Fender Rumble Club

[Miles_ONeal]

I need to travel over an hour to a Fender-approved repair facility. I will drop off my Rumble 100 later this week but within the warranty time limits.

I am a bit anxious as Fender did not do squat for me when my Mustang III went completely belly up just a few weeks past warranty. Fender said, effectively, "Out of warranty. It sucks to be you." I don't want a repeat of that. That is two out of two solid state Fender amps for me that have gone south right around the end of the warranty period. Right now, that does not give me much confidence in the long-term reliability of Fender's solid state/digital amps. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me". Hopefully, Fender and the repair shop pull through and provide me customer satisfaction and renews my confidence in Fender's amps/customer policies. Fingers crossed

Best of luck! When I bought an amp directly from fender (big sale) it developed a problem a few months later. I recorded the noises it was making and sent that in; they shipped me a new amp. The new one and my original (bought used several years ago) have done great. I don't hear of too many problems so hopefully this is your last issue with them!

 

[MadJack]

Fender has been funny about their designs and their warranty work. From much of what I've seen them do, they design failure or obsolesce into their amps. I've seen it with their digital modeling amps, as the sales decline and they develop new systems, support for the old is dropped once warranty period on the last one expires.

Seeing what they do with their amps, most notably the '64 Reissues and '68 Customs, they use some of the worst filter caps in the power supplies. Illinois Capacitor makes some good reliable capacitors, but the model used in these amps are IC's cheapest models and typically don't last very long compared to models that are pennies more. Often these caps don't even last the full warranty period. You would think they would use the better caps on an amp that costs $1100+. This level of amp isn't built to a price point so low as to cheap out on poor quality components.

 

[Never2Late]

But if the tweeter is switched off, how dark is the R200?

When I had my R500 disassembled I tested the horn tweeter by itself, outside of the cabinet. I got almost no sound out of it finger-plucking some of the highest notes the bass, which had new bright roundwounds.

The horn tweeter came alive when I popped the G and D strings, with that very high, metallic percussive frequency.

So I would describe the horn tweeter as an optional metallic percussive addition for popping. I'm going to guess it might also add some high-highs when using a pick on the highest notes.

I mostly finger-pluck and don't slap/pop (yet), and I don't hear any difference in sound when playing with the tweeter switched on or off, so I leave it off right now. The R500 is definitely not dark without the horn tweeter (IMO).

I'm assuming that the R200 is the same.

 

[Never2Late]

I need to head down to GC and try a R200 out again.

If you're considering the R200 and going to GC, I would highly recommend also playing the R500. They're very close in weight and cost, and identical in size. And the 2 amps don't sound at all like I initially expected.

Every time I've played the R200 and R500 side by side, I've personally preferred the sound of the R500. To my ears, the R500 surprisingly has more authority down low, where the R200 has more of a hollow-sounding midrange that I need to EQ out for the sound I'm looking for. We're all different, of course, and some folks here hear them differently and prefer the R200.

July 26, 2023: I picked up a Rumble 100 today. The 500 was too big and beyond what I could justify spending at this time.

With me only playing at home, I also couldn't justify the R500 in any way. But I bought one regardless because I just love the way it sounds.

 

[toughluck]

When I had my R500 disassembled I tested the horn tweeter by itself, outside of the cabinet. I got almost no sound out of it finger-plucking some of the highest notes the bass, which had new bright roundwounds.

The horn tweeter came alive when I popped the G and D strings, with that very high, metallic percussive frequency.

So I would describe the horn tweeter as an optional metallic percussive addition for popping. I'm going to guess it might also add some high-highs when using a pick on the highest notes.

I mostly finger-pluck and don't slap/pop (yet), and I don't hear any difference in sound when playing with the tweeter switched on or off, so I leave it off right now. The R500 is definitely not dark without the horn tweeter (IMO).

I'm assuming that the R200 is the same.

The highest note on a 24-fret 4-string bass is 392 Hz. That's definitely way below a typical crossover frequency, I'd say at about 3 kHz.

