Fake Nordstrand bass

[Iridescentone]

That is true and I stated it.
But it is the people that want something for nothing that drives the market.

Well, every human being on planet Earth wants something for nothing. That's human nature and will never change.

The flip side... is that the thieves who make counterfeit items actually "create" the market in the first place. That's where the blame lies. Horse before the carriage.

 

[ole Jason]

You're speculating, of course. However, if that is true then it's just one more reason not to buy a Chinese Cort, Squier, Ibanez, etc.

(not that I need yet another reason)

It is well established that it is common for legitimate factories to produce counterfeit products after hours. Very common in tech hardware. Obviously we can't pinpoint which specific factory is spitting out the Alibaba guitars. Also, at least some of those brands you mentioned are likely made in the same factory.

 

[hdracer]

Well, every human being on planet Earth wants something for nothing. That's human nature and will never change.

The flip side... is that the thieves who make counterfeit items actually "create" the market in the first place. That's where the blame lies. Horse before the carriage.

Wrong.
Myself and plenty of other people are more than willing to pay for quality products.
It is the greedy that want a Ric and don't care how they get it.
Not a month goes by around here without a thread about how someone asks about that site. They want a Ric but don't want to pay for it.
Where is the greed? I see it on both ends.

 

[David Jayne]

I couldn't help but notice that the price of $384.12 is for five units or more per order. Gee, I wonder who the target market is?

 

[Iridescentone]

I suppose before any of us climb on our high horses, it's worth reminding ourselves that as a nation, we have handed our manufacturing heritage to China in exchange for being able to shop cheaply at Walmart. The guitar copying is a little more blatant than all the other intellectual and copyright property they ripped off from us, but we won't act to stop it because they prop up our bloated national debt. Maybe we can return the favor when they start innovating instead of copying, just wonder if there will be any US manufacturing left by the time that happens.

Have to disagree. We as a "nation" are not responsible for having been sold down the river. There are "people in charge" (avoiding the "G" word here) whose job is/was to prevent these type of catastrophes. They've failed us as a "nation" miserably. They're still backstabbing us and ought to be thrown in prison for their crimes.

 

[Hopkins]

Really? Am I the one being Naive?

Counterfeit would imply that they were trying to sell these as authentic when the ad says "The items are MADE IN CHINA. They are not the original ones that some of you guys are seeking for, but they are with good quality and WELL worth the money you pay. In the rare instance of a defective item, please be sure to contact us first and let’s figure out a good way to solve it."

I've owned a good number of Fender clones and have no issues with these companies. That being said in many cases every feature of them is identical (in looks) to a Fender except the logo and shape of the bottom of the head stock. These companies are using the looks and design (Fenders reputation) to the fullest extent allowed by law. If the law allowed it they'd use the Fender headstock shape and Logo; call it a Fender Jazz bass and in small letters it would say (made by XYZ).

So tell me which "P & J" bass clones haven't in some way cashed in on Fender's reputation?

So yes these basses on Ali Express may not comply with our laws but I just don't see it as a horrific crime.

This of course being limited to a knock off of a Nordy Fender clone.

Again, the Fender clones are not placing a Fender logo on the headstock. That disclaimer means absolutely nothing when many people buying these are doing so for the sole reason of trying to pass them off as the real thing. I would be be pissed off if my brand stated making some headway in the guitar market, only to find some Chinese counterfeiter trying to sell a cheap knockoff with my logo on the headstock for peanuts. And you are dead wrong about if it were legal that the guys making Fender clones would use the Fender logo if it were legal. Nobody in there right mind would make a top of the line P or Jazz bass to standards that far exceed that of Fender, and give Fender credit for building it. Yes you are being very naive.

 

[Hopkins]

I couldn't help but notice that the price of $384.12 is for five units or more per order. Gee, I wonder who the target market is?

I wonder if its the same guy who is listing these on Ebay and craigslist for 5 times that amount, selling it as the real deal.

 

[Iridescentone]

Wrong.
Myself and plenty of other people are more than willing to pay for quality products.
It is the greedy that want a Ric and don't care how they get it.
Not a month goes by around here without a thread about how someone asks about that site. They want a Ric but don't want to pay for it.
Where is the greed? I see it on both ends.

Everyone wants something for nothing, but not everyone is willing to admit it. Not everyone wants a Ric or a Lambo, but everyone wants "something" they can't have.

Ever buy a Lottery ticket?

 

[hdracer]

Everyone wants something for nothing, but not everyone is willing to admit it. Not everyone wants a Ric or a Lambo, but everyone wants "something" they can't have.

Ever buy a Lottery ticket?

No, and I have lived my life not wanting something for nothing.
Yes, there are a lot of things I would like to have but can not afford them. Somethings I will never be able to afford, some I will continue to work hard and save for.
I get great satisfaction from getting something I worked and saved for.

 

[Hopkins]

Everyone wants something for nothing, but not everyone is willing to admit it. Not everyone wants a Ric or a Lambo, but everyone wants "something" they can't have.

Ever buy a Lottery ticket?

I want a lot of things that I can't afford, but I am not going to go buy a cheap counterfeit just because I can afford it. Wanting something you can't afford is not the same as wanting something for nothing.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

Have to disagree. We as a "nation" are not responsible for having been sold down the river. There are "people in charge" (avoiding the "G" word here) whose job is/was to prevent these type of catastrophes. They've failed us as a "nation" miserably. They're still backstabbing us and ought to be thrown in prison for their crimes.

Who among us has not bought Chinese products because they are cheap? I'm guilty as hell, and so are we all. And we are totally to blame because we voted generations of wingnuts, Democrat and Republican, into office. Both parties got us into this coddling F'd up situation with China, now neither can get us out. I accept my little piece of the blame as a voter. You can't fault China for ruthlessly exploiting our spendthrift stupidity and lack of nerve to call them on piracy. They make this stuff because we buy it, they rip us off because we can't afford our debt without them underwriting it.

 

[peterpalmieri]

Again, the Fender clones are not placing a Fender logo on the headstock. That disclaimer means absolutely nothing when many people buying these are doing so for the sole reason of trying to pass them off as the real thing. I would be be pissed off if my brand stated making some headway in the guitar market, only to find some Chinese counterfeiter trying to sell a cheap knockoff with my logo on the headstock for peanuts. And you are dead wrong about if it were legal that the guys making Fender clones would use the Fender logo if it were legal. Nobody in there right mind would make a top of the line P or Jazz bass to standards that far exceed that of Fender, and give Fender credit for building it. Yes you are being very naive.

Ok so I guess we disagree. Yes it is illegal, yes it is wrong, but a head stock logo does not make a bass (except in the eyes of the law). And I don't want to single anyone company out but why does their "J style or vintage style bass" have to have 4 clover leaf tuners across the top, a pickguard, chrome control plate, single coils in "60s or 70s" location. Why do these instruments labelled 60s come in Alder/rosewood and the 70s models in ash/maple. Why is the split coil pickup in the P sweet spot? How many companies are there doing this?

The answer is because all of these companies are copying a Fender, legally you call it a clone or illegally you call it counterfeit, either way that is what's being done. Doing it to make it better doesn't justify it more than doing it to make it cheaper. I'm not defending Fender or criticizing the clones. And I don't condone anyone who would pass these off as legit.

The Nordy VJ5 (VINTAGE JAZZ) chinese copy rides on Nordy's reputation just as the Nordy rides on the Fender jazz bass.

 

[BigBadRyals]

What about the guy who doesn't give a rip about build quality (to a degree) or name on the headstock that thinks the instrument looks cool, or wants, say a Ric, to try out *xyz* mod on, and would feel much more comfortable doing it on a $300 bass vs. a $2000 bass. I'm not condoning blatant name ripoffs at all (i find them abhorrent) and I'm not looking to start a war at all, i think there's a special place somewhere for these shysters. Just playing devil's advocate out of honest curiosity.

