Eden Forum Disappears

[agedhorse]

Just for a reality check, I think you will find that achieving 200 watts RMS mechanical power handling out of the delta 10 under the best of tuning conditions will be more of a challenge than you assume.

 

[old_thumper]

Just for a reality check, I think you will find that achieving 200 watts RMS mechanical power handling out of the delta 10 under the best of tuning conditions will be more of a challenge than you assume.

Could be. I am just pulling the info off the Eminence spec sheets. I was told by the tech that put the BP-102s in the D210XLT cab that he uses Eminence Delta-10A for speaker replacement in an Eden D410XST cab. The old Eden EC1060XS are rated at 250W. I don't plan on running the D210XLT cab much beyond the 350W rating either with the BP-102s or the Delta-10Bs. I don't like the idea of blowing drivers or tweeters so I will try to stay in a "safe" range for the speakers and the cabs.

How well do you think the Delta-10B will match the D210XLT cab for size and porting? Since Eminence won't share the made by Eminence for Eden speaker specs, it's all a guessing game. That's why I asked Eminence what they thought would be a "best fit' for what they offer. Do you have a cabinet program that can "test" whether the speaker is a good match for the cab? I can get you the cab internal dimensions and port sizes and volumes.

Do you have a better recommendation for a replacement speaker for the D210XLT that will sound like most like what was originally in there?

 

[agedhorse]

I don’t have information on the cabinet, just commenting on the claimed power handling so you don’t damage perfectly good speakers from inaccurate information.

 

[old_thumper]

Well, I ordered some Eminence Delta 10Bs for the one D210XLT. I have another D210XLT now that had the made by Eden speakers and would work OK at lower volumes but at mid volume the speakers were seeming to over travel. I took the grill off and then I could see that both speakers had creases in them from the previous owners over driving them. I have ordered the recone kits and will get that cab back in working order as well.

So... my latest ( and quite possibly the last Eden ) is a used D410XST. I was originally looking for a D210XST but this one seemed doable. I contacted the folks and they assured me it was in fine working order. $460 with S/H and taxes. It comes in and I plug it in and all sorts of debris comes flying out the lower port ( the only one it has ). leaves, shredded insulation, mouse turds... I yank the bottom 2 speakers and the bottom is full of trash to half way up. Of course, this was another GC purchase. I did test it enough to believe that all the drivers were good. With the cab being the way it was, I wanted $200 of what I paid. I got $175 off. I got the cab for under $300. I've already yanked all the speakers. All are original - made 2/11/04 and all are the EC1060XS model. I've already pulled all the insulation and trash out and vacuumed it as clean as I can get it. I'll probably spray paint over the mouse pee stains, then replace the insulation and load the speakers back in. Then I will get to mix and match what I have and listen to the differences and enjoy. Once I have them all working, I may get a pic posted.

 

[old_thumper]

Hey @DavidEdenAria, I understand wanting to have speakers close to ear level. I have a DNS-210 that sat on the ground for rehearsals of our Blues/Rock group in our rehearsal studio, so I was about 2-feet away from it but down at my knees. I put it up on a short table to get it up a bit. Not a big deal in our rehearsal studio because it's not that big and it can easily be heard. However the first time I gigged with it I wasn't sure it was going to be enough so I stacked it on top of my DNS-410 although I only had the 210 hooked up. Thought was that I could use my 410 if the 210 wasn't enough and it would just take me a few seconds to unplug the 210 and plug in the 410. I found out quickly that the DNS-210 was more than enough.

It was a weird stage set up in a corner. Where I was standing my speakers were only about 3-feet behind me and close to ear level. At sound check I walked around the perimeter of the club (wireless is great for this!) and with my master set at 10 o'clock (800-watt Eden amp bridged at 800-watts), we had a nice balance throughout the room. When we started playing I stood in front of my stack and it was painful. After that song I shoved it as far to stage left (audience right) as it could go, which wasn't that far. After the second song I moved it up towards the front of the stage a bit to get my ears out of the 60° dispersion cone of the speakers. I could still easily hear it but it was no longer painful. I actually learned from that experience to not get it too close to my ears when playing those levels. I bought an amp stand after that to get it more around waist level by itself.

