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Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by G-Dog, Jul 30, 2019.
Thanks Bro this is great.
Solude said: ↑
..."Thermal cycling will kill electronics faster than anything else. "...
Myth me thinks. From the energy star site ( and there are other authoritative references supporting this)
"Reality: Modern computers are designed to handle 40,000 on-off cycles before failure, and you're unlikely to approach that number, even if you keep your computer 5–7 years. Some studies indicate it would require on-off cycling every five minutes to harm a hard drive."
At least that's what THEY say. I turn my equipment off when not in use.
I sincerely hope it helps, mikie. Also see the link to the manual in the Rumble LT25 section of the Rumble Club Wiki page. On page 8 is a list of the amplifier models, and on page 13 it lists the Stompbox Effects, Modulation Effects, EQ and Delay/Reverb Effects, in case any of those are needed for your desired tone(s).
I did hear back from Fender Customer Service this morning in regards to the note I sent them about my Stage 800 cutting out. As suspected (and subsequently fixed) it appears that having wi-fi engaged will cause this fault.
From Fender e-mail:
“I would check to see if your WIFI and Bluetooth are on at the same time. The WIFI should only be engaged when updating the amp and if is consistently left on will try to ping to wireless routers causing the sound to drop and fade back in.“
In my case, it occurs even if only wi-fi engaged, regardless of whether Bluetooth is on or off. So just enable wi-fi for downloads only, per Fender, and all should work correctly.
Obviously, using wi-fi as the connection mode for the Fender Tone App (as discussed in the User’s Manual) should be disregarded. Tone App via Bluetooth appears to be the approved answer.
This issue is not annotated (wi-fi for downloads only, then disable) in the User’s Manual, but it appears it is a “known anomaly” at Fender.
Not sure if you want to add this information to the Wiki @G-Dog ?
Attention: Rumble Club Wiki Edit Alert!
Thanks, @ShawnG. A link to your post relating Fender's advice To Turn On Wi-Fi Only When Updating Firmware, Otherwise Leave Turned Off has been added to the Rumble Club Wiki page in the middle of the TONE App Support section. This is a very necessary instruction that needs to to be most explicitly stated to prevent amp cut outs! I have done this out of instinct and not had any cutting out problems. It's possibly due to my smartphone experience, losing battery charge constantly pinging away out in public where I don't want to connect to unknown networks.
Thank you again, Shawn, for sharing this very valuable information.
Thanks, man, for sharing your info. Sorry, you had to go through all that hassle, but now you may be saving someone else from the same grief. May you have trouble-free miles ahead!
I could swear I kept having those symptoms even after the wifi was turned off, or at least I thought it was. Thanks for sharing!
Mn mine was having trouble connecting to the app on my phone, I would have to reboot my phone to get it to connect. Turned the WiFi off and no more problems.
Check to make sure the amp ISN'T connected via bluetooth (like a set of bluetooth headphones). Once your device has been paired, it should connect only via the app. Bluetooth doesn't even have to be activated at that point.
I believe if you have the amp paired via bluetooth, it's trying to establish two bluetooth connections. Try turning BT off, open the app, connect to amp. Report back if that helps.
As previously discussed, this also helps the Tone app run better.
The phone/tablet should not be paired with the amp, only “aware” of it via BlueTooth.
I want to save a “Clean/Flat” setting for each amp model offered on the Stage 800. The idea is to have a “clean slate” setting for each model to work with, as the default settings for each of the pre-sets are pretty “all over the place” in regards to the virtual knob settings on each pre-set.
My plan is to set each amp model up with all of the tone-shaping controls at 12 o’clock, no pre- or post- effects. My question is (for those who have done something similar or just have an opinion to share) where to set the Gain & Volume? Also at 12:00 or maybe 9:00 (which would have been my default). All would obviously be modifiable via the actual knobs, but as a relative newbie who has been doing all of his playing via headphones during Covid, I don’t have a default Gain/Volume setting that is my go-to yet prior to plugging in a bass. Sorry if this is a silly question.
The purpose of all of this would be:
1. Allow me to learn how each of the amp models sound as if I had brought the “amp” the model is based on home from the music store and hooked it up to my 2x10 “cab.” As stated above, I am still pretty new to the bass and one of the things I like about the Stage 800 is that it allows me to “experience” these different “amps” and learn to appreciate the difference between the sound of a “tube amp” vs. a “solid-state” amp or an “Ampeg” vs. a “Rumble” without having to run around to lots of shops or spend a lot of money.
2. Serve as a starting point upon which to build further settings using pre & post effects/pedals, etc.
An eminently sensible idea for a bass newby, G-man! Then, comparing a flat/clean amp model to the preset model(s) would also inform you on EQ-ing and effects added. This could be very educational!
The challenge, as I see it, would actually be finding out just what the flat/clean settings would be for each amp model. As you've already anticipated, the gain setting for flat/clean would not be the same for all models! And, I humbly submit, that neither would the other control settings be the same for all models for "flat" sounds.
You say you would just set all the EQ controls to "noon" but, in fact, that will not actually create a "flat" sound on all amp models. For example, the Rumble amps are most usually agreed to have a "flat" sound when the bass, lo mid, hi mid & treble are set at 10, 2, 2, 10, respectively, as shown in the Rumble Settings For Flat Response linked in the Rumble Club TONE POOL section of the Rumble Club Wiki page. Other bass amps may also have different settings for flat tone. But, since we don't know the flat settings for other amps, perhaps all "noon" is as good a place to start as any.
