fEARful™ Part Eleven (11)

[tombowlus]

I never tire of those pics Tom. Spam? More like an e-mail from an old dear friend.

 

[BurningSkies]

Sorry everyone, turns out my day job keeps me from talking about bass cabs on occasion.

There are a couple things to consider here. First off, the overall tone profile of the different sizes of fEARful 2 and 3 way variants are the same. So, if you're deciding between a 15/6/(1) or a 12/6/(1) you're just guestimating where your volume needs really are. The 15's giving you more volume per the sensitivity graph posted above.

If you're considering whether the sub is a beneficial move over a second cab with mid/tweeter, there are a few considerations. First off, a SINGLE 18 Sound (I can never remember those damn numbers and letters) 6" speaker is loud enough to keep up with TWO 3015LFs. Thus the padding on the single cabs, which attenuates the driver by roughly 3db. When running both of mine, I switch the padding off and run it full out. It keeps up fine. It keeps up so fine that I flip my 15/6 so its not blasting in my ear all night. Otherwise I roll off the mids and that effects my tone out in the room.

The thing that I can't attest to is how the tweeter will react to your needs. I'm guessing that most of the guys who are running the tweeters aren't running them full out? Probably about half way at most? Which would tell me that one tweeter should be enough to provide what you need.

On the modularity factor, yes, the 12/6 is smaller and lighter than the 15/6. It gives you a few additional options to your setup, are you going to use the 15, the 12 or both. Of course, if you really want gross volume, you can't beat the dual 15's rig. My 15/sub is shorter but wider front to back. Is that going to be a concern for transportation? Its also a fair amount lighter than the 15/6...you should see the boys in the band volunteering to grab IT rather than the 15/6.

My perception is that with the 15/sub+15/6 setup I go lower than with the 15/6 alone. It just feels that way to me.

 

[esa372]

That said - you can't go wrong with a 1515/66+1 with a BMS horn, high power xover parts and more amp than you'll ever need - if it'll fit in your vehicle.

Thanks for the info, Foz.

I would *really* like something like Plstrns cabs:

...but there's no way i could get even one of those into my car; that's why I'm looking at a smaller, more modular rig.

Note that Burning Skies has his 15/6 upside down to keep the mid lower than in direct earshot.

Really? This is upside-down?

If you want it balanced then build two 15/6 cabs instead of one without. Depends on your own tonal desires which are highly personal and subjective.

OK, so...

15/6/1 + 15sub
15/6/1 + 15/6
15/6/1 + 15/6/1
15/6/1 + 12/6/1

How on earth does one choose the second cab without hearing them?

I assume the "+ 15sub" rig would have more thunder;
the "+ 15/6" rig would have more thunder and punch;
the "+ 15/6/1" rig would have more thunder, punch, and zing;
the "+ 12/6/1" rig would have similar sound to, but more versatility than, the "+ 15/6/1"

...am I on the right track here?

They're based on tongue in cheek pokes at the MI amplification industry (first one) and driver specs and modeling (second one).

 

[BurningSkies]

Whelp, that's a nice glamour shot, but I tend to run them like this most of the time these days:

Invalid Link Removed

 

[Sundogue]

My perception is that with the 15/sub+15/6 setup I go lower than with the 15/6 alone. It just feels that way to me.

As it should. If you look at the graph above for the 1515/66, you can see how much higher in decibels the low end is. Your rig is essentially a 1515/6.

 

[BurningSkies]

Thanks for the info, Foz.

I would *really* like something like Plstrns cabs:

...but there's no way i could get even one of those into my car; that's why I'm looking at a smaller, more modular rig.


Really? This is upside-down?

OK, so...

15/6/1 + 15sub
15/6/1 + 15/6
15/6/1 + 15/6/1
15/6/1 + 12/6/1

How on earth does one choose the second cab without hearing them?

I assume the "+ 15sub" rig would have more thunder;
the "+ 15/6" rig would have more thunder and punch;
the "+ 15/6/1" rig would have more thunder, punch, and zing;
the "+ 12/6/1" rig would have similar sound to, but more versatility than, the "+ 15/6/1"

...am I on the right track here?