This was the set-up after sound check but before we started. The tables were removed from the dance floor before we started. I ended up moving the mains on stage left over as far as they would go in an effort to get out from in front of my 210. It was just too dang loud to stand in front of right there. I'll probably never play with both of these cabs hooked up even though it looks really cool.
View attachment 4090510

Looking for some opinions here. I ran across a thread in Talkbass where people were talking about different manufactures of bass equipment and catagorizing them by sound. This manufacturer was soo 70s; that one was so 80s. What stuck me is that they said Eden was so 90s. I don't quite know what to think about that. If that's true, does it make it old or bad? What types of bass gear is considered so 2000? 2010? 2020?

To me Ampeg has an Ampeg sound. I don't really consider it 60s or 70s or whatever. SWR has its own sound which I call "HiFi". To me, I really enjoy that Eden sound - amp wise and cab wise. Very usable over a wide variety of music styles without being too noticeable. Granted the tech of Eden cabs is getting "old" but I don't think that makes the sound less desirable. The only downside to Eden and the D series cabs I can think of is their size and weight.

I'd like to know what other folks opinions are and especially what is considered " the right sound and tech " for that last 20 or 30 years.

Thanks all.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

Looking for some opinions here. I ran across a thread in Talkbass where people were talking about different manufactures of bass equipment and catagorizing them by sound. This manufacturer was soo 70s; that one was so 80s. What stuck me is that they said Eden was so 90s. I don't quite know what to think about that. If that's true, does it make it old or bad? What types of bass gear is considered so 2000? 2010? 2020?

To me Ampeg has an Ampeg sound. I don't really consider it 60s or 70s or whatever. SWR has its own sound which I call "HiFi". To me, I really enjoy that Eden sound - amp wise and cab wise. Very usable over a wide variety of music styles without being too noticeable. Granted the tech of Eden cabs is getting "old" but I don't think that makes the sound less desirable. The only downside to Eden and the D series cabs I can think of is their size and weight.

I'd like to know what other folks opinions are and especially what is considered " the right sound and tech " for that last 20 or 30 years.

Thanks all.

I, of course, think the Eden sound is and will continue to be very relevant and would not restrict it to a particular decade. The sound of the amps in the WT, WTP, WTX, and TN series all are extremely clear and articulate with a little bit of warmth. Unlike amps with specific voicing, it does not hide the sound of your bass, but lets it come through as it is. I have both WT and TN amps and my little class D TN-226 (225-watts) sounds just as good as my 800-watt WT500/800, just nowhere near the power. I also have an Eden Nemesis RS400 amp (400-watts rms) that does not have the warmth of my WT or TN amps. But it is close enough to the sound of my "gold-face" amps that I gigged with it for 3 months while my WT500/800 was in for repair. I would really like to see them come out with a dual powerblock Class D bridgeable amp, but not sure that's even possible.

The Eden cabs always sound good. In the D-series, the XLT cabs have a built-in low mid hump, so they are voiced cabs. That low-mid hump gives them great definition and presence in the mix - just superb sound. The XST cabs are what i would refer to as Hi-fi cabs. They have a very flat response curve with no frequency hump anywhere. To get them to sound similar to the XLT cabs, you need to dial in a little bit of boost in the low mids anywhere between 250Hz and 500Hz. I dial in a little boost at 250Hz. It doesn't take much and if you hear your sound honk at you, you need to dial that boost back until it goes away.

I also have a couple of Eden EX-112 cabs, which totally surprised me. The EX series is the lowest priced cab series that Eden currently offers. I bought one to play a small brew pub because a friend of mine, Paul in Derwick UK, just ranted and raved about them shortly after they came out. So he's been playing them for years. Price at the time was $269 so I snagged one. I dialed in my normal slight boost at 250Hz. It sounded so good the first night I played it at the brewpub that I immediately bought a second one and used both for medium venues. It's a very compact 112. It doesn't have a separate tweeter horn but has a whizzer cone (smaller cone inside the main woofer cone). I was very apprehensive about it but it just sounds superb.

Here's Youtube video of our band playing Somebody to Love by the Jefferson Airplane. Our Keys player Joan is the one singing and if you look closely you might catch a glimpse of her from time to time. This is just an iPhone recording of the song as we played it for the second time together and it's not the best recording but you can hear my bass clearly and distinctly throughout. And that's with two of those EX-112 cabs, which are discontinued now...at least I got mine!



And below is a close up of my stack when I played there. Notice I turned them sideways so the ports aligned and even turned on end like that my amp still hung over at both sides. You can see the whizzer cones in the second pic.Those cabs handle 300-watt rms each and each one was in its own power channel which could send as much as 400-watts to them. But I never got close to sending that much power. My master was set at 10 o'clock here.

