Fender Rumble Club

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by BumbleB, Mar 25, 2013.

  1. pinz


    Jun 14, 2010
    My Rumble 500 combo just continues to surprise me !
    Had a gig yesterday afternoon at a local bar,backing mainly vocal and guitar students tutored by my fellow band mates at a family concert.
    The venue is indoors,dark, like a long concrete bunker, and is just darn loud !
    Played many gigs there over 20 years and would always use the biggest rig I had at the time because you just had to.

    I boldly took the Rumble !
    Even with up to 4 guitars blazing away in some songs , being crammed into the back corner and having to stand beside my Rumble , which was perched on a chair , I was still happy with my stage sound.

    Better still a 14/15 year old lad with the skills of "Flea" playing a Fender Jazz (as I do) took the stage and he was an awesome player.
    This gave me a chance to listen to FOH, and was really happy with what I heard.
    I thought my DI and SVT sim sounded fantastic and was quick to point this fact out to my mate mixing on the desk...
    He then showed me, with a grin i might add, the Bass channel was muted and it was only the Rumble combo cranking on stage we could hear !!!! I still cant believe it !!!!

    just had to share :)
    lowplaces, s2bs2, Sub Freq and 5 others like this.
  2. JakobT


    Jan 9, 2014
    Oslo, Norway
    While waiting for my replacement Rumble 100 to be delivered, I've been roughing it with my old Ampeg BA-108, which sounds good, but is absurdly heavy. Well, last night it suddenly died on me, leaving me suddenly ampless. It's just a blown fuse, I think (though why it suddenly blew is anybody's guess), but I soon discovered that this specific type of fuse is hard to come by in my neck of the woods. That gave me just the excuse I needed - I ran straight out and got myself a brand new Rumble 40. Woot! I now have a very capable and light backup amp that sounds great (and WORKS), and as soon as I can get the fuse replaced in my Ampeg, it's going in the classifieds.

  3. Linnin


    Jul 19, 2012
    Linningrad, Earth
    Here's something interesting to add to our knowledge base.
    and this from Alex Claber designer and maker of Barefaced speaker cabinets

    Thanks to Bill Fitzmaurice (horn speaker guru) for mentioning this and getting me googling...

    The Allison Effect was named after Roy Allison who realised that room boundaries seriously affect bass reproduction, not only in terms of boundary reinforcement (generally good for us) but also boundary cancellation.

    "The best bass response is achieved by having the bass source either very close to or very far away from reflective surfaces. This generally means close to the rear and side walls and floor and far from the far wall and ceiling."

    Why is this?

    If you place your speaker 1/2 a wavelength away from a boundary then, at the frequency that corresponds to that wavelength, the sound will be reinforced significantly. We're talking the kind of boost you get from cranking a parametric EQ with Q narrow. If this particular frequency is a boomy/muddy one, it will not be fun. And if you're playing an acoustic instrument, feedback city...

    The flipside: If you place your speaker 1/4 wavelength away from a boundary, then at the frequency that corresponds to that wavelength (twice the previous frequency if the speaker hasn't moved) the sound will be cancelled significantly. A typical amount would be -15dB at the null frequency. Nasty. Truly tone sucking.

    The solution? Place your cab so it's less than 1/4 wavelength (of the upper bass range i.e. 100Hz) away from any boundaries OR more than 1/2 wavelength (of your lowest frequency) from any boundary.

    How does this relate to the real bass playing world? A 41Hz (low E) sound has a wavelength of 27.5 feet (I'm sorry, I'm still hanging onto the Imperial system). A 31Hz (low B) sound has a wavelength of 36.5 feet. So, fellow four stringers, you need to place your cab at least 13'9" away from any walls (fivers, 18'3"). So that's how to avoid peaky boundary reinforcement.

    To avoid notching boundary cancellation you need to be within 1/4 wavelength of a boundary in the range of 31 to 100 Hz. So really you need to get your cab within 2'10" of a boundary. Which part of the cab, you may ask? The bit that's making the sound, i.e. the bass speakers themselves and the ports. So given that most bass cabs are 14"-20" deep, you need to get the cab really close to the back wall, but not so close that the ports' operation (if rear-ported) is affected. Think 6"-12" away.

    So what's the best solution on the gig? Place your cab on the floor or on a short stand. Place it close to the rear wall. Place it close to one side wall. The far wall and the other side wall should be far enough away unless you're playing a boxroom. The ceiling will often be a pain, but one boundary causing nulls and peaks is a lot worse than all six getting in on the action.

    JCooper, Honch, pinz and 3 others like this.
  4. Scott Truesdell

    Scott Truesdell

    Sep 26, 2014
    Costa Mesa, CA
    This is very useful information!

    I was aware that reflective surfaces affected bass audio propagation, but never saw hard numbers attached to it. It looks like you could fine-tune your sound by moving the speakers just a few inches at a time until you zero in on that sweet spot.
    pinz and Linnin like this.
  5. Linnin


    Jul 19, 2012
    Linningrad, Earth
    I knew a little about it, but not enough. Does anybody really think about moving their combo or speaker cabinets around when EQing their rig to the room and mix? I like to stay about a foot away from any wall because it sounds better. Now I know why.
  6. Kinda reminds me of when I was big into home theaters.
    They say the best way to find where to put your subwoofer was to put it in your prime seating location, then crawl around the outside of the room on your hands and knees to find where it sounded best. That is where to put the subwoofer.

