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Finally Played One and It Was Terrifying. ;)
- Thread starter SRCRS
- Start date
I've been playing for over 40 years, starting out with the same cheap music store crap that everybody used. I swapped a lot of cabs, moving into exotics, re-purposed home audio and PA gear, and was never satisfied.
Got into 5-string, which just complicated matters further, as did the worsening of long-standing back trouble.
Finally, extended-range cabs started to mature. By the mid-90's, small 3-way boxes from Acme and Flite made me about 80% happy with my gear. A Bose L1 got me to about 90%, thanks to non-Bose subs, until it got to be too much for my aging back.
The last few years have been about getting my rig even smaller and lighter for medical reasons, and chasing that last, elusive 10%. I'd say I'm at about 95% with my current rig (AudioKinesis Thunderchild 112AF, plus Genz and G-K 900 watt-ish micro heads).
Truth be told, i might already be at 100%, and this is as good as it gets. But after all those years of chasing rainbows, I've gotten used to constant improvement, so I keep looking.
All this is by way of saying that if you're young and strong, and love the sound of conventional gear, why worry about fEarful's and the like? This is not about great tone- we already got there around the time David Eden built his first 2*10, and lots of great music has been made using standard cabs.
But if you're an oddball who's always been looking for something else, then these new, highly engineered full range-boxes are a Godsend. And you're in good company. This is what guys like Entwhistle were after with their massive multi-driver rigs.
Best of all, you don't have to settle for a single interpretation of extended-range bass. Duke, Greenboy, Roger Baer, Alex Claber and others are giving us lots of choice.
Got into 5-string, which just complicated matters further, as did the worsening of long-standing back trouble.
Finally, extended-range cabs started to mature. By the mid-90's, small 3-way boxes from Acme and Flite made me about 80% happy with my gear. A Bose L1 got me to about 90%, thanks to non-Bose subs, until it got to be too much for my aging back.
The last few years have been about getting my rig even smaller and lighter for medical reasons, and chasing that last, elusive 10%. I'd say I'm at about 95% with my current rig (AudioKinesis Thunderchild 112AF, plus Genz and G-K 900 watt-ish micro heads).
Truth be told, i might already be at 100%, and this is as good as it gets. But after all those years of chasing rainbows, I've gotten used to constant improvement, so I keep looking.
All this is by way of saying that if you're young and strong, and love the sound of conventional gear, why worry about fEarful's and the like? This is not about great tone- we already got there around the time David Eden built his first 2*10, and lots of great music has been made using standard cabs.
But if you're an oddball who's always been looking for something else, then these new, highly engineered full range-boxes are a Godsend. And you're in good company. This is what guys like Entwhistle were after with their massive multi-driver rigs.
Best of all, you don't have to settle for a single interpretation of extended-range bass. Duke, Greenboy, Roger Baer, Alex Claber and others are giving us lots of choice.
Jim Carr
Dr. Jim
- Jan 21, 2006
- 16,223
- 7,613
- 76
- Disclosures
- fEARful Kool-Aid dispensing liberal academic card-carrying union member Musicians Local 72-147
+1
Never a better time before for us.
I am the same generation and talkin' bout it.
My 15/6/1 can do what I want—and weighs a lot more than Steve's TC, yet I consider it light and manageable. It does what any 410 or even maybe 610 can do, and is way more flexible.
Though I am not mostly a "full range" player, I do have need for THAT for some gigs. I am very happy that these new cabinets exist, and when coupled with the new GB/GK/Carbine heads, yikes! 
Never a better time before for us.
I am the same generation and talkin' bout it.
My 15/6/1 can do what I want—and weighs a lot more than Steve's TC, yet I consider it light and manageable. It does what any 410 or even maybe 610 can do, and is way more flexible. Though I am not mostly a "full range" player, I do have need for THAT for some gigs. I am very happy that these new cabinets exist, and when coupled with the new GB/GK/Carbine heads, yikes!
scottfeldstein
Roots and fifths and a little extra.
I'm 44 and I started playing when I was 13. Thing is, I left music entirely between 99 and 2011. It's pretty shocking. I started with a Peavey 15" combo, which was completely inadequate for the hard rock musicians I hung out with. I eventually built my own 18/10/10 backbreaker cab and ran it with nothing but a power amp, a crossover and a 31 band graphic EQ.
Things have changed. For the better.
Things have changed. For the better.
but those drivers are not operating in the same conditions that generated those specs. They are wired up to a crossover and in a tuned enclosure. Both of which affect sensitivity.
I'm actually going to finally get around to building a 12/6 now that I am out of debt and speakerhardware has the kits back in stock. But I just keep seeing posts that claim a fearful is as loud as a 4x10 (possible) or as loud as a an 8x10 (dubious).
I am sure they are great. But it seems to me that what is left out of a lot of statements about fearfuls is that they are louder when you have a ton of power to spare. Meaning they won't run out of power handling before you run out of amp headroom. (within reason)
Some folks (like me) may want the smallest, lightest MOST EFFICIENT cabinet possible, and from what I gather fearful aint that.
Light, loud, low. Pick any two. Right?
I think a couple of Fearfuls with a 500 watt Aguilar will make a nice second amp for me.
But I don't think it will cure my skin tags or my astigmatism.
- Mar 8, 2011
- 12,232
- 51,187
- Disclosures
- Authorized greenboy designs builder/Owner of BNA Audio
A typical fEARful certainly will not be as efficient as a single 15 or even a Dually, for example, but that stands to reason. They don't need tons of power to sound good, but they do take a ton of power and keep going. As far as being as loud as a 410 or an 810...depends on which cab we're talking about. I have put a single 15/6 next to a GK rbh 410/115 stack and everyone at the club agreed the 15/6 sounded better, deeper and clearer...this was before I'd ever heard a fEARful, so I had no bