Fender Rumble Club

[Deleted member 268085]

Hi owning a Rumble 800 cabinet playing a Rickenbacker 4001 over it.
Will add a speaker combo. Shall I buy a 15 inch or a 2x 10 inch?
Living in the Netherlands
Grtz Erik

If you spend most/all of your playing time in the first position, the 15" works great. If you spend time playing the skinny strings close to the body, the 10" works better IMO. The 115 cab does have a tweeter (like my 200 combo had), but my issue was a lack of crispness at the higher frequencies due to the inertia that needs to be overcome with the bigger, heavier magnet of the 15" vs. 10". I've since settled on 12" speakers (GR Bass AT Cube combo and cab). They handle both extremes well for me. My Studio 40 has the 10" speaker plus the tweeter and works great for practice and small rooms.

As others have mentioned, the Rumble cabs are very good, and either would serve you well in most playing situations.

 

[Akiyama]

On the one hand, size indeed matters. On the other hand, he was mic'ing just the speakers, not the cabinets. Two cabinets with identical speakers but different sizes, dimensions, and sealed/port characteristics can sound radically different. It would be interesting to have that done as well.

I am not sure I understand your statement that, "he was just mic'ing speakers, not the cabinets". All three videos I have linked to have the speakers in their cabinets. It is my understanding that a speaker in a cabinet will influenced by the cabinet it is in, even if close mic-ed. My second video of Philip's work demonstrates how the bass player would hear the speaker cabinet and how mid to back of house (audience) would hear the cabinet. I could hear notable differences in each case, even with the limitations of YT.

I am sure a designer could design a speaker/cab that upends the generalizations. But, the two biggest names in bass amps/cabs do follow the typical generalization that is bandied about. At least within these two combo/cabinet lines.

edit: my purpose for posting the videos is so Rumblers can make better informed decisions about speaker size when choosing their Rumble combo/cabinet. My gripe: And when will Fender make their 12 inch Rumble cabinet available?

 

[dORSY]

My gripe: And when will Fender make their 12 inch Rumble cabinet available?

Guess market did not want'em enuff :/
And I guess that is why I got 2 r100s now.

 

[Miles_ONeal]

I am not sure I understand your statement that, "he was just mic'ing speakers, not the cabinets". All three videos I have linked to have the speakers in their cabinets. It is my understanding that a speaker in a cabinet will influenced by the cabinet it is in, even if close mic-ed. My second video of Philip's work demonstrates how the bass player would hear the speaker cabinet and how mid to back of house (audience) would hear the cabinet. I could hear notable differences in each case, even with the limitations of YT.

The 1st video (I should have noted that’s all I listened to due to being pressed for time) does show differences in how the various sizes sound. I was just trying to make sure people realize that’s not exactly what they will hear in the real world. Stick your ear next to the speaker and play. Then back off a few feet so you hear the effect of the whole cabinet. That’s without getting into mic placement, an art/science in itself.

It’s a useful video. Thanks for posting it.

I am sure a designer could design a speaker/cab that upends the generalizations. But, the two biggest names in bass amps/cabs do follow the typical generalization that is bandied about. At least within these two combo/cabinet lines.

edit: my purpose for posting the videos is so Rumblers can make better informed decisions about speaker size when choosing their Rumble combo/cabinet. My gripe: And when will Fender make their 12 inch Rumble cabinet available?

The 12” cabs used to be available. I don’t know if they weren’t selling enough or what, but Fender discontinued them. You can still find one on the used market now & then.

 

[Akiyama]

Guess market did not want'em enuff :/
And I guess that is why I got 2 r100s now.

I was thinking a Rumble head and the 12 Rumble cab might have been a pathway for me. Maybe I will go with two R100s down the road.

The 1st video (I should have noted that’s all I listened to due to being pressed for time) does show differences in how the various sizes sound. I was just trying to make sure people realize that’s not exactly what they will hear in the real world. Stick your ear next to the speaker and play. Then back off a few feet so you hear the effect of the whole cabinet. That’s without getting into mic placement, an art/science in itself.

It’s a useful video. Thanks for posting it.

The 12” cabs used to be available. I don’t know if they weren’t selling enough or what, but Fender discontinued them. You can still find one on the used market now & then.

I understand you now. Yep, you are right. I have been playing around with IRs within my DAW. You can do some cool stuff and learn "theoretical" applications of mics and placement. Heck if I could afford all the equipment. lol

I am contemplating doing some gigging. I am planning ahead how to address potential venues, as I would likely be doing some venues outside. Going from the venues I used to play back in the day, there is no way a single Rumble 100 unit would be sufficient to handle things. I also go by the philosophy I gained in my guitar days that if you are always running your master volume past 50%, you need more of the same rig or a bigger rig. I could go Rumble 100 plus DI to FOH I guess. I was toying around with getting a Rumble 200 but I am not keen on using the compression horn. I don't know why but tweeters kinda irritate me in bass amps. Plus, the Rumble 200 has a bit more bass "bloom" than the 100 but that is also a virtue at times. I play multiple instruments and a wee budget so I need to make smart and sure choices for each instrument. Decisions. Decisions.

Thanks for the reply and explaining your post.

 

[KenB]

I think the r100 has a more bottom ended sound to begin with, sometimes I got to drasticly use the bass EQ knob to tame them (even below 9o'clock). There is nothing wrong with using the EQ.
A lowpass filter or any EQ would also work.

Boom "lives" somewhere in the 50-120Hz range, that's where You can "fix" it.

Not to mention it matters a LOT where You stand in the room (freqs "building up" or "cancel out" in that exact spot).

Some rooms (specially cube/square-like in shape) are usually hard to work with.

That was the solution I used. Just turned the BASS control down to 9:00.

I had initially settled on setting the R100 to all EQ at noon, and no presets. Sounded great to me at "sound check" while wandering around the patio listening to the mix. The first "set" sounded great to me, but I never listened to the sound back INSIDE the bar through the triple doors.

After our 1st set there was an "open mic" set, with various folks "doing their thing". My bass (JMJ Mustang with flats) was used for several tunes, while I was inside listening. That's when I heard the "boominess" that bothered me. The other bass player (a good player, well versed in EQ and setup) apparently was not bothered by the boominess while playing.
Part of the problem was the "sound system" and amplified acoustic guitar. The guitars and mics were all plugged into a single channel Bose L1 Pro8 unit, through a small mixer. Definitely NOT the best sound, lots of boominess from the guitar. No one cared, 'cause lots of beer and good bourbon, but it bothered ME! Not my circus or monkeys, of course, so Bass control down to 9:00!


As I said in my OP, this party was my first use of the R100 at an actual gig. The boominess I heard triggered memories of previous TalkBass threads about other's concerns about boomy overtones from the R100, and various damping mods to the cabinet to mitigate the problem.

I have been impressed by the audible difference in the apparent damping of the R200 cab vs the R100.
There is no way that simply adding a 1-1/2" sheet of Poly-fil on the back panel could make the R100 as well-damped as the R200.
Especially since I don't hear much difference in the "tone" when thumping on the back with my other hand (or even a folded towel) pressed onto the outside of the back panel.

There must be a sturdy vertical brace of some sort glued to the bottom and back panels of the R200.

 

[G-Dog]

... ... ... My gripe: And when will Fender make their 12 inch Rumble cabinet available?

Guess market did not want'em enuff :/
And I guess that is why I got 2 r100s now.

... ... ... The [Rumble] 12” cabs used to be available. I don’t know if they weren’t selling enough or what, but Fender discontinued them. You can still find one on the used market now & then.

I'm confident it was the (relative) lack of sales that caused the discontinuance of the Rumble 112 cab. Which was possibly due to its seemingly small size and relatively low power handling at just 250 watts, though that's enough to pair with a Rumble 500 combo, but way too low to go with the newer Rumble 800s putting out 400 watts that were coming out then.

Anyway, many of us ol' timey Rumblers have been lobbying here for a lightweight, high-power 7ender Rumble 212 cab for over 7 years now, alas, to no avail. - couple of Rumble wish list items -

 

[Miles_ONeal]

I was thinking a Rumble head and the 12 Rumble cab might have been a pathway for me. Maybe I will go with two R100s down the road.

I generally use two daisy-chained R100s, too. Occasionally just one. The rare time I've needed more I've used the DI to FOH. If I start needing more just occasionally, I'll likely rent if nothing is provided. More than that, I'll get excited and spend some money.

I understand you now. Yep, you are right. I have been playing around with IRs within my DAW. You can do some cool stuff and learn "theoretical" applications of mics and placement. Heck if I could afford all the equipment. lol

Years ago I took a recording studio course back in Atlanta. I didn't learn nearly enough about mic placement but it was a good start. I've learned more from trial and error as a sound guy and musician.

I am contemplating doing some gigging. I am planning ahead how to address potential venues, as I would likely be doing some venues outside. Going from the venues I used to play back in the day, there is no way a single Rumble 100 unit would be sufficient to handle things. I also go by the philosophy I gained in my guitar days that if you are always running your master volume past 50%, you need more of the same rig or a bigger rig. I could go Rumble 100 plus DI to FOH I guess. I was toying around with getting a Rumble 200 but I am not keen on using the compression horn. I don't know why but tweeters kinda irritate me in bass amps. Plus, the Rumble 200 has a bit more bass "bloom" than the 100 but that is also a virtue at times. I play multiple instruments and a wee budget so I need to make smart and sure choices for each instrument. Decisions. Decisions.

Wise approach!

Thanks for the reply and explaining your post.

Of course. I apologize for not being more clear the first time. I let myself be hurried too much sometimes. Thanks for your insights!

 

[Miles_ONeal]

That was the solution I used. Just turned the BASS control down to 9:00.

I had initially settled on setting the R100 to all EQ at noon, and no presets. Sounded great to me at "sound check" while wandering around the patio listening to the mix. The first "set" sounded great to me, but I never listened to the sound back INSIDE the bar through the triple doors.

After our 1st set there was an "open mic" set, with various folks "doing their thing". My bass (JMJ Mustang with flats) was used for several tunes, while I was inside listening. That's when I heard the "boominess" that bothered me. The other bass player (a good player, well versed in EQ and setup) apparently was not bothered by the boominess while playing.
Part of the problem was the "sound system" and amplified acoustic guitar. The guitars and mics were all plugged into a single channel Bose L1 Pro8 unit, through a small mixer. Definitely NOT the best sound, lots of boominess from the guitar. No one cared, 'cause lots of beer and good bourbon, but it bothered ME! Not my circus or monkeys, of course, so Bass control down to 9:00!


As I said in my OP, this party was my first use of the R100 at an actual gig. The boominess I heard triggered memories of previous TalkBass threads about other's concerns about boomy overtones from the R100, and various damping mods to the cabinet to mitigate the problem.

I have been impressed by the audible difference in the apparent damping of the R200 cab vs the R100.
There is no way that simply adding a 1-1/2" sheet of Poly-fil on the back panel could make the R100 as well-damped as the R200.
Especially since I don't hear much difference in the "tone" when thumping on the back with my other hand (or even a folded towel) pressed onto the outside of the back panel.

There must be a sturdy vertical brace of some sort glued to the bottom and back panels of the R200.

I don't recall details, but am reasonably certain someone here has said that the Rumbles > 100w are better braced internally.
I haven't gotten around to adding dampening in the cab yet, but a sock in one port is a good start.

 

[KenB]

I just found a thread (started in April 2016 by eric_B) that shows nice internal pics of both the R500 and R200!

The internal pics of both cabs are on page 6 of the thread:

Fender Rumble V3 mod: separating amp and speaker

Both cabinets have the 1-1/2" thick white Poly batting on the back panel only, but there is also some bracing.

The R500 has a single brace, a roughly 2" X 1/2" piece of plywood glued between the front baffle and back panel.
It's installed perpendicular to the panels and "twisted" at a 45 degree angle.

