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fEARLESS F210

#222
Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I'm hoping some of you guys can help me. I recently decided to step up my cab game from the Aguilar GS112s I had been using. Got a deal from Alphaman on a Jhawk built Okume F210 and a David Homer built F115 so I snagged them both.

Actually, some of you guys probably were the original owners of these.

I had been using an Aguilar TH500, but I also picked up a Mesa Subway D-800 so I could give a bit more power to the 115. That said, I never really learned much about cabs and amps so this has been a great learning experience for me.

Except:

I farted out the f210, badly, a few times. I had no idea what was happening, I recreated it a few times to try to determine whether the speakers were blown. Everything I'd read was that these cabs could handle all the power I could throw at them especially from little class D amps, so I figured "Let's crank them hard and see what they can do!" (I even played a few notes on the low B with the DEEP switch engaged at pretty loud volumes on the mesa :rollno: :banghead:). I know now that I was giving it too much power in the low end and the drivers were over excurs..ing(?). So that's the bad news. The good news is that they do not sound blown at more reasonable volumes.

So,

1) Run a HPF for the f210. Seems like most people recommend running an HPF at around 35hz anyway, or at least rolling off the lows. But I've also read that you need to filter anything below the port's tuning. I can't find that spec anywhere. What frequency should I be filtering to get the most out of this cab?

2) Have I damaged the drivers even though they aren't blown? Super paranoid right now that my ignorance ruined a great cab. Again, it still sounds amazing at moderate volumes and louder volumes with the low frequencies rolled down.

3) What frequency should I be running an HPF for the F115? I've also been reading (now that I'm aware of HPF) that it's a good idea to hard pass at 80-100hz in a live FOH mix to make room for the kick drum. Should I just always run an 80hz HPF? It's just bass going through the amp, so I figured it could go lower since it doesn't need to make room for anything else, but then I thought "well it's still in the same room as the PA, so does it make sense for it to go deep?" The mesa cuts 30hz, and I could just start setting the bass knob at 10 or 11 on both the TH500 and D-800 as a rule, but wondering if an F-deck at 80 is a better fail safe.

4) Both cabs have switches and dials. I had assumed the switch was an on/off for the tweeter, but reading through this thread it seems like it's a mid frequency selector. Does anyone know where I can find more information about the crossover settings and what specifically the switch does? I've checked all the builders' websites and none of them list wattages, tuning frequencies, or information about the attenuators/switches/crossovers.

Overall, I really like both of these cabs, but learning more about how to use them I'm sure will make me confident in both of them. I think I'll be using the f115 more often just for the volume, but man that f210 sounds harmonically rich and has a really sweet voice. I'm just terribly paranoid about pushing it now without an HPF.


TL;DR: I don't know what to tell ya. This post is all over the place. Sorry bout that. I really appreciate the advice.
 
#225
Yeah - you're right, it could be gain structure / exceeding amp capacity- but in most circumstances I would expect the average user could tell the difference between amp "crap out" and speaker "fart out".

No way for me to know from here so I guess the gold standard applies - try alternative amp / cables / bass - look for bad cables need for a new battery in the bass [if its got one]... et cetera.

Nonetheless it sounds like a classic vibration/mechanically induced failure of an electrical connection = could be - just my bet in the office pool - YMMV
 
#226
Thanks guys. I don't know the difference between the terms "fart out" and "crap out" but I'd assume that a bad connection would crackle and pop and the speaker would cut in and out. This basically looked like the speakers were reaching maximum excursion. They were leaping violently back and forth at what I can only assume to be the fundamental frequency of the low C, Db, D. I've read that playing below the tuned frequency of the ported cab can do something to the effect of reducing speaker resistance to near infinity, that's what it seemed like. I've tried everything else the same on the F115 and 2 GS112s and all my other cables and components work fine.
 
#227
Is the port blocked [displaced damping material]?

Clearly audible crackle might not result with a bad passive xover connection because there is still a circuit at all times - just a dodgy one that interacts variably = things like what you describe can happen in that instance - erratic behavior during high vibration with "crackle" masked by cab output. This scenario has come up in more than one GB DIY cab build thread when initial crank up was working at modest levels but doing odd things at high volumes = found a loose crimp or touched up all the solder joins and problem goes away.

Not saying that I know what's wrong - but bad connections would be one of the first things I looked at once I got past bass/cable/amp trouble shooting and started looking at the cab for the source of the problem. [which I gather is where you are at].
 
#228
If i can muster the cajones, I'll pop the back of it off tonight to have a peep see. SOMEONE PLEASE STOP ME BEFORE I DO THAT IF THAT IS A BAD IDEA. I suppose some packing material could've gotten lodged up inside there during shipping, but on cursory inspection that didn't appear to be the case. I can look for obvious solder joint problems too. Of course I've only ever seen the back of crossoverless, open-back speaker cabs with clip on cables, so I'm not sure I'll know what I'm looking at.
 