 

[firebass6]

That was a great combination. We used to call that the "Vinnie Rig" because one of the forum members ran that with a WT405 and said it was the best mix of cabs to run.

Wasn’t that the corona rig? I seem to remember Vinny using 2 210 xst with a 405?

 

[dabis]

I, of course, think the Eden sound is and will continue to be very relevant and would not restrict it to a particular decade. The sound of the amps in the WT, WTP, WTX, and TN series all are extremely clear and articulate with a little bit of warmth. Unlike amps with specific voicing, it does not hide the sound of your bass, but lets it come through as it is. I have both WT and TN amps and my little class D TN-226 (225-watts) sounds just as good as my 800-watt WT500/800, just nowhere near the power. I also have an Eden Nemesis RS400 amp (400-watts rms) that does not have the warmth of my WT or TN amps. But it is close enough to the sound of my "gold-face" amps that I gigged with it for 3 months while my WT500/800 was in for repair. I would really like to see them come out with a dual powerblock Class D bridgeable amp, but not sure that's even possible.

The Eden cabs always sound good. In the D-series, the XLT cabs have a built-in low mid hump, so they are voiced cabs. That low-mid hump gives them great definition and presence in the mix - just superb sound. The XST cabs are what i would refer to as Hi-fi cabs. They have a very flat response curve with no frequency hump anywhere. To get them to sound similar to the XLT cabs, you need to dial in a little bit of boost in the low mids anywhere between 250Hz and 500Hz. I dial in a little boost at 250Hz. It doesn't take much and if you hear your sound honk at you, you need to dial that boost back until it goes away.

I also have a couple of Eden EX-112 cabs, which totally surprised me. The EX series is the lowest priced cab series that Eden currently offers. I bought one to play a small brew pub because a friend of mine, Paul in Derwick UK, just ranted and raved about them shortly after they came out. So he's been playing them for years. Price at the time was $269 so I snagged one. I dialed in my normal slight boost at 250Hz. It sounded so good the first night I played it at the brewpub that I immediately bought a second one and used both for medium venues. It's a very compact 112. It doesn't have a separate tweeter horn but has a whizzer cone (smaller cone inside the main woofer cone). I was very apprehensive about it but it just sounds superb.

Here's Youtube video of our band playing Somebody to Love by the Jefferson Airplane. Our Keys player Joan is the one singing and if you look closely you might catch a glimpse of her from time to time. This is just an iPhone recording of the song as we played it for the second time together and it's not the best recording but you can hear my bass clearly and distinctly throughout. And that's with two of those EX-112 cabs, which are discontinued now...at least I got mine!



And below is a close up of my stack when I played there. Notice I turned them sideways so the ports aligned and even turned on end like that my amp still hung over at both sides. You can see the whizzer cones in the second pic.Those cabs handle 300-watt rms each and each one was in its own power channel which could send as much as 400-watts to them. But I never got close to sending that much power. My master was set at 10 o'clock here.

View attachment 4137195 View attachment 4137229

I was too close to pick one EX-112 used for 100€, but I thought it would not handle ina a rock band. Finally I got an SWR GIIIjr 2x10. Do you find in general the Goliath voicing similar to the XST series? I think some people desagree here, but I didn't compared these so far.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

I was too close to pick one EX-112 used for 100€, but I thought it would not handle ina a rock band. Finally I got an SWR GIIIjr 2x10. Do you find in general the Goliath voicing similar to the XST series? I think some people desagree here, but I didn't compared these so far.

Hey @dabis,
Man you should have snagged two of them at that price and if your amp would handle a 2 ohm, you should have grabbed 4. They handle a rock band just fine! And talk about a crazy modular system. Had a fellow from Denmark who used four of Eden's top-of-the-line D112XLT cabs, just bringing as many as he needed for wherever he was playing. Now, these EX112's don't sound quite as good as the D112XLT's but there's nowhere near $600 difference in sound for each ($269 for the EX112 vs ~$900 for the D112XLT). I was amazed by them Again, I was apprehensive about it but Paul, one of the guys from the Eden forum, just went on and on about them. He'd been gigging with them for years and proselytizing about them. He was right. They are great cabs.

You know I have not heard an SWR GIIIjr 210, so I can't say. The XST cabs have a very flat frequency response (hi-fi sound) and both a tighter and lower bottom end than the XLT cabs. The XLT bottom end sounds really good and the XST sounds better.

