File sharing doesn't hurt musicians

[AaronVonRock]

Why does it matter? Could have been from a big box store.....could have been from the backseat of some musician's car. Doesn't matter

See above

I'm giving it to you because you're clearly in need of free stuff.

Again, doesn't matter. Obviously I don't want it because I'm giving it to you.

I asked these silly questions because I find the comparison between filing sharing and stealing physical products from retail stores to be silly. Some guy on here even tried to compare downloading music to breaking into someone's home and stealing their food. On another thread, some guy compared it to mugging an old lady. You can't reason with people like that.

 

[rocksmoot]

Just because you don't see the impact doesn't mean it's not there. Anyone with eyes can see the impact.

 

[bass12]

If my song was heard around the world and I didn't make a single cent I would die an extremely happy man. I do not know why you guys started playing music but I know why I did.

I think most of us probably started playing music for much the same reason. However, there is a big difference between being an amateur musician who can approach music as a hobby and a professional who depends on music for his livelihood. I would suspect, given your attitude, that you belong to the former group.

 

[guy n. cognito]

I asked these silly questions because I find the comparison between filing sharing and stealing physical products from retail stores to be silly. It's not a valid comparison. Some guy on here even tried to compare downloading music to breaking into someone's home and stealing their food. On another thread, some guy compared it to mugging an old lady.

Of course it is. The effect is the same whether you take a physical item or an intellectual one.....you take money from someone else's pocket. People lose money...or their jobs....because you and others deem it acceptable to steal their intellectual product. The fact that you can't comprehend that the stealing of intellectual property is still stealing is of no consequence to the reality.

 

[bass12]

I asked these silly questions because I find the comparison between filing sharing and stealing physical products from retail stores to be silly. Some guy on here even tried to compare downloading music to breaking into someone's home and stealing their food. On another thread, some guy compared it to mugging an old lady. You can't reason with people like that.

I think to get a proper grasp of the issue (file sharing) one does have to think abstractly. An inability to do so... results in some of the posts seen in this thread.

 

[AaronVonRock]

So the answer is yes.

Hey, go ahead, download away if that's what you want to do. Just don't have any illusions about not hurting anyone by doing it. As a previous poster said, have the balls to admit what it is you're really about.

I find your posts entertaining and disturbing at the same time. I love it.

Not sure what the "have the balls" stuff means. I saw another post say "Be a man". Didn't get that one, either. Interesting choice of words, though.

Is it Rocks-moot (as in Rock's moot) or Rock-smoot?

 

[AaronVonRock]

And you are a teacher - double pathetic :scowl:

Yes, Bass Pounder. I am The Teacher Who Downloads (but not at school). Who in their right mind would give me a job or let me teach children?

 

[dhsierra1]

I asked these silly questions because I find the comparison between filing sharing and stealing physical products from retail stores to be silly. Some guy on here even tried to compare downloading music to breaking into someone's home and stealing their food. On another thread, some guy compared it to mugging an old lady. You can't reason with people like that.

US law. as with many other countries, is very clear on intellectual property theft, whether that's patents, works for hire, trade secrets, copyrights, etc. Like securities fraud, it's considered colloquially as "white collar crime".

I've been involved in some real doozies with patent infringement claims and I can assure you lawyers, judges, and the afflicted parties take it all very seriously because there's a lot of money at stake. Yes, people's livelihoods. You don't have to beat someone up on the street for it to be considered theft.

 

[AaronVonRock]

US law. as with many other countries, is very clear on intellectual property theft, whether that's patents, works for hire, trade secrets, copyrights, etc.

I don't live in the US.

 

[bass12]

Yes, Bass Pounder. I am The Teacher Who Downloads (but not at school). Who in their right mind would give me a job or let me teach children?

Do you get paid for your services?

 

[dhsierra1]

I don't live in the US.

I'm aware of that. The Asian model, specifically China and a few others. of trampling over intellectual property laws is going to hurt them in the long run. They feel, like a lot of people do, that if it isn't something immediately tangible like a device, car, etc, then it isn't worthy of protection.

I know personally of a number of smaller technology companies who have manufactured in China now moving out because of exactly these issues.

 

[rocksmoot]

I find your posts entertaining and disturbing at the same time. I love it.

Not sure what the "have the balls" stuff means. I saw another post say "Be a man". Didn't get that one, either. Interesting choice of words, though.

Is it Rocks-moot (as in Rock's moot) or Rock-smoot?

It's rock smoot, a nick name given to me by my son, thanks for asking.

Glad you find them entertaining, and I believe you when you say you find them disturbing. Many people seem to find the notion of individual rights disturbing these days, at least until they find themselves on the wrong side of the mob vs. individual argument.

I own a (very) small software company so the digital assets I'm most interested in are software components, but the principle is the same. I work to create things of value, and I sell them. It's a lot like creating an album, part creativity, talent and a lot of work.

People can (and do) steal my work, and the effect is the same as if they had broken into my home and taken my money. Even so, there are people who believe that software should be free, so the comparison is pretty valid in that respect as well.

The "balls" comment was about having at the very least the courage to admit that what you are doing is theft. It would require more imagination than has been on display in this thread so far to admit that file sharing (theft) has and continues to cause harm to real people.

