pay a small kickback to Dave for every cabinet they sell.

 

[guy n. cognito]

Greenboy has set fairly high standards as to who he authorizes to build his designs. We can clearly see that thru the quality cabinets his ABs have built. I think he is trying to establish and protect a respectable reputation for quality cabs.

And if his cabs are as good all of us 'cult members' attest, should not he be compensated for his outstanding design?

I've seen a pretty wide range of quality from the authorized builders. Exposed plywood edges, sloppy covering jobs, corner covers that overhang the edges and actually have to be removed in order to remove the grill. Granted, most are pretty good, but let's not pretend this is some "protect the brand" issue, since these plans were and are still intended for home builds by amateurs............

You can't make something available for free, and then expect others to give you money for it after the fact. A builder, engaged by a client to build a legally obtained design is of no moral or legal obligation to compensate that designer.

 

[CL400Peavey]

Please show me one example of an AB's workmanship as you described?

 

[KJung]

Interesting. What are the differences, legal and financial, between LDS building a publicly released design to GB spec for profit and an Authorized Builder doing the same?

LDS will not build a 'fEARful' cab. Way early in this whole thing, before there were authorized builders, he built a few cabs loosely based on the fEARful plans, but put in his own changes and preferences, which made some customers happy and others disappointed. So, he doesn't do that anymore.

However, the fEARful cabs use stock drivers. Just like the 212's, 410's, 110's, 610's, etc., etc., etc., Don has made mid driver loaded cabs for many, many years. He has one of the best crossover designers in the business IMO (Ralf Patterson), and his version of the 12/6 and 15/6 cabs based on the stock LF drivers and various other stock midrange drivers sound very good to me. He is one of the best woodworkers and Tolex guys in the business also. The fEARful authorized builders seem to do a very good job also... some beautiful stuff coming out of those shops also.

His 12/6 build, with the 3012LF driver, rear porting (to keep the size small) and the beautiful sounding Faital mid driver, crossed over a bit higher than the standard fEARful crossover is the best sounding 12/6 I have heard to date.

There is nothing particularly proprietary about tuning a box for an LF driver, and then crossing over a nice mid driver, just like there is nothing particularly proprietary about putting four 10's and a tweeter in a square box. That being said, if you want an Epifani 410 or a Berg 212 or a fEARful 15/6, you will need to buy that exact thing from those companies.

Edit: That all being said, the new fEARless 212 looks killer. Love that spec.... one cab that can handle almost any gig, 4ohms/high sensitivity, relatively small, powerful. I'd enjoy hearing that one!

 

[vbchaos]

You can't make something available for free, and then expect others to give you money for it after the fact. A builder, engaged by a client to build a legally obtained design is of no moral or legal obligation to compensate that designer.

Sure you can! You have to differ between the personal purpose and business!
Ever heard of the 'creative common' license (to drag your 'rip-off Linux' example)? You are allowed to play FEARIUM songs everywhere you want for free, but you have to ask our permission as soon as you make one single cent with it! And if we don't allow it, you are just not allowed to play our songs for win. We can ask you to give us 20% of your win and in return give you the permission to play our songs. We can claim whatever we want or just say "neeey, because I had a hangover this morning". It's up to me/us
It's the same with unix - use it for free, make own distributions and spam the world with it, but charge one single cent for it and you are screwed to hell! Ever wonder why apple has rewritten every single code-line? because they had to in order to charge people for their software!

This stands free of the fact that I have no idea whether greenboy's plans/designs are protected in such a way.

Whether somebody is right or not - I just don't see your point of fighting a fight that is
1) old
2) not yours personally
3) not of any interest to the person(s) originally involved
4) you tried to stop in the first place with saying "not this again"

 

[guy n. cognito]

Sure you can! You have to differ between the personal purpose and business!
Ever heard of the 'creative common' license (to drag your 'rip-off Linux' example)? You are allowed to play FEARIUM songs everywhere you want for free, but you have to ask our permission as soon as you make one single cent with it! And if we don't allow it, you are just not allowed to play our songs for win. We can ask you to give us 20% of your win and in return give you the permission to play our songs. We can claim whatever we want or just say "neeey, because I had a hangover this morning". It's up to me/us
It's the same with unix - use it for free, make own distributions and spam the world with it, but charge one single cent for it and you are screwed to hell! Ever wonder why apple has rewritten every single code-line? because they had to in order to charge people for their software!

This stands free of the fact that I have no idea whether greenboy's plans/designs are protected in such a way.

Whether somebody is right or not - I just don't see your point of fighting a fight that is
1) old
2) not yours personally
3) not of any interest to the person(s) originally involved
4) you tried to stop in the first place with saying "not this again"

There is a significant difference between reselling a song and engaging a builder to build a cabinet based on plans that were legally obtained. You are making an apples to bowling balls comparison. I'd also respectfully suggest that you probably aren't aware of my involvement with the LDS / fEarful debate and are speaking way, way out of school.