The R200 has no brace between the front baffle and back, but the pic DOES show the vertical "tunnel" of white batting.
No brace can be seen, but I'm now convinced there is a vertical wooden brace glued to the bottom and to the back of the R200 cab.

Interesting!

 

[dORSY]

Found the post/pic of my orig. r100's dampening. A bit thicker material than the new's black one, so I used less there.

Post in thread 'Fender Rumble Club'

Oct 18, 2019

my way of lining the r100c

• dORSY

• 

 

[Never2Late]

I've found lots of info, and pictures of, the internal construction of the R100 (that Wiki again...), but I've not been able to find ANY good info (on the TalkBass forums and others) about the construction of the R200 cab.

The R200 seems to be built of the same lightweight plywood, but I would like to know the details of its "insides".

There is the expected damping material. It's a white Poly-fil type batting, about 1-1/2" thick, covering and attached to the back only. Top, back and sides bare wood, sealed at the joints like in the pics I've seen of the R100. No obvious bracing, but see below...

I was surprised to see that the batting covering the back is NOT just simply a flat piece.
The batting is folded into a large, vertical, central tube or "tunnel", about 5" in diameter, extending from the bottom surface towards the top. It looks sorta like this (a quick and dirty sketch of the amp viewed from the bottom, as if looking "through" it towards the top):

View attachment 7280340

I can't get a better look into the cab through the ports with a mirror, but I'm wondering what, if anything, is inside that tunnel of batting!

The batting is glued to the back, and to the bottom where it's in contact with the wood. I don't want to tear it loose just to solve the mystery!

So, is there a vertical brace in there from top to bottom, or is the tunnel supposed to serve as a sort of sound baffle?
My inquiring mind wants to know!

Anyway, my question is, does anyone know more about how the R200 cabinet is constructed? I don't think I see anything in mine that would explain why the R200 seems so much more solid and damped than the R100! Unless there's one heck of a brace in that tunnel!

Kenny, I'm surprised to hear that only one of the six internal sides of your 200 has the acoustic damping material on it. I thought I'd read that at least 2 sides had it. Hmm! And I don't have any idea what the "tunnel" is about, unless the installer just cut too wide a piece. Anyhow, I doubt it makes any significant sonic difference than if it didn't have a "tunnel".

And you should know that the 200 cab is the exact same dimensions as the R500 combo which, as I'm sure you know, can pump out 350 hard-thumpin' watts by itself. So, for economy of manufacturing, I'm sure both the 200 & 500 cabs are built to the same sturdiness with just different baffle boards. Therefore, yes, the 200's cab needs to be super strong just in case it gets used for a 500 instead!

That's my theorized answer to your questions, until any empirical evidence proves me wrong.

The "tunnel" is definitely sized and shaped the way it is for some purpose. It isn't just a large wrinkle!

It is symmetrical in shape from the bottom to where it appears to end at a bare wooden side-to-side cross-bar near the top. Like a tube or tunnel. I can't really see up there with my mirror.

It's also glued to the wood bottom, or to some surface inside the tunnel, in a way that helps it to keep that shape.

I poked it a few times with the mirror, and it doesn't seem to be empty. Not just loose batting. Something's inside.

Now I'm fantasizing that maybe it's hiding some sort of sophisticated high-tech tube-shaped "wave trap"...

@KenB - I recently disassembled my R500. It has factory batting only on the lower back, under the built-in plywood box for the amplifier that's at the upper back.

The R500 has a plywood brace running from the center of the baffle, between the two 10" drivers, to the back of the cabinet. The brace is about 3" wide and the same thickness as the baffle.

Since the R200 has a 15" driver centered on the baffle, that same brace location isn't possible. It sounds like Fender added a vertical brace to the back of the R200, from the bottom up to the built-in amplifier box, to add rigidity.

 

[Miles_ONeal]

... I was toying around with getting a Rumble 200 but I am not keen on using the compression horn. I don't know why but tweeters kinda irritate me in bass amps. ...

