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early post CBS vs modern fender quality??

#61
Not sure this is even relevant any more but...
The lightest Fender P bass I own is a '64 P, followed by a '72 P and then '97/'57 AV RI. The '64 has a ridiculously low action and if I could see the dang fret markers on the side in the low-light, it would be my main bass for gigs. I use the '72 instead. Under 8 lbs and it just fits my hands perfectly. I have a '78 that is exactly 8 lbs that is a pretty good bass though not the best. I love the neck on it though, like hold a baseball bat.
Probably the best fit/finish bass that I have is an AV RI '57 that was built in 2001.
I guess my point is that there are plenty of nice basses out there from all "vintages".
I have NOT bought several dozen basses that were heavyweights from the '70's. It is not the tone as much as the weight just kills me after a couple hours.
 
#62
Meddle said:
Once again I have to say, what is suddenly with all this 1970s Fender love going on? Is it the recession or does everybody just want a vintage Fender?

For the longest time I remember 1970s Fenders being panned for inconsistent weight, poor fit and finish, mobile three-bolt necks, useless micro-tilt adjusters and weak pickups. Now it seems everybody would crawl over a mile of broken glass for one.
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I've been wondering the same thing.

Classic isn't an absolute era, it's relative to the current era. So a '75 J or P is a 35-year-old instrument, which is well within the "classic car" definition of 25 years.

Yeah, Pre-CBS and Post-CBS does make a difference, in this case. They aren't all the same. CBS did some crazy stupid things, like changing perfectly good things (Master Volume on a Twin? You've gotta be kidding me; my '71 was pre-master, but had the hole drilled in the chassis, covered over with the front panel) and then introducing dogs for products (Zodiac amps, I'm looking at you).

But I think the pre/post CBS thing has cooled somewhat, and people want a "classic" instrument.
 
#63
I get crap from both 60's and 70's fans, IMO/IME there are good and bad instruments from both time frames, each one needs to be looked at as its own entity. The best P I have ever played is a 59 that belongs to a buddy that works for and the second best is my 76 which he likes as well as his 59. The best Jazz I have played is a 74 that used to belong to a friends father and the next best was a 64 I played at an open mic night about 20 years ago.

The point is that there are both gems and turds from any era you just have to search out the gems and bury the turds.

As for the weight issue, yes there are heavy 70's fenders as well as heavy 60's Fender just as there are light 70's (my 76 P is 7.5 lbs) as well as 60's.
 
#64
I'm an old guy... 54 this year.

When I was playing a LOT in the mid 70's (just turning 21 to get into the bars) I went through quite a few basses, but you couldn't pay me to play a new Fender. Why? Because they were UN-cool... they were "Your Father's Oldsmobile" to me, we all wanted pointy Jacksons and BC Rich's ( I had a Wave). A sunburst, single-pickup Precision? Boooorrr-ing!

Besides, at that time, all the older guys were warning us not to sell our older (pre-CBS) instruments, or to sell them to THEM, LOL!!! To me, that's when the whole Pre-CBS stuff started, beacause the current group of working musicians I knew in the mid-70's were pretty much turned off by the stuff coming out of Fender then. And there were all kinds of other, more "sexy" basses emerging. For example, at Ye Olde Music Shoppe in Marissa, IL, I got to try Alembics for the first time, now that's all I wanted from then on.

Flash forward twenty-plus years, now those 1970's Fenders we turned our noses up at are selling for WHAAAT??? Whiskey-Tango Foxtrot???? Come on, there's lots of better choices of instruments out there, probably more today than ever before. If I ever get the insatiable urge to pay thousands for a 70's Fender (Probably for the looks more than anything), I'll go straight to Alleva-Coppolo and have one built RIGHT.

In the interest of full disclosure, I have ONE vintage piece left, my 1956 transition Precision. I would not claim it's sonically superior to anything built well today, but it is distinctive, it has a great vibe/feel, and it has sentimental value because we're the same age. (I'd also like to have a 1956 Ford F100 pickup, but you won't catch me driving it cross-country if I still have an air-conditioned Lexus.)

No Alembics left anymore, either. Fabulous instruments, but my tastes have changed.
 
#65
Just for the record the average 70s Fender price is under 2k, and I posted links to the TB classifieds to two nice mid 70s Ps for well under 2k -- only slightly more than a new Fender and much less than a pre CBS. Btw you couldn't touch used AC for the price of the 70s Ps I linked to!
 