As for the gain settings on different amps, you may just have to experiment with each one to get the best clean tone. I can already tell you that zero may be the cleanest for the Rumble amps, but that some others will not give any sound at all at zero gain. Go figure!
Good luck, Shawn. Please keep us updated, occasionally, on your flat/clean amps journey.
Thanks for the reply, G-Dog. My inexperience already fully on display based on fact that i thought a 12 o’clock setting was “the” starting place for a flat response. Understand based on your note above that each amp maker may “bake-in” a desired tone “flavor” and that setting all the dials at noon doesn’t equal “flat.” Ok, got it.
I guess starting with all models at “noon” while not getting me to a flat setting will then at least get me to an “equal” setting (at least based on what the modelers programmed) and that may be the best I can get as a starting place.
Much to learn, your info is much appreciated!
Why don’t ya list the main amp brands you want clean tones for unless it’s for everyone of them. There’s enough Fender models to keep you busy for weeks!
While I’m no expert, I’ll give you my take on a clean Ampeg. I’d run all tone flat (noon) and cut all boosts. For gain, the SVT likes main volume high (3:00) and then use your preamp knob to control your volume. This gives you great signal-to-noise ratio (less noise) and a really hot signal. It’s clean as long as you don’t go overboard.
You can go the opposite and run your gain at 9:00 and use your volume to set levels, and while it will be clean there won’t be much in the guts department.
Try the first option and see what you think.
You’re right, Shawn, the presets are like what most other brands’ presets are like...overcooked. Your best bet is to do a little research on your favorites to learn about them. Some you may never be able to clean up (Mesa model), but you’ll have fun trying.
Let us know what you come up with and you’ll end up helping others, I’m sure.
Wow! Ok, I can see myself going down a rabbit-hole pretty quick, and I’m not sure that is what I am looking to do here, so let’s see if I can shift gears a bit based on the info from @G-Dog & @iagtrplyr.
Let’s forget I ever said “flat.”
Also, it will probably help to understand that I’ve never heard an Ampeg or an Orange or anything other than a Rumble V3 in the wild. My bass playing began with the Covid lockdown, so not many chances to demo/hear other than what’s in the house at this point (part of what makes the capabilities of the Stage so appealing to me).
So, if I forget the idea of a “flat” setting, would saving a setting for each amp model in the Stage 800, no pre- or post- effects (I'm defining this as "clean," as in: "no external modification of the amp's natural sound"), with the “virtual knobs” set at 12 o’clock allow me to replicate (to some degree) the “experience” of bringing home an Ampeg or an Orange or a Super Bassman head to my house, plugging it into my Rumble V3 2x10 “cab”, and setting those “actual” amp knobs to 12 o’clock? That’s what I’m looking for. The chance to “demo” an SVT or an SWR or a Super Bassman (or at least their digital models) and A/B them via the Stage 800 to experience the differences between these types of amps and the effect of playing through each of them with my basses. Then tweak those amps via the physical knobs on the Stage to dial in a usable tone as desired (like you’d do on a “real” version of the amp)?
Thanks again for any help offered, I really do appreciate the info above. I hope this clarifies/simplifies what I am trying to accomplish, at least to start. I also hope this makes sense! Probably helps to assume I know little to nothing about what distinguishes the sound of an SVT vs. my Rumble 25 (I know a little, but not much).
That’s what I'd like to use the Stage to help with, for this exercise; developing my ear re: amp types and models. I am hoping that if I can use the Stage this way, to understand and appreciate the differences of a “neutralized” set of these amp models, I’ll be better equipped to leverage their “signatures” to find a desired tone/sound as my ear and playing matures. If I’m over-thinking all of this, please feel free to call me out.
I know I probably crammed your head full of stuff, but it is lots of fun and a great hobby, isn't it? Maybe start by picking out some favorite groups or bands who used equipment that you're seeking a tone for. When I think of Ampeg I think of Dave Hope in Kansas. If ya like clickity-clack (and great bass playing), you'll love about any of their early stuff. Try "Magnum Opus" and his short solo if ya want to know what an SVT sounds like.
Then go ahead and shut off all the toys and run tone controls to noon unless you've been given a tip, like G'Doggie did, and find out what the tone stack is for that amp. If you want antiseptic-dry, bring up the Acoustic model. That's a great baseline if I ever heard one. I like the Basic Bassman Clean or Basic Rumble for decent starting points. The Basic GK (Kgb-800) isn't a bad one to flatten out and play through, and the Basic Bri-Watt is one of my all-time go-to faves of all the models. It's clean with a bit of soul. Do not go near the Orangey Colour!!! That thing is crazed even before you start fattening it up with fuzz, lots of compression, and a boost (like I did). I'm afraid to switch over to it!
As I said, this will give you enough to stay occupied throughout the fall. Take your time, lots of small steps, but also enjoy the time experimenting.
Attention: Rumble Club Wiki Edit Alert!
Thank you, for the umpteenth time, @Droopy_TX. A link to your post COMPARING the Rumble Stage & Studio modeling to the Logic Pro X Sims has been added to the Rumble Club Wiki page near the middle of the Stage & Studio Links section. That, like all your posts, Droo, is another meticulously researched and thoughtfully presented treatise on this interesting and very valuable subject. Glad I'm able to capture this and link it for future reference.
Thank you, SO much, again, Droop, for sharing your insightful experience and views.
Fender Tone App (Apple) update (v3.1.2)
Is there anything obviously new? Fender is still using the same boilerplate description for all the update. I note there is no new firmware; so, I am assuming just bug fixes.
And my Android tablet has Version 3.1.3, Build 7881
I don't see any changes. Probably just bug fixes.
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