 

[DavidEdenAria]

Hey @dabis,
Man you should have snagged two of them at that price and if your amp would handle a 2 ohm, you should have grabbed 4. They handle a rock band just fine! And talk about a crazy modular system. Had a fellow from Denmark who used four of Eden's top-of-the-line D112XLT cabs, just bringing as many as he needed for wherever he was playing. Now, these EX112's don't sound quite as good as the D112XLT's but there's nowhere near $600 difference in sound for each ($269 for the EX112 vs ~$900 for the D112XLT). I was amazed by them Again, I was apprehensive about it but Paul, one of the guys from the Eden forum, just went on and on about them. He'd been gigging with them for years and proselytizing about them. He was right. They are great cabs.

You know I have not heard an SWR GIIIjr 210, so I can't say. The XST cabs have a very flat frequency response (hi-fi sound) and both a tighter and lower bottom end than the XLT cabs. The XLT bottom end sounds really good and the XST sounds better.

Im running my Eden Metro thru a pair of TL606 w EV 15Ls and a later Acoustic 8x10 that i have braced modded the cab extensively (it was boomy before the mod).

No issue with either cab setup.....im running a 65 Epiphone Newport w neck 'mudbucker' a lot and the whole rig gives very good clarity, way better than Jack Bruce tone of the 60's w the EB basses etc...much cleaner and enough top end to suit me is available (though i run GHS Pressurewounds not flats so that helps).

It takes very little EQ adjustment to get the Newport into P bass territory which is all i want! The EV15L are legendary speakers though limited in volume but amazing clarity.

I really want to play thru an Eden cab someday....i have to keep the gain on the Metro down with the Newport bass as the 'mudbucker' is a bit microphonic standing near the amp but it is a massive clear sound indeed.

 

[DavidEdenAria]

Looking for some opinions here. I ran across a thread in Talkbass where people were talking about different manufactures of bass equipment and catagorizing them by sound. This manufacturer was soo 70s; that one was so 80s. What stuck me is that they said Eden was so 90s. I don't quite know what to think about that. If that's true, does it make it old or bad? What types of bass gear is considered so 2000? 2010? 2020?

To me Ampeg has an Ampeg sound. I don't really consider it 60s or 70s or whatever. SWR has its own sound which I call "HiFi". To me, I really enjoy that Eden sound - amp wise and cab wise. Very usable over a wide variety of music styles without being too noticeable. Granted the tech of Eden cabs is getting "old" but I don't think that makes the sound less desirable. The only downside to Eden and the D series cabs I can think of is their size and weight.

I'd like to know what other folks opinions are and especially what is considered " the right sound and tech " for that last 20 or 30 years.

Thanks all.

I would describe my Eden Metro as clean and warm but lots of dynamics even with powerful pickups.....my GK 800RB is clean until you 'hit the rails'...i dont think the voicing is vastly different....ive run the Metro and GK 800RB together and its beyond massive even at lower volumes...that said none of my speakers have a lot of breakup because i dont drive them that hard....i dont think the Eden Metro sound is far off from say what ive heard of Mark Bass amps.

Not hearing a real 'baked in sound' with most Edens (compared to some other brands) but one that does let the bass tone come through with warmth and clarity...maybe im just guessing here?

 

[old_thumper]

I would describe my Eden Metro as clean and warm but lots of dynamics even with powerful pickups.....my GK 800RB is clean until you 'hit the rails'...i dont think the voicing is vastly different....ive run the Metro and GK 800RB together and its beyond massive even at lower volumes...that said none of my speakers have a lot of breakup because i dont drive them that hard....i dont think the Eden Metro sound is far off from say what ive heard of Mark Bass amps.

Not hearing a real 'baked in sound' with most Edens (compared to some other brands) but one that does let the bass tone come through with warmth and clarity...maybe im just guessing here?

I've never had the chance to play through a GK anything ( head or cab ) and haven't really got hear anyone who had them. They don't show up very often in places like Guitar Center. I've looked into the GK heads but get confused by the set ups on some GK amps ( like a popular one that has 2 channels but it's not stereo and has as weird power split for the highs and the lows - I guess really meant for a specific GK cab ). Are GKs more like an Ampeg? Are they the "Mesa Boogie" of bass amps?

I'd agree with the " no baked in sound " thing for Eden amps and actually run the my WT800 flat. I might tweak the the Navigator preamp a bit because the power section is a Crown XLS 1500 and curved more for a PA.