#66
king_biscuit said:
Sorry just calling like I see it. You have constantly gotten Fender information wrong in post after post. And as far as I can tell you had one late 70s Jazz bass you didn't like because it was too heavy. Which begs the question, why did you ever buy the damn thing?
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I already asked that a long time ago :) Look on the bright side. All of the old Fender lovers will unite and live large when all the negative talk and feedback from this type of thread from the anti 70's Fender Tber's cripples the vintage Fender market. The damage from them will leave these gems all to ourselves at ridiculously low prices! The folks that love and want them will laugh last and play proud :rolleyes:
 
#67
:). I seriously doubt anybody would make a vintage bass purchase decision based on the regular TB 70s Fender fang pack. Especially if they bother to read several of these type threads... Unfortunatly I always feel a little dumber after something like this :)
 
#68
bassbully said:
I already asked that a long time ago :) Look on the bright side. All of the old Fender lovers will unite and live large when all the negative talk and feedback from this type of thread from the anti 70's Fender Tber's cripples the vintage Fender market. The damage from them will leave these gems all to ourselves at ridiculously low prices! The folks that love and want them will laugh last and play proud :rolleyes:
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Gems.... Allllll righty then!

I somehow doubt the TB has that much sway over the price of used market gear... But if you dig your Pinto, my friend - live large!
 
#70
king_biscuit said:
Sorry just calling like I see it. You have constantly gotten Fender information wrong in post after post. And as far as I can tell you had one late 70s Jazz bass you didn't like because it was too heavy. Which begs the question, why did you ever buy the damn thing?
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So hostile! So angry!

And tell me - what exactly have I "gotten wrong"?

As for that first bass - I was 15 - it was new and I didn't know any better. It was very nice of my 'rents to buy it for me, but it didn't take me long to realize what a horrid piece of firewood it was. Not just the weight -- the neck was utterly unstable, the finish was insanely thick... No, I had a Ken Lawrence for YEARS and it weight a ton - mass doesn't scare me, as long as the rest of the bass is good -- and my old J bass was *not* (which cracked me up when I saw Fender re-issued it...!)

But buddy - if you like your bass, then why do you care what *I* think? Are you afraid that my word will somehow erode the resale value? Good lord, this is TB, not the BP!
 
#72
BigOldHarry said:
So hostile! So angry!

And tell me - what exactly have I "gotten wrong"?

As for that first bass - I was 15 - it was new and I didn't know any better. It was very nice of my 'rents to buy it for me, but it didn't take me long to realize what a horrid piece of firewood it was. Not just the weight -- the neck was utterly unstable, the finish was insanely thick... No, I had a Ken Lawrence for YEARS and it weight a ton - mass doesn't scare me, as long as the rest of the bass is good -- and my old J bass was *not* (which cracked me up when I saw Fender re-issued it...!)
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You just told us that you were a gigging musician in the 70s and tried an assortment of 70s Fenders. Now you say you were 15 in the late 70s... I wouldn't place much value in the opinion of a 15 year old sorry. What have you gotten wrong? just to name a couple of things, you told us that all 70s Fender had wider necks than current -- wrong; you told us that preCBS was pre 66 -- wrong; you told us that Fullerton reissues were junk because they are CBS -- wrong; you told us that 70s fenders had faulty weak electronics -- wrong; and you have told us that all 70s fenders are heavy with weak pickups -- wrong! Hey, never let facts get in the way of making a point, though.

So you had a bad bass -- maybe -- but that doesn't mean all of them were bad. Get over the hatefest!
 
#73
king_biscuit said:
You just told us that you were a gigging musician in the 70s and tried an assortment of 70s Fenders. Now you say you were 15 in the late 70s... I wouldn't place much value in the opinion of a 15 year old sorry. What have you gotten wrong? just to name a couple of things, you told us that all 70s Fender had wider necks than current -- wrong; you told us that preCBS was pre 66 -- wrong; you told us that Fullerton reissues were junk because they are CBS -- wrong; and you have told us that all 70s fenders are heavy with weak pickups -- wrong! Hey, never let facts get in the way of making a point, though.
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KB, I do believe we've entered the realm of one guy getting his flame on - so I'll bow out politely. Clearly, you are right about everything you have stated - no doubt you are a better player, with better gear than I am. Congrats.

Enjoy your thread.
 
#74
I'm a musical veteran and have played and owned a great number of "classic" instruments. While the premier products from the 50s and 60s were great, the prices that some of these command are insane (I remember what they sold for when they were new and the prices have escalated far more than the rate of inflation). Although some of these may have become good investments for those that own them, their value as musical instruments isn't up to par with top-class modern models. Because of improvements in production technology, new instruments are more consistent than the "classics". The only thing that the classics have over the new gear is that they had better wood available - but that doesn't justify those criminally high prices some pieces sell for
 
#75
Alot of items that sold in the 60's and 70's have increased in value....not necessarily because they were of exceptional quality, but because they have become collectible and in some cases hard to find. I think you can find poorly put together Fender basses from any era and anyone who disagrees is entitled to their opinion. Whenever I see vintage vs modern threads I laugh because at the end of the day you are going to find fans of both and hundreds of opinions from people who have owned and played many and those who have played one or two. The OP (who hasn't resurfaced since starting the thread) asked whether a 72 jazz was on made better or worse than a custom shop bass he owned which was manufactured in 2003. Unless you can compare two basses I don't see how you can properly answer the question. I am sure Fender didn't decide in 1972 that they would take a year off and manufacture sub par basses. Are the prices of vintage basses inflated?? I don't think so. Good or bad, they command the price that the market out there dictates.
 
#76
Gizmot said:
I'm a musical veteran and have played and owned a great number of "classic" instruments. While the premier products from the 50s and 60s were great, the prices that some of these command are insane (I remember what they sold for when they were new and the prices have escalated far more than the rate of inflation). Although some of these may have become good investments for those that own them, their value as musical instruments isn't up to par with top-class modern models. Because of improvements in production technology, new instruments are more consistent than the "classics". The only thing that the classics have over the new gear is that they had better wood available - but that doesn't justify those criminally high prices some pieces sell for
Click to expand...

Never base anything that is collectible on what it costs originally or the price when it came out. There are coin's (pennies) worth thousands ,stamps worth 10's of thousands a single baseball card..well you get the point. A rare coin dealer once told me anything can become collectible and worth allot of money if there is a market and people willing to drive it and purchase from it.
 
#77
bassbully said:
Never base anything that is collectible on what it costs originally or the price when it came out. There are coin's (pennies) worth thousands ,stamps worth 10's of thousands a single baseball card..well you get the point. A rare coin dealer once told me anything can become collectible and worth allot of money if there is a market and people willing to drive it and purchase from it.
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There are snakes that sell for 6 figures so I am never surprised at anything being collectible.
 
#78
The '78 P that I have went to a very well-respected luthier for a fret-dressing who told me it was one of the best necks he'd seen. I have found it to be very stable.
My '72 (that I play almost every day and also take to most gigs) does not seem to have any neck issues either. Stays in tune, I have never needed to reset the relief.
Here in PA the weather is amazingly unstable; temp and humidity all over the map, changing daily. So far, no issues.
I suspect, and I could be wrong, that many of the "bad" basses from the 60's and 70's may have hit the scrap heap.
May even be a better time to buy them than when they were new......
Of course I could be wrong.....
 
#79
Aspidites said:
There are snakes that sell for 6 figures so I am never surprised at anything being collectible.
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Oh, yeah. It's amazing what's collectible.

My first bass was a '78 sunburst Jazz exactly like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1978-Fender-Jazz-Bass-Sunburst-Maple-w-Fender-Case-EC-/130410696254

It wasn't heavy nor did it sound weak. The one bass I wish I didn't have to sell, I got it for around $600 with case, extra strings, etc. at a music shop in '82, and it was utterly pristine, like it had never been sold. If flats weren't so deprecated that I couldn't easily get them in those days, I might have found a way to keep it. I wanted a bit more thump for the music I was getting into playing. Was a very good bass, previous owner already set it up and it was perfect for me. I was so demoralized when I sold it :bawl: I went back to rhythm guitar. I got all my money back, at least.
 
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#80
king_biscuit said:
You just told us that you were a gigging musician in the 70s and tried an assortment of 70s Fenders. Now you say you were 15 in the late 70s... I wouldn't place much value in the opinion of a 15 year old sorry. What have you gotten wrong? just to name a couple of things, you told us that all 70s Fender had wider necks than current -- wrong; you told us that preCBS was pre 66 -- wrong; you told us that Fullerton reissues were junk because they are CBS -- wrong; you told us that 70s fenders had faulty weak electronics -- wrong; and you have told us that all 70s fenders are heavy with weak pickups -- wrong! Hey, never let facts get in the way of making a point, though.

So you had a bad bass -- maybe -- but that doesn't mean all of them were bad. Get over the hatefest!
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+1.
it's obvious that big old harry doesn't care for 70's fenders, and that's fine, but the misinformation that he often posts about them bothers me too.
 

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