 

[rapturebass]

Trying to make money off digital sales seems absurd to me. Digital music should be free; physical formats still sell. People still definitely pay for CDs, cassettes, and vinyl, whether b/c of audio quality or the tradition of holding someone tangible//the ritual of buying physical copies. Digital music is singularly a promotional tool/convenience (b/c sometimes taking physical formats places can be inconveniencing). Bands barely make money anyway//only make money from touring and merch sales. The expectation of people paying for digital formats is outdated and practically asinine.

 

[AaronVonRock]

I'm aware of that. The Asian model, specifically China and a few others. of trampling over intellectual property laws is going to hurt them in the long run. They feel, like a lot of people do, that if it isn't something immediately tangible like a device, car, etc, then it isn't worthy of protection.

I know personally of a number of smaller technology companies who have manufactured in China now moving out because of exactly these issues.

If anything, the loosening of intellectual property laws in countries like China, Taiwan, Thailand, Malaysia, Vietnam, and India has brought great benefits to the average citizen in the form of greater access to information and greater access to affordable medicine. Whether it hurts these countries in the long run remains to be seen.

 

[AaronVonRock]

Trying to make money off digital sales seems absurd to me. Digital music should be free; physical formats still sell. People still definitely pay for CDs, cassettes, and vinyl, whether b/c of audio quality or the tradition of holding someone tangible//the ritual of buying physical copies. Digital music is singularly a promotional tool/convenience (b/c sometimes taking physical formats places can be inconveniencing). Bands barely make money anyway//only make money from touring and merch sales. The expectation of people paying for digital formats is outdated and practically asinine.

I agree that digital music should be free (and it is.) Another crazy thing about digital sales is that companies have the nerve to charge $0.99 to download one song. So if I pay to download a 12-13 song album on-line, it's the same cost as buying a physical CD with packaging at a retail store. Outrageous.

 

[dhsierra1]

If anything, the loosening of intellectual property laws in countries like China, Taiwan, Thailand, Malaysia, Vietnam, and India has brought great benefits to the average citizen in the form of greater access to information and greater access to affordable medicine. Whether it hurts these countries in the long run remains to be seen.

you could look at it that way. Greater access to affordable medicine is a business and political decision, though.

Stealing the patents to create them, which is in fact what's happened, is another story.

Two wrongs, denying people access to meds, and stealing the means to make them (while the local company makes an enormous profit, btw) don't make a right.

It's an entitlement mentality that isn't going to work in the long run. Why? Everything costs something. Commerce has been around since humans could trade animal hides for food. That model isn't going away anytime soon.

If I may ask, what do you do for a living? I didn't read the whole thread so I may have missed that. Whatever it is you do, you don't seem to have any idea how business really works, no offense intended, but....

 

[guy n. cognito]

I agree that digital music should be free (and it is.) Another crazy thing about digital sales is that companies have the nerve to charge $0.99 to download one song. So if I pay to download a 12-13 song album on-line, it's the same cost as buying a physical CD with packaging at a retail store. Outrageous.

It is not free, it is stolen. The fact that enforcement is difficult does not change the legality.

 

[dhsierra1]

It is not free, it is stolen. The fact that enforcement is difficult does not change the legality.

+!, it is difficult, but remember, Kim Dotcom is being prosecuted, so there's a start.

 

[AaronVonRock]

It's rock smoot, a nick name given to me by my son, thanks for asking.

Glad you find them entertaining, and I believe you when you say you find them disturbing. Many people seem to find the notion of individual rights disturbing these days, at least until they find themselves on the wrong side of the mob vs. individual argument.

I own a (very) small software company so the digital assets I'm most interested in are software components, but the principle is the same. I work to create things of value, and I sell them. It's a lot like creating an album, part creativity, talent and a lot of work.

People can (and do) steal my work, and the effect is the same as if they had broken into my home and taken my money. Even so, there are people who believe that software should be free, so the comparison is pretty valid in that respect as well.

The "balls" comment was about having at the very least the courage to admit that what you are doing is theft. It would require more imagination than has been on display in this thread so far to admit that file sharing (theft) has and continues to cause harm to real people.

Well, we don't share the same view when it comes to file sharing. It seems to be a polarizing topic. Since it's something that I'm interested in, I enjoy reading others' opinions on it. Thank you for providing yours. Namaste.

 

[AaronVonRock]

you could look at it that way. Greater access to affordable medicine is a business and political decision, though.

Stealing the patents to create them, which is in fact what's happened, is another story.

Two wrongs, denying people access to meds, and stealing the means to make them (while the local company makes an enormous profit, btw) don't make a right.

It's an entitlement mentality that isn't going to work in the long run. Why? Everything costs something. Commerce has been around since humans could trade animal hides for food. That model isn't going away anytime soon.

If I may ask, what do you do for a living? I didn't read the whole thread so I may have missed that. Whatever it is you do, you don't seem to have any idea how business really works, no offense intended, but....

Well, we don't share the same view when it comes to file sharing. It seems to be a polarizing topic. Since it's something that I'm interested in, I enjoy reading others' opinions on it. Thank you for providing yours. Namaste.