As I understand it, Rumbles with tweeters also have on/off switches for said tweeter. A number of people don't use the tweeter. I think @GonePlaid only uses the tweeter when playing recorded music through his R200 during set breaks. (Rumbles actually work great for a number of things besides bass. I've loaned one of mine for a keyboard amp and we've used it for a podium PA with a mic.)

 

[John Stephen]

... (Rumbles actually work great for a number of things besides bass. I've loaned one of mine for a keyboard amp and we've used it for a podium PA with a mic.)

I use my Rumble 40 for my electric guitar, too. Very, very nice guitar amp. Especially if you don't want any ice-pick treble tones on your guitar.

 

[Akiyama]

As I understand it, Rumbles with tweeters also have on/off switches for said tweeter. A number of people don't use the tweeter. I think @GonePlaid only uses the tweeter when playing recorded music through his R200 during set breaks. (Rumbles actually work great for a number of things besides bass. I've loaned one of mine for a keyboard amp and we've used it for a podium PA with a mic.)

But if the tweeter is switched off, how dark is the R200? I need to head down to GC and try a R200 out again. Thanks again, Miles!

I was playing my R100 earlier at a volume louder than my usual to see how it operates under pressure, i.e., above 50% (12 o'clock) on the master. I usually have the master at 8:30 or 9. The R100 would go silent like I hit a limit that then muted the unit. I looked through the wiki but I did not see anything/articles about this type of behavior. Anybody have thoughts/advice? Thanks

 

[G-Dog]

July 26, 2023: I picked up a Rumble 100 today. The 500 was too big and beyond what I could justify spending at this time. I am testing the 100c out at home.

Initial impressions: In my very small and cluttered studio, the Rumble 100 has a stronger fundamental and more "rumble" than my RB-110 but lacks detail in the the 500-2kHz range compared to the RB-110. It is almost shocking, the difference. The RB-110 allows a Jazz bass to be a baritone Strat and a Jazz bass. The Rumble says "nah, a Jazz bass is just a helluva Jazz bass". There is virtue in both approaches. The Rumble, with all tone controls at 12 o'clock, has much more brightness than the RB-110 but the RB-110 is in no ways "dark". The 100c, with all tone controls at 12 o'clock and no tone shaping, is quite U-shaped with its FR response. When I use a pick, I have to admit, the Rumble is really annoying. I will need to sort out how to tame that trait as I use a pick 80% of the time due to finger/hand orthopedic issues and my talent with a pick as a guitarist. The RB-110 says, "bring on the pick!" and Rock On!

I am leaning hard toward keeping the 100c. I am an Ampeg fan but appreciate the Rumble tones as a second strong sonic choice. I am, tentatively, a Rumble Club member.

... ... ... I was playing my R100 earlier at a volume louder than my usual to see how it operates under pressure, i.e., above 50% (12 o'clock) on the master. I usually have the master at 8:30 or 9. The R100 would go silent like I hit a limit that then muted the unit. I looked through the wiki but I did not see anything/articles about this type of behavior. Anybody have thoughts/advice? Thanks

Aki, you have just a very few days to file a warranty claim on your R100 purchase! It shouldn't be doing that!

 

[Akiyama]

Aki you just a very few days to file a warranty claim on your R100 purchase! It shouldn't be doing that!

Thanks! Will do.

 

[Akiyama]

I need to travel over an hour to a Fender-approved repair facility. I will drop off my Rumble 100 later this week but within the warranty time limits.

I am a bit anxious as Fender did not do squat for me when my Mustang III went completely belly up just a few weeks past warranty. Fender said, effectively, "Out of warranty. It sucks to be you." I don't want a repeat of that. That is two out of two solid state Fender amps for me that have gone south right around the end of the warranty period. Right now, that does not give me much confidence in the long-term reliability of Fender's solid state/digital amps. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me". Hopefully, Fender and the repair shop pull through and provide me customer satisfaction and renews my confidence in Fender's amps/customer policies. Fingers crossed

 

[John Stephen]

Good luck wit it, @Akiyama . I hope it works out well.

 

[Akiyama]

Good luck wit it, @Akiyama . I hope it works out well.

Thanks! The Rumble community is #1!