Having used Peavey cabs most of my life ( 2 series - the TX and the TVX - tried to obtain a PVH series cab but I believe Peavey is out of the cab business now) , I've only recently tried an Eden cab and was impressed enough to ditch the Peavey cabs and been on the hunt for an Eden cab collection. As you have probably read, it's been an experience. Really, considering, it has been manageable if you don't mind doing a bit of work. Not everyone's cup of tea but the work it required was just basic "average joe" stuff.

 

[old_thumper]

Wasn’t that the corona rig? I seem to remember Vinny using 2 210 xst with a 405?

What's Vinny rig? Or a Corona rig? Anyone got pics?

I know there are these massive "Holy Sh*t!" rigs owned by Armin. Lol...now that's a rig...either the "Wall of D112XLTs" rig or that " to die for" Rocco Prestia P810XST monster cab.

Then there's Dan's cool stuff, like the Eden EX112 or those DNA cabs. More my speed.

Actually, every rig posted is pretty cool. Too bad I missed most of it from the old Eden forum.

 

[old_thumper]

I don’t have information on the cabinet, just commenting on the claimed power handling so you don’t damage perfectly good speakers from inaccurate information.

I'm curious what you think the Delta 10Bs can be run at, power wise. I'm not looking to blow them up, fer sure. I do try to watch cone motion on the cab since certain pedals can weird up your EQ and have massive gain where you don't expect it ( an MXR M82 Auto Wah for instance ). I'd be interested in your advice on what to take into account when running a bass rig so as not to smoke off an amp or damage a driver.

 

[agedhorse]

The Delta 10’s under low frequency applications and reasonable box tuning becomes mechanically limited at about 150 watts RMS (give or take).

 

[firebass6]

What's Vinny rig? Or a Corona rig? Anyone got pics?

I know there are these massive "Holy Sh*t!" rigs owned by Armin. Lol...now that's a rig...either the "Wall of D112XLTs" rig or that " to die for" Rocco Prestia P810XST monster cab.

Then there's Dan's cool stuff, like the Eden EX112 or those DNA cabs. More my speed.

Actually, every rig posted is pretty cool. Too bad I missed most of it from the old Eden forum.

 

[firebass6]

If I remember correctly the corona rig was a D112 sitting on top of a 210 XST when I saw Vinny play alive he was using 2 210 xst cabs stacked vertically with a 405 amp on top of them

 

[old_thumper]

The Delta 10’s under low frequency applications and reasonable box tuning becomes mechanically limited at about 150 watts RMS (give or take).

The Eminence website lists the Program Power of the Delta 10B @ 700W and then there is another rating just called Watts that is 350W. What is this 2nd rating if it's not RMS watts? As a general rule do I take the Eminence watts rating and divide them by 2 to get a meaningful RMS watts rating?

Am I safe running an Eden D210XLT cab with 2 Delta 10Bs ( in parallel for 8 ohm impedance ) @ 300W max?

 

[Rip Van Dan]

I've never had the chance to play through a GK anything ( head or cab ) and haven't really got hear anyone who had them. They don't show up very often in places like Guitar Center. I've looked into the GK heads but get confused by the set ups on some GK amps ( like a popular one that has 2 channels but it's not stereo and has as weird power split for the highs and the lows - I guess really meant for a specific GK cab ). Are GKs more like an Ampeg? Are they the "Mesa Boogie" of bass amps?

I'd agree with the " no baked in sound " thing for Eden amps and actually run the my WT800 flat. I might tweak the the Navigator preamp a bit because the power section is a Crown XLS 1500 and curved more for a PA.

Having used Peavey cabs most of my life ( 2 series - the TX and the TVX - tried to obtain a PVH series cab but I believe Peavey is out of the cab business now) , I've only recently tried an Eden cab and was impressed enough to ditch the Peavey cabs and been on the hunt for an Eden cab collection. As you have probably read, it's been an experience. Really, considering, it has been manageable if you don't mind doing a bit of work. Not everyone's cup of tea but the work it required was just basic "average joe" stuff.

I've had a couple of GK amps. The first one I had was a guitar amp that they made back in the 80's. My brother in law had it and it died. He said I could have it and it probably wouldn't be much to fix it. So I had if fixed and it cost me about $40 backs in the 90's. I actually used it as the head running two JBL 112 with all the way across horn speakers for a few gigs.

My son had used those JBL's for his DJ'ing until he got some more speakers and then he offered to let me use them. That was actually a really good amp and my bass through those JBL's just thumped. I put one over closer to our guitar player so he could easily hear me and he said, "Man your bass cab is kicking my butt! Why don't you move it back over by the other one." GK made a number of guitar speakers and a killer, tiny, 210 combo for guitars too (1985 or so).