4th order harmonic of that highest note is 1568 Hz. It's likely still below that frequency.

 

[G-Dog]

If you're considering the R200 and going to GC, I would highly recommend also playing the R500. They're very close in weight and cost, and identical in size. And the 2 amps don't sound at all like I initially expected.

Every time I've played the R200 and R500 side by side, I've personally preferred the sound of the R500. To my ears, the R500 surprisingly has more authority down low, where the R200 has more of a hollow-sounding midrange that I need to EQ out for the sound I'm looking for. We're all different, of course, and some folks here hear them differently and prefer the R200.
... ... ...
With me only playing at home, I also couldn't justify the R500 in any way. But I bought one regardless because I just love the way it sounds.

I agree 100%, Never! I've previously told how surprised I was at the tone of my R500c 11 years ago, having been a 15" snob before that. I haven't ever heard a R200c IRL, but I had a Bassman 250 that put that full force into its 15" Eminence speaker, and the R500c topped it for tone/punch/feel IMO!!

 

[Miles_ONeal]

The highest note on a 24-fret 4-string bass is 392 Hz. That's definitely way below a typical crossover frequency, I'd say at about 3 kHz.

4th order harmonic of that highest note is 1568 Hz. It's likely still below that frequency.

Yeah, 2KHz is more or less the low end of tweeter crossover freqs. That said, there is still content you can hear in higher harmonics (albeit nowhere near as loud as the lower freqs). Here's a graph:

Post in thread 'Frequency Spectrum of the Bass Guitar'

Apr 10, 2021

It's been a long time since the last post but I think knowing the power spectrum as well as the woofer frequency response might help get a feel for choosing a high pass filter frequency for a HF driver/horn which will match the woofer roll off and provide adequate protection for the HF driver. I recall coming across an old post with a rule of thumb which said a HPF at 3.5kHz could see up to 15% of a bass cabs rated power while a HPF at 5.0 kHz would only see about 5%. If this is reasonable then an 8-ohm cab rated at 400 watts might have peaks of up to 60 watts to an HF driver with a HPF at...

• 5StringPocket

• 

 

[KenB]

The highest note on a 24-fret 4-string bass is 392 Hz. That's definitely way below a typical crossover frequency, I'd say at about 3 kHz.

4th order harmonic of that highest note is 1568 Hz. It's likely still below that frequency.

The only “sound” that’s going to be heard from the tweeter is the highest frequencies. Very little of the basic “tone” (harmonic structure) of the notes you’re playing is in that range.

The tweeter is needed for the transients of fast, loud “noises”. Like the sharp, metallic “string-on-fret” sounds of slapped notes, fretting noise and “clank”, and pick attack.

The kinds of sounds you’ll hear from the tweeter will be most obvious when using fresh round wound strings and “aggressive” dynamic technique.

I use well-broken-in flats, finger style only, and the ONLY thing I can hear from the tweeter in my Rumble 200 is extraneous fret noise and the various hallmarks of my stellar technique. The kind of noise that always surprises me whenever I listen to “isolated bass” recordings of classic tunes on YooToob.
So I keep my tweeter switched off!

The only other reason you would need a tweeter is if you use any overdrive or distortion effects. The leading edge transients and prominent high harmonics generated by clipping and overdriven electronics would be seriously tamed without those frequencies!

 

[Gopherbassist]

Everything was sounding good, except my G string was sounding harsh and brittle. Twiddled knobs and ended up pretty near the "true flat" settings.

 

[John D Harris]

Everything was sounding good, except my G string was sounding harsh and brittle. Twiddled knobs and ended up pretty near the "true flat" settings.

Try sliding you plucking (or picking) just a bit farther away from the bridge.
I have been practicing doing this across all of my 5 strings - maybe an inch and a half from the 'B' string to the 'G'.

It makes the tone of each string sound more consistent.

I've had problems with 'G' strings (lol), for as long as I can remember, sounding too thin & zingy, but this actually helps me a lot.

