EBMM price - ouch!

[mcnach]

I agree - IIRC, for all the bluster about wanting a 19mm spaced 5er, very few were actually willing to put their money where their mouths were...

To be fair, the offer was only for something like 30 days with no previous warning. Not everybody has a stash of cash to put on a SR5 at short notice like that. It was an offer designed to fail.

In addition there were other bits like only available in one colour, one fingerboard option (I think), taking only direct orders (no dealers)... something else. The guy is not an idiot, and he was more interested in "proving" he was right than in anything else, so he set the conditions to favour him.

 

[Bigbri]

Sadly everything is getting more expensive. I bought a BFR 25th Anniv (Reflex) bass 7 years ago and it was $2200 at the time. I thought that was pretty expensive for a production bass and represents the most I have ever paid for a bass. It is a nice instrument though. I think if you find a new good quality bass that speaks to you, you buy it. Rejecting a great instrument over a couple hundred dollars is ridiculous to me.

I think it is easy to say that Fenders are overpriced for what they are because there are dozens or even hundreds of companies doing Fender pattern instruments in all price ranges. EBMM basses are a different story. Barring a few cheap clones, EBMM is it's own biggest competitor for it's unique product designs. If that's what you want, you buy it from them. There aren't any good options. That is why EBMM basses will always have a strong following and strong detractors. They are what they are and are unique in the bass market. Personally I don't like most of their bass offerings. The ones I like are truly great. I think that is the story with most EBMM users.

Over the years I have owned more than a dozen EBMM basses. Most did not work for me and they are gone. The ones I have kept are great basses well worth what I have spent for them. If they came out with something tomorrow that attracted me, I would check it out and buy or not based on merits of the instrument in hand. Today they have nothing I want so they will have to gain revenue from other customers however they need to. Raising prices is one way....

Which ones did you keep??

 

[mcnach]

The way *I* remember it, plenty of people wanted it, until it was time to pony up some cash towards their desires - then, it was all hat, no cattle...

Funny how we both remember different bits of it

 

[mesaplayer83]

To be fair, the offer was only for something like 30 days with no previous warning. Not everybody has a stash of cash to put on a SR5 at short notice like that. It was an offer designed to fail.

In addition there were other bits like only available in one colour, one fingerboard option (I think), taking only direct orders (no dealers)... something else. The guy is not an idiot, and he was more interested in "proving" he was right than in anything else, so he set the conditions to favour him.

Funny how we both remember different bits of it

OK, maybe I'm wrong about that...

 

[Wood and Wire]

FWIW : this price increase puts the U.S. market in line with EBMM prices in other territories.

Maybe the U.S. enjoyed 18 months of introductory pricing, on the Cutlass, and Caprice, and somewhat subsidised pricing across the board...

Maybe a corresponding price increase will be visited upon other territories...

Obviously EBMM are a significantly smaller company, than the likes of Fender, or Gibson (without the ability to absorb certain costs, or offset / cross-collateralise expenses in quite the same way), but also make something of a niche product (which puts them in a potentially more precarious position) - and there are clearly things going on in the guitar making business right now.

CITES can't have helped, but beyond that, there seems to be a shortage of seasoned wood available : almost all of EBMM's 2018 range is only available with a roasted neck (which tends to be indicative of green wood being used).

Of the non-roasted maple, it seems to fall in to two extremes :

Extremely figured (birds eye so extreme, it almost looks like mildew / flame so extreme, it looks like tiger stripes).

Extremely non-figured (maple so plain, it looks like pine).


Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love EBMM, but I long for the quality of wood, and prices we enjoyed in the 1990's.

 

[drTSTingray]

I agree - IIRC, for all the bluster about wanting a 19mm spaced 5er, very few were actually willing to put their money where their mouths were...