I also got a GK Backline 250 amp (125-watts rms) in about 2006 and that was the most worthless piece of amp I ever used. GK usually, or at least used to, name their amps by the peak power they could produce. TI totally expected great things, and it was terrible. It was sold with a GK115bpx cab as the GK Brat Pack. It had a minimum ohms load or 8 ohms, so you couldn't add a second speaker cab to it...may as well have been a crap combo.

And to compound that problem, the 115 cab is very boomy and muddy. Their preamp is confusing to me as you can't really get any volume out of it clean and you must add their boost channel, which of course adds distortion. I'm sure others have figured out a good way to make it work, but my experience was terrible. I never could get the right mix of clean and boost to make it sound good at any level high enough for gigging. So I also ran an XLR to the board when I gigged it.

Back in about 1985 GK came out with their 800RB amp, which could put out a total of 400-watts rms. It could put out 300-watts into the "low" output and 100-watts into the "high" output. That was specifically done to facilitate "bi-amping" cabs. More specifically, it would send the lows to a bass cab and the highs to one of those huge horns we used to use in the 70's and 80's and you'd see on top of the "voice of the Theater" systems at your upscale Movie Theaters. There were just not a lot of full frequency cabs out then and this was a way to get good bottom end and sparkling highs - lots of definition and punch. It filled a niche back then. And then full-frequency cabs became the norm instead of the exception...

You still see bi-amping in PA and FOH systems but it's pretty much a waste of a cab in modern bass cabs. Modern bass cabs have built it tweeters and are full frequency cabs. If you use one "full frequency cab" for just the highs, all you're using is the tweeter from that cab and they woofer does nothing. And of course on the cab that your using for the lows, you're not using the tweeter. By using one cab for the lows and one cab for the highs, you're using 2 perfectly good, full frequency cabs, to produce the sound you could get out of just one of those full-frequency cabs by itself. Now days, with the quality of full-frequency cabs, bi-amping bass cabs is in most cases just a waste of money.

 

[agedhorse]

The Eminence website lists the Program Power of the Delta 10B @ 700W and then there is another rating just called Watts that is 350W. What is this 2nd rating if it's not RMS watts? As a general rule do I take the Eminence watts rating and divide them by 2 to get a meaningful RMS watts rating?

Am I safe running an Eden D210XLT cab with 2 Delta 10Bs ( in parallel for 8 ohm impedance ) @ 300W max?

Program power is a number that has no meaning for bass guitar applications IMO, it's simply derived from 2x the THERMAL power (specified in RMS metrics).

The 350 watt rating is THERMAL, and it's a "must survive" 2 hour test with a maximum specified mechanical damage (defined by TS parameter shift). When this spec is changed to a 200 hour test, the numerical rating generally falls by between 25% and 40%. IMO, 2 hours is not a practically realistic number if long term reliability is desired.

I am talking about MECHANICAL power handling, this is more of a long term reliability metric for the suspension components operating within the specific enclosure. Usually, and this depends on the suspension design, it's accepted that the speaker not exceed Xmax by more than say 10%-20%, within the Xmax value being the linear portion of the drivers mechanical (and electro-mechanical) operation.

I looked at the power handling that is recommended by Eminence and it's even lower than I remembered... for a typical bass application WITH a steep 60Hz HPF, the driver is limited to 50 watts RMS mechanically, I might push this to 75 watts RMS with a 20% exceeding Xmax factor, but this clearly illustrates the challenges with this driver in particular, and the concept of mechanical power limitations in general. It also highlights why the nominal power values that so many folks (including many non-engineering based designers) assume is true isn't necessarily true in practice for this type of application.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] (first cabinet example)

From discussions like this on TB, it's why I now rate speakers (published claims of power handling) I design based on MECHANICAL limits from 50Hz - 5kHz as this represents the bandwidth that most closely describes how the cabinets are used for BASS GUITAR applications. Of course this can be seen as a marketing disadvantage, but in the end it's a more truthful (in terms of meaningful details), or more accurate representation of what the speaker is capable of handling over a long (say 10, 20 or 30 year) service life.

This is a complicated issue, customers want a simple, single number answer to a much more complex mechanism. I hope this helps players understand WHY the numbers are not useful without knowing more about what the numbers mean and how they apply to their specific applications.