#229
Might want to exhaust all other possibles [get a different bass/amp/cables - shine a flashlight in the ports and look around] and get some help from someone who has done some speaker building before cracking the cab then - FWIW I would consider that task trivial but sounds like its scary for you - if you get that far pulling a woofer as well as the back plate is usually the best way to get a look at all the wires including the xover.

Maybe ship it / run it out to popgadget and let him give it a once over for you? He is an expert builder of the species and could provide the definitive analysis.

Bottomline I would expect that cab to have no problems making very loud low B - and speaker "fart out" from a 800w amp would lead me to think something is wrong [and could well be the amp as speculated above].

Good Luck!
 
#230
@dtsamples,.. my F115 was sounding like it was blown at rehearsal one night and the singer started freaking-out. he mistakenly turned my amp stage gain too far below that of the preamp causing distortion. he started lamenting about possibly being responsible for blowning the Subwoofer, but after a quick look i was back to normal conditions, lol.
 
#232
You have answered all of your own questions.

dtsamples said:
I farted out the f210, badly, a few times. I had no idea what was happening, I recreated it a few times to try to determine whether the speakers were blown. Everything I'd read was that these cabs could handle all the power I could throw at them especially from little class D amps, so I figured "Let's crank them hard and see what they can do!" (I even played a few notes on the low B with the DEEP switch engaged at pretty loud volumes on the mesa :rollno: :banghead:). I know now that I was giving it too much power in the low end and the drivers were over excurs..ing(?). So that's the bad news. The good news is that they do not sound blown at more reasonable volumes.
Click to expand...

I wouldnt expect any cab to like being hit with sub harmonics at a hefty amount. Dont use extreme EQ setting.

dtsamples said:
Run a HPF for the f210. Seems like most people recommend running an HPF at around 35hz anyway, or at least rolling off the lows. But I've also read that you need to filter anything below the port's tuning. I can't find that spec anywhere. What frequency should I be filtering to get the most out of this cab?
Click to expand...
Turn it up until you hear it working, then turn it back down just a touch.
 
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#234
Be a big boy and consider you might be in over your head - take it to the man and get the birds eye low down on the caper maybe come away with some new insights and methods. Worth a 90 drive IMO especially if you just get up early and show up around the time you was gonna be up anyway - think of it as a fishing trip?

YMMV

Have fun storming the castle!
 
#235
Foz said:
Be a big boy and consider you might be in over your head - take it to the man and get the birds eye low down on the caper
Click to expand...

Yep, in the grand scheme of things the Antelope Freeway exit's not that far from Wilmington, and if you lived there you'd be home by now.
 
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#237
Thank you, @popgadget. I'm almost 100% certain after spending the last few days researching that I just had way too much power down low. Tomorrow I'll be able to check it at a relatively high volume with a HPF. If that doesn't solve the issue at a reasonable cutoff frequency, I will certainly be sending you a PM. Heck, I might schedule the trip anyway.

I will say that at a moderate volume with the bass rolled off to about 10 o'clock on the TH500, this is the most pleasant sounding cab I've ever heard. I have a gig tomorrow night with the cover band for which I'll be bringing the F115 and Mesa just for volume's sake, but man is the F210 so much sweeter to listen to.
 
#238
dtsamples said:
Thank you, @popgadget...

I will say that at a moderate volume with the bass rolled off to about 10 o'clock on the TH500, this is the most pleasant sounding cab I've ever heard. I have a gig tomorrow night with the cover band for which I'll be bringing the F115 and Mesa just for volume's sake, but man is the F210 so much sweeter to listen to.
Click to expand...
That's really weird!
At any level that is reasonable for the F210, if the switches are set the same (well, actually not sure if the F210 has switches, seems like the F115 does - if not, disregard the switch references), the overall tone should be ~almost~ identical, except for just a bit more low end extension/heft.
 
#239
Maybe the subtle low end extension mixed with the upgraded (supposedly louder) tweeter in the F210 just makes it sound more full range. That said, I have also been comparing the F210+TH500 to the F115+D-800. So maybe it's a combination of factors. I haven't had TOO TOO much time to try different combinations of things cause I work during the day and my 2yo goes to bed at 7. Shouldn't have upgraded so many variables at once, but had the opportunity so just going to take some time experimenting. The good news is it's taking me way out of my comfort zone and forcing me to learn. The bad news is there's going to be mistakes along the way. Doesn't seem like I've damaged the cab, but I probably will drive both up to Scabbey Road to have popgadget reassure me it's user error.
 

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