This is quite correct as there were literally hundreds of responses in the thread. The limitations of the offer (colour, other options) moaned about by those who wouldn't partake when it came to coming up with a deposit were really only similar to any other limited edition offer EBMM have produced - one month ordering window - limited colour etc.

It's not clear how this was something produced to fail - more likely there were a lot of keyboard tyre kickers just taking part in a row - a shame for the guys who really were willing to sign up (about 5 IIRC - from a thread with hundreds of replies).

It goes to show that those makers who choose to produce 5 strings with lower than 19 MM spacing have probably judged the market right.

 

[drTSTingray]

CITES can't have helped, but beyond that, there seems to be a shortage of seasoned wood available : almost all of EBMM's 2018 range is only available with a roasted neck (which tends to be indicative of green wood being used).

Of the non-roasted maple, it seems to fall in to two extremes :

Extremely figured (birds eye so extreme, it almost looks like mildew / flame so extreme, it looks like tiger stripes).

Extremely non-figured (maple so plain, it looks like pine).


Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love EBMM, but I long for the quality of wood, and prices we enjoyed in the 1990's.

I disagree with this - the roasted necks seem to be a sought after option on EBMMs - I doubt it's indicative of poor wood.

The description of the figured maple is also wrong in my view and the figured necks are great if you like that sort of thing - in fact the classic Stingray does hark back to the early 90s era - my 2010 Classic Ray, which I've had from new has a fabulous birds eye figured neck - on a par with the one on my 90s Fretless.

I think your assertions on wood are wrong.

On price, how do these levels compare with Fender team built custom shop and the US Elite and latest version of vintage reissue? I haven't seen prices for CS for ages.

 

[Wood and Wire]

I disagree with this - the roasted necks seem to be a sought after option on EBMMs - I doubt it's indicative of poor wood.

The description of the figured maple is also wrong in my view and the figured necks are great if you like that sort of thing - in fact the classic Stingray does hark back to the early 90s era - my 2010 Classic Ray, which I've had from new has a fabulous birds eye figured neck - on a par with the one on my 90s Fretless.

I think your assertions on wood are wrong.

On price, how do these levels compare with Fender team built custom shop and the US Elite and latest version of vintage reissue? I haven't seen prices for CS for ages.

I didn't say poor wood.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the wood, but unless it has been seasoned for a long time, it has to be artificially seasoned, by roasting, in order to be stable.

FWIW, well seasoned wood can be roasted, to remove even more moisture - and personally, I love it aesthetically.

The Stingray's of the 70's and 80's used maple that was a beautiful mix, of both flame, and birds eye - but always quite subtle.

The Stingray's of the 90's had more flamboyantly figured woods, the birds eye sparkled, and the flame was quite lenticular in it's effect - but the figuring was much less dense.

The Stingray's of the last few years have had almost featureless maple on the standard instruments, whereas the classic series have maple that is so highly figured, it's museum grade - there's no middle ground.


Last time I looked, the Fender offerings (that were available) were more expensive than their EBMM counterparts.

The Fender MIM, and U.S. Standards were obviously considerably cheaper (about £500~ for a MIM / £1000~ US Standard).

 

[maplenecked]

FWIW : this price increase puts the U.S. market in line with EBMM prices in other territories.

Maybe the U.S. enjoyed 18 months of introductory pricing, on the Cutlass, and Caprice, and somewhat subsidised pricing across the board...

Maybe a corresponding price increase will be visited upon other territories...

Obviously EBMM are a significantly smaller company, than the likes of Fender, or Gibson (without the ability to absorb certain costs, or offset / cross-collateralise expenses in quite the same way), but also make something of a niche product (which puts them in a potentially more precarious position) - and there are clearly things going on in the guitar making business right now.

CITES can't have helped, but beyond that, there seems to be a shortage of seasoned wood available : almost all of EBMM's 2018 range is only available with a roasted neck (which tends to be indicative of green wood being used).

Of the non-roasted maple, it seems to fall in to two extremes :

Extremely figured (birds eye so extreme, it almost looks like mildew / flame so extreme, it looks like tiger stripes).

Extremely non-figured (maple so plain, it looks like pine).


Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love EBMM, but I long for the quality of wood, and prices we enjoyed in the 1990's.

Interesting points!

 

[Runnerman]

With the exception of that goofy looking bow tie guitar, I've always admired their gear. Great stuff. That thing looks like something Gibson would have put out recently.

Actually, if they made it in a bass, I'd have to buy it.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

The way *I* remember it, plenty of people wanted it, until it was time to pony up some cash towards their desires - then, it was all hat, no cattle...

Sterling Ball proved most who post on forums are tire kickers. The response would have been the same for any special model, not just a wide spaced SR5. He came across to me as someone who could not take criticism of his vision.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Actually, if they made it in a bass, I'd have to buy it.
View attachment 2964517

Wouldn’t that be a terrible shape for bass? With the bridge in the middle of the body.

 

[Runnerman]

Wouldn’t that be a terrible shape for bass? With the bridge in the middle of the body.

I'm thinking with the longer scale of a bass you could keep the overall proportions pretty close and just move the bridge back. If I could photoshop, I'd try it. But alas.

 

[drTSTingray]

I'm thinking with the longer scale of a bass you could keep the overall proportions pretty close and just move the bridge back. If I could photoshop, I'd try it. But alas.

I believe they have a plan for a bass version - short scale IIRC.

 

[MotorCityMinion]

"Actually, if they made it in a bass, I'd have to buy it."

It takes all kinds, ya know. Somebody had to design it. Somebody approved it. Makes one wonder.

 

[jd56hawk]

Not the same - if you A/B them, it becomes clear that the US EBMM is the superior instrument... Sure, some people are willing to sacrifice some quality to save money, others are not - nothing wrong with either approach, it just depends on your situation... This is not unlike the differences between G&L's Tribute line and their USA models - only even more pronounced, since the electronics differences between EBMMs import lines and their USA stuff are significant...

Sure, but some people still prefer the Ray 34, judging by the responses.
I can afford the Music Man but I'd still buy the Ray 34…quality doesn't concern me when it's negligible.

 

[BobKos]

Which ones did you keep??

I kept the Reflex 4 string models (5) in various pickup configurations and various levels of embellishment. I like them. I also kept a Stingray Classic because it had sacrilegious mods done to it that made it the perfect Stingray for me.

 

[mesaplayer83]

Sure, bit some people still prefer the Ray 34, judging by the responses.
I can afford the Music Man but I'd still buy the Ray 34…quality doesn't concern me when it's negligible.

IMO, the quality differences aren't "negligible", but just as people buy G&L Tributes to save money, they also buy Ray 34 basses to save money...

 

[mesaplayer83]

Sterling Ball proved most who post on forums are tire kickers. The response would have been the same for any special model, not just a wide spaced SR5. He came across to me as someone who could not take criticism of his vision.

OK, I remember the tire kicker part - but am not surprised by your last sentence, either...

 

[metron]

To be fair, the offer was only for something like 30 days with no previous warning. Not everybody has a stash of cash to put on a SR5 at short notice like that. It was an offer designed to fail.

In addition there were other bits like only available in one colour, one fingerboard option (I think), taking only direct orders (no dealers)... something else. The guy is not an idiot, and he was more interested in "proving" he was right than in anything else, so he set the conditions to favour him.

I thought it was 2 weeks. The whole thing came about because of a thread or a few threads where at least a handful of TB members said they would buy a 19mm Ray "in a NY minute". Somehow that telephone-gamed into "tons of people said they would buy one today" which was put to the test by Sterling in his put up or shut up style offer. Of course, there never were tons of people clamoring for the instrument and so it wasn't difficult to "prove" such a specious claim. It was only ever just a handful of enthusiastic people that said they would buy one. I'm sure some of them still would.