Eh. Using terms like 'more thunder and punch' are very 'old cab design' kind of descriptions. I think that for the most part, your two cabs can stay balanced tonally no matter which options you're choosing.

 

[BurningSkies]

As it should. If you look at the graph above for the 1515/66, you can see how much higher in decibels the low end is. Your rig is essentially a 1515/6.

Yep. True.

I also have the extended port shelves working for me as well.

 

[esa372]

Sorry everyone, turns out my day job keeps me from talking about bass cabs on occasion.

Blasted day jobs!

The 15's giving you more volume per the sensitivity graph posted above.

That's one of the reasons I need new cabs in the first place - need more volume.

...a SINGLE 18 Sound (I can never remember those damn numbers and letters) 6" speaker is loud enough to keep up with TWO 3015LFs. Thus the padding on the single cabs, which attenuates the driver by roughly 3db. When running both of mine, I switch the padding off and run it full out. It keeps up fine. It keeps up so fine that I flip my 15/6 so its not blasting in my ear all night.

Now I understand what Sundogue meant!
Is the switch to turn off the mid driver attenuation part of the fEARful design, or is it something you put in on your own?

one tweeter should be enough to provide what you need.

That's what I was thinking when I started considering the 15sub.

...if you really want gross volume, you can't beat the dual 15's rig.

Yes, please!

My 15/sub is shorter but wider front to back. Is that going to be a concern for transportation?

Thanks for pointing that out. I'll check the measurements.

Thanks, BurningSkies!

 

[Passinwind]

The thing that I can't attest to is how the tweeter will react to your needs. I'm guessing that most of the guys who are running the tweeters aren't running them full out? Probably about half way at most? Which would tell me that one tweeter should be enough to provide what you need.

If you use the BMS tweeter you will still need to turn it way down to be in balance to two 15s.

 

[::::BASSIST::::]

esa372:

I'll chime in here. Perhaps think of it this way... if you need obscene volume or huge low-end go for the 15/6/1 + 15(?) setup. If you dont need to be THAT loud or THAT low go for the 15/6/1 + 12/6/1 for the simple reason that it will be easier to move and as you mentioned you have space limitations in your car.

My .02

 

[esa372]

Eh. Using terms like 'more thunder and punch' are very 'old cab design' kind of descriptions. I think that for the most part, your two cabs can stay balanced tonally no matter which options you're choosing.

Thanks! ...and apologies for the old-timey descriptors... just trying to get a handle on all this without actually hearing the cabs.

Which brings up a question:
Do any of you fEARful users have any sound clips available?

 

[Sundogue]

OK, so...

15/6/1 + 15sub
15/6/1 + 15/6
15/6/1 + 15/6/1
15/6/1 + 12/6/1

How on earth does one choose the second cab without hearing them?

I assume the "+ 15sub" rig would have more thunder;
the "+ 15/6" rig would have more thunder and punch;
the "+ 15/6/1" rig would have more thunder, punch, and zing;
the "+ 12/6/1" rig would have similar sound to, but more versatility than, the "+ 15/6/1"

...am I on the right track here?

Yes, you are on the right track. That would sum it pretty well.

Only you can really weigh the advantages/disadvantages of what each offers.

How much modularity do you need? Would you always bring the same rig to each and every gig? How much weight do you want to deal with? How loud do you need to be? Etc.

I play mostly with a very loud classic rock cover band. The 15/6 is all I need. I haven't played outdoors with it yet, so I don't know if I need another cab. If I do I might consider the 15 Sub.

But...I also play in a rather quiet blues band (as compared to my rock band) and it would be really cool to only have to bring the smaller/lighter 12/6. If I built a 12/6 Cube, then I could use it for that gig AND I can put it on my 15/6 for outdoor rock gigs.

Actually, if you are pretty sure you want a 15/6/1 (add the horn because you've stated many times you think you might want it, so add it), then build (or have built) a 15/6/1 first.

Play through it. Get to know it's capabilities first hand. Since you already know you want to try a 15/6/1 THAT will help you better decide on the second cab. You may find you don't even need a second cab.