 

[Hopkins]

Who among us has not bought Chinese products because they are cheap? I'm guilty as hell, and so are we all. And we are totally to blame because we voted generations of wingnuts, Democrat and Republican, into office. Both parties got us into this coddling F'd up situation with China, now neither can get us out. I accept my little piece of the blame as a voter. You can't fault China for ruthlessly exploiting our spendthrift stupidity and lack of nerve to call them on piracy. They make this stuff because we buy it, they rip us off because we can't afford our debt without them underwriting it.

Counterfeits and MIC name brands are two different things.

 

[Hopkins]

Ok so I guess we disagree. Yes it is illegal, yes it is wrong, but a head stock logo does not make a bass (except in the eyes of the law). And I don't want to single anyone company out but why does their "J style or vintage style bass" have to have 4 clover leaf tuners across the top, a pickguard, chrome control plate, single coils in "60s or 70s" location. Why do these instruments labelled 60s come in Alder/rosewood and the 70s models in ash/maple. Why is the split coil pickup in the P sweet spot? How many companies are there doing this?

The answer is because all of these companies are copying a Fender, legally you call it a clone or illegally you call it counterfeit, either way that is what's being done. Doing it to make it better doesn't justify it more than doing it to make it cheaper. I'm not defending Fender or criticizing the clones. And I don't condone anyone who would pass these off as legit.

The Nordy VJ5 (VINTAGE JAZZ) chinese copy rides on Nordy's reputation just as the Nordy rides on the Fender jazz bass.

If you dont see a major difference then something is wrong with you.

 

[sevdog]

Don't blame the company making the knockoffs, they are just supplying a product to low life poser scum that want and buy their crap.

There's an interesting book called Factory Man, based on the Bassetts of Bassett Furniture, on the shelves right now that's tells a pretty interestting and enlightening story about China and a concerted effort to "dump" products on the global market with the direct intent of putting other countries out of business (manufacturing that is) for the long term prosperity of China.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

Counterfeits and MIC name brands are two different things.

So why are they allowed to continue making counterfeits? What has our government done to prevent the Chinese government turning a blind eye to this piracy, other than randomly opening some containers at major ports? Most of the stuff coming in overland from Canada get's no look at all. Many high Chinese officials own stakes or outright ownership in factories producing the fakes. My point is, we take no meaningful punitive action against them because they are effectively our bankers. Fender and Gibson are not blameless in this, they have outsourced a large part of their production to Asia for the same reason other American companies do it. It's highly profitable to exploit cheap labor and lack of regulation overseas. Interesting article here:
http://www.businessinsider.com/most-counterfeit-goods-are-from-china-2013-6

 

[Hopkins]

So why are they allowed to continue making counterfeits? What has our government done to prevent the Chinese government turning a blind eye to this piracy, other than randomly opening some containers at major ports? Most of the stuff coming in overland from Canada get's no look at all. Many high Chinese officials own stakes or outright ownership in factories producing the fakes. My point is, we take no meaningful punitive action against them because they are effectively our bankers. Fender and Gibson are not blameless in this, they have outsourced a large part of their production to Asia for the same reason other American companies do it. It's highly profitable to exploit cheap labor and lack of regulation overseas. Interesting article here:
http://www.businessinsider.com/most-counterfeit-goods-are-from-china-2013-6

I cant answer that question, but I would assume it would be a logistical nightmare to check every imported item. The only way I know of to stop it for sure would be to stop all trade with China

 

[nostatic]

Well, every human being on planet Earth wants something for nothing. That's human nature and will never change.

Having a moral compass is all about avoiding activities that are wrong.

The flip side... is that the thieves who make counterfeit items actually "create" the market in the first place. That's where the blame lies. Horse before the carriage.

The builder and the buyer are both complicit in a crime. Without one the other doesn't exist. It is a partnership in behaving badly. The builder is stealing the reputation of others, and the buyer is fostering that theft. Everyone has their own rules to live by and live with the choices. Forgeries - explicit or implicit - just say no. Ymmv

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

If you dont see a major difference then something is wrong with you.

So if this Chinese bass in question was to change the headstock shape and logo it is no longer a counterfeit but merely another jazz bass clone? Then it would be perfectly acceptable, correct?