 

[GonePlaid]

The only “sound” that’s going to be heard from the tweeter is the highest frequencies. Very little of the basic “tone” (harmonic structure) of the notes you’re playing is in that range.

The tweeter is needed for the transients of fast, loud “noises”. Like the sharp, metallic “string-on-fret” sounds of slapped notes, fretting noise and “clank”, and pick attack.

The kinds of sounds you’ll hear from the tweeter will be most obvious when using fresh round wound strings and “aggressive” dynamic technique.

I use well-broken-in flats, finger style only, and the ONLY thing I can hear from the tweeter in my Rumble 200 is extraneous fret noise and the various hallmarks of my stellar technique. The kind of noise that always surprises me whenever I listen to “isolated bass” recordings of classic tunes on YooToob.
So I keep my tweeter switched off!

The only other reason you would need a tweeter is if you use any overdrive or distortion effects. The leading edge transients and prominent high harmonics generated by clipping and overdriven electronics would be seriously tamed without those frequencies!

I noticed-on my 200c-that, as it says in the manual, "the tweeter may add some unwanted distortion". For me all distortion is unwanted. Thus, it stayed off except if I was playing break music CDs through the amp. Once I forgot to turn it off when we came back on. I thought my amp had taken a 'carp' 'til I realized my boo-boo. I don't play CDs through it anymore. CD player>to PA.

 

[John D Harris]

I noticed-on my 200c-that, as it says in the manual, "the tweeter may add some unwanted distortion". For me all distortion is unwanted. Thus, it stayed off except if I was playing break music CDs through the amp. Once I forgot to turn it off when we came back on. I thought my amp had taken a 'carp' 'til I realized my boo-boo. I don't play CDs through it anymore. CD player>to PA.

It seems really odd that CD's sound OK with the HF driver turned on, but your bass guitar does not sound good!?!

 

[GonePlaid]

It seems really odd that CD's sound OK with the HF driver turned on, but your bass guitar does not sound good!?!

CDs have highs; my bass playing doesn't.

 

[KenB]

It seems really odd that CD's sound OK with the HF driver turned on, but your bass guitar does not sound good!?!

When you play a CD you presumably want to hear the recorded music in all its original, carefully mastered (?) glory, sounding as faithful as possible to the original mix.

For that you want a "hi-fi" speaker, that can reproduce the full audible range of sound with little or no alteration or coloration of what's fed into it. You want to hear every tiny patter of stick on drum, every tiny ding and shimmer of the cymbals, every bit of the in-your-face roar of the metal guitar, and, of course every drop of spittle launched at the mic by that screaming singer! For that you need a tweeter!

Bass amps are designed to allow you to PRODUCE a specific tone and effect, to CREATE the low-end tone you want as a musician. You want the amp to produce just the sound you want, and minimize unwanted artifacts. Like using a HPF to reduce unwanted/unneeded low frequency rumble and thumps, and using drivers that emphesize low-range fullness but minimize unwanted high frequency mechanical playing noise (fretting noise and string squeaks).
Of course, if your playing style REQUIRES the inclusion of dynamic high frequency sound (like slap), then you'll need the tweeter.

Playing music through a bass amp & cabinet is basically like playing it through a really cheap hi-fi speaker with the tweeter disconnected. Basically just a bad "woofer". The music is never going to sound very good, but adding the tweeter at LEAST gives you back some of the upper frequencies that make music come alive, and makes instruments (other than bass) and vocals, sound real.

You'd usually want your bass rig to be just the OPPOSITE of hi-fi.
To see what I mean, plug your bass into the auxillary input of a decent stereo system. Or plug into a headphone amp. Might surprise you!
What you'll hear is probably NOT close to your idea of your ideal tone! And oh, all that extraneous playing NOISE!

But don't use the headphone output of your Rumble for this... There is a reason that the headphone output on your Rumble goes through a "cab sim" (cabinet simulation) module!

 

[Akiyama]

Thanks for all of your support!

I dropped off my R100 at the shop today for warranty work. I will need to wait until the tech tests it and advises from there. I have had an issue with the headphone out not working for months. I put that on the list of things needing warranty attention.

I tried out quite a number of amps today, just in case things don't work out well regarding my R100 warranty service. I can rule out the Ampeg RB-110 (not enough of anything but very nice mids), the Orange Crush 50 (not enough low end) and 100 (great warm tones but lacked high end and overall volume), the Boss Katanas (too fiddly and lacked a certain rawness that usually comes from a regular amp, very versatile though), a bunch of used amps from many brands, and the Rumble 500. The R500 is more "punchy" and "focused" for my tastes. I can see why some people would absolutely love it. I gotta have that controlled sub/low end bass "bloom" with also the ability to have some high end like the R100. Some people like "punch". I like "kick".

No R200 to try at this shop.

 

[John D Harris]

CDs have highs; my bass playing doesn't.

So - "I thought my amp had taken a 'carp' 'til I realized my boo-boo." - was hyperbole.

 

[John D Harris]

When you play a CD you presumably want to hear the recorded music in all its original, carefully mastered (?) glory, sounding as faithful as possible to the original mix.

For that you want a "hi-fi" speaker, that can reproduce the full audible range of sound with little or no alteration or coloration of what's fed into it. You want to hear every tiny patter of stick on drum, every tiny ding and shimmer of the cymbals, every bit of the in-your-face roar of the metal guitar, and, of course every drop of spittle launched at the mic by that screaming singer! For that you need a tweeter!

Bass amps are designed to allow you to PRODUCE a specific tone and effect, to CREATE the low-end tone you want as a musician. You want the amp to produce just the sound you want, and minimize unwanted artifacts. Like using a HPF to reduce unwanted/unneeded low frequency rumble and thumps, and using drivers that emphesize low-range fullness but minimize unwanted high frequency mechanical playing noise (fretting noise and string squeaks).
Of course, if your playing style REQUIRES the inclusion of dynamic high frequency sound (like slap), then you'll need the tweeter.

Playing music through a bass amp & cabinet is basically like playing it through a really cheap hi-fi speaker with the tweeter disconnected. Basically just a bad "woofer". The music is never going to sound very good, but adding the tweeter at LEAST gives you back some of the upper frequencies that make music come alive, and makes instruments (other than bass) and vocals, sound real.

You'd usually want your bass rig to be just the OPPOSITE of hi-fi.
To see what I mean, plug your bass into the auxillary input of a decent stereo system. Or plug into a headphone amp. Might surprise you!
What you'll hear is probably NOT close to your idea of your ideal tone! And oh, all that extraneous playing NOISE!

But don't use the headphone output of your Rumble for this... There is a reason that the headphone output on your Rumble goes through a "cab sim" (cabinet simulation) module!

DSFDF...

I want my bass amp to reproduce the sound of my bass guitar as accurately as possible and also have the EQ capabilities to modify that sound to fit into whatever genre I desire - obviously, R&B generally needs a certain sonic soundscaping that would be different from Metal or Bluegrass.

Clarity of tone also has the advantage when practicing of allowing the player to hear and then work on cleaning up their technique.

Everyone is free to seek an amp that meets their particular needs, but having an accurate amp with extensive EQ capabilities, essentially covers every bass / base - [probably more expensive? Yes.]

 

[Akiyama]

The “baked-in tone”/character vs. fidelity/neutrality conundrum. Cynically stated: colored/muddy vs brittle/sterile. Room for both camps and all the in-betweens in the music world. I mostly have a synergy/signal chain approach.

 

[Akiyama]

Update: the tech called me. Fender is sending the shop a new Rumble 100 for me as a replacement. The shop's tech and Fender's customer service coming through. I will see if it an 8 ohm version like I had or the 4 ohm version with the pre/post preamp DI.

 

[John Stephen]

Update: the tech called me. Fender is sending the shop a new Rumble 100 for me as a replacement. The shop's tech and Fender's customer service coming through. I will see if it an 8 ohm version like I had or the 4 ohm version with the pre/post preamp DI.

Nice! That's a good sign.