At this point I certainly don't need another fEARful cab. But if I were to, I now have a reference point for what I'd build.

 

[Sundogue]

Thanks! ...and apologies for the old-timey descriptors... just trying to get a handle on all this without actually hearing the cabs.

Which brings up a question:
Do any of you fEARful users have any sound clips available?

I have no way or time to record a decent clip, but here's my feelings on sound clips...

Because both, the recording and playback, is through various devices you have no real reference point.

Secondly, the fEARful design is meant to sound the way you want it to. It is not a very colored (if much at all) cab. It will faithfully reproduce what you put into it. One could dial in a vintage kind of tone with no brightness and you might hate the clip. Someone else may dial in a real modern slap tone, and you might hate it. What do you want it to sound like? It will pretty much do that, depending on your amphead/preamp/effects EQ'ing ability.

Thirdly, where fEARfuls really excel is in off axis response on a gig where everyone can clearly hear your bass, not just you. A soundclip is kind of pointless in that regard.

One can make a lot of cabs sound good in a sound clip. Cabs of my own design still sound fabulous to me. And they sounded great with my band. But the output of the fEARful blows away my old cabs. It also sounds better off axis on gigs than my old cabs. A sound clip would be of little use to compare.

 

[cableguy]

I really like my 12/6. I use it now for a small blues gig and practice. The blues band does play an outdoor show or two during the summer so I'm adding a 12/sub. My 1st love is harder rock and I know down the road I will be doing that as well so the 12/sub will come in handy with the volume needed for those shows. But carrying in a 38lb 12/6 to use 95% of the time is awesome. I have used it in a medium volume rock setting as well. Now if I can just shed some weight off my amp.

 

[Passinwind]

Which brings up a question:
Do any of you fEARful users have any sound clips available?

Yes, mine are in the Wiki on the Passinwind crossover page. Personally, I wish everyone would post lots of clips. I like to hear actual music, and of course live is best, but recordings are cool too IMHO. Those who think they have no value are free to not listen to 'em.

Edit: there's a dead link in the Wiki. Here's my Link Removed cut with my old 12/6.

 

[Sundogue]

Yes, mine are in the Wiki on the Passinwind crossover page. Personally, I wish everyone would post lots of clips. I like to hear actual music, and of course live is best, but recordings are cool too IMHO. Those who think they have no value are free to not listen to 'em.

It's just my personal take on soundclips. Just too many variables involved to really ascertain real world info on tone and/or output capabilities.

Since I rarely listen to me playing in a band setting through my laptop and headphones, a soundclip doesn't really tell me much. And I have pretty much the same tone through my 15/6 fEARful that I had through at least the last five years of various other custom cab builds.

If I would have recorded them all, I doubt even I would know which cab was which.

I wouldn't say they are of no value, but I think one needs to understand the context with which soundclips are both recorded and listened to. And yet, I still listen to them.

 

[Passinwind]

It's just my personal take on soundclips. Just too many variables involved to really ascertain real world info on tone and/or output capabilities.

Don't care, want to hear people playing music, or even just making noise. This is a music oriented forum after all.

 

[esa372]

...build (or have built) a 15/6/1 first.

Play through it. Get to know it's capabilities first hand. Since you already know you want to try a 15/6/1 THAT will help you better decide on the second cab. You may find you don't even need a second cab.

An excellent idea.

...here's my feelings on sound clips..

Thanks - I can appreciate that.

Though, I am going to check out Passinwind's clips.
(What an odd thing to say...)



@tombowlus
I see that the specs on the fEARful page show that the 12/6cube is 1/4" wider than the 15/6 (20.75" vs 20.5"), but I don't see any "overlap" in your photos. Is it a typo on the fEARful page? Did you change the build at all? What am I missing here?

I'll chime in here.

Thanks! I really appreciate the input!

 

[esa372]

Here's my Link Removed cut with my old 12/6.

That's some groovy clip, Passinwind!

 

[rpsands]

My suggestion to any new fEarful person pretty much is "Build a 12/6/1 cube" -- but nowadays with the driver costs, I would suggest anyone start with a 15/6/1 and do the 12/6/1 cube if you are happy with the 15 and want more portability.