    Kinda sorta same idea, putting the speaker where it sounds best as opposed to where you "want" it to go.

    Ultimately, the best and final position was wherever the wife told me to put it that didn't "look stupid" in the room, lol.
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2015
    Joedog and eric_B like this.
  7. Scott Truesdell

    Scott Truesdell

    Sep 26, 2014
    Costa Mesa, CA
    My take-away from that Allison Effect post is if you are getting a notch or boom out of your rig at any given venue, try moving the speakers a couple of inches and see if it improves. Just like radio antennas, that is 100% free power. Compensate with EQ as a last resort.

    If you have a audio spectrum analyzer (you only need a cheap one; we're looking at relative values here, not absolute values. I've seen components for <$25) you could stick it near where you'd have a FOH console and have someone signal you when the graph goes flat as you jostle your rig around on stage. Hand signals: thumb down = notch -- move closer to wall; thumb up = spike -- move away from wall; hand flat = signal flat.

    It would take like 12 seconds. Job done!
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2015
  8. Scott Truesdell

    Scott Truesdell

    Sep 26, 2014
    Costa Mesa, CA
    These are the battles we fight...
    DerekW likes this.
  9. eric_B


    Apr 19, 2015
    The Netherlands
    I've read about (and experienced) this quite a while ago.
    What kept me wondering was this: (good) manufacturers take lots of efforts creating amps/combos/speakers which will reproduce the original source sound as natural as possible, doing research on frequency ranges, checking peaks, lows, etc. Or maybe they aim for another target and mold the sound to get a specific type of sound.

    So how does this translate when you push a speaker against a wall or in a corner to gain extra low?
    Does it destroy the intended sound just for the sake of some extra low freq DBs?
    Do you get equally low response on a certain frequency band? Or just some high peaks for certain frequencies?
    Or don't you care, as long as you get more low, it's OK?
    Just wondering...
  10. Linnin


    Jul 19, 2012
    Linningrad, Earth
    See, that's exactly what you don't want to do, Eric. You want to stay at least a foot away from any wall, and not shoved in a corner. So you would be at least at foot away from the back and side wall that forms the corner. If you get too much boost, you're just going to have to cut the bottom end.
    eric_B likes this.
  11. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    I completely disagree with this. I would always start with your bass rig hard into a corner wherever possible. If it's too boomy then move it but as soon as you pull the rig away from the wall you start causing uneven response from boundary reflections causing sharp notches in output.
  12. Linnin


    Jul 19, 2012
    Linningrad, Earth
    Alex this seems totally contradictory to your statement, or am I simply misreading and therefore misunderstanding.
    Perhaps you would be kind enough to clarify.
  13. MonTheNicol


    Apr 16, 2015
    Just recently got a Rumble v3 40w...What a awesome bit of kit. Sounds amazing with my Fender P ;)
    Bassa Nova, JakobT, GregT and 2 others like this.
  14. Linnin


    Jul 19, 2012
    Linningrad, Earth
    Welcome to the Fender Rumble Club, MonTheNicol :woot: You are member #505 :hyper:
    :cool: Rumble On! :cool:
    MonTheNicol likes this.
  15. MonTheNicol


    Apr 16, 2015
    Thank you kind sir. When I started out several years ago I had an older version of a Rumble 15. It broke, replaced it with an Ashdown but for me it never filled in that void. Happy to have a Rumble again.
    JakobT, GregT and Linnin like this.
  16. Scott Truesdell

    Scott Truesdell

    Sep 26, 2014
    Costa Mesa, CA
    I don't think it is...

    Having spent a few years mucking around with radio (ham and marine) I have a small but practical pool of experience with nulls, notches and gain. Waves is waves. What works with RF also works with audio waves, seismic waves (earthquakes), ocean waves, and even traffic on freeways and economic trends.

    This is also why moving mics just a few inches can sometimes solve a pesky feedback problem.

    Looks like 6 to 12 inches away is a good starting point.

    If we could see audio waves in the air, direct and reflected, and how they interact with each other, that would be awesome!
    JCooper likes this.
  17. Linnin


    Jul 19, 2012
    Linningrad, Earth
    I dropped some acid once (ingested LSD) and saw liquid colors coming out of my stereo speakers. It was pretty awesome. ;)
  18. Scott Truesdell

    Scott Truesdell

    Sep 26, 2014
    Costa Mesa, CA
    :laugh: But unless you can reproduce the phenomenon when needed, it's not a tool, it's a novelty! :laugh:

    Sometime I'll tell you about my experiences with the Grateful Dead's famous Wall of Sound...
    StrangerDanger likes this.
  19. Bassplayer315

    Bassplayer315 Supporting Member

    Apr 4, 2014
    New Jersey
    Picked up a MIM Fretless Jazz w/flats and have to say it sounds fantastic through my V3 100 combo with the vintage button down. Old school tone to the max.
    dbbltime, GregT and Linnin like this.
  20. MonTheNicol


    Apr 16, 2015
    The best setting on the amp IME ;)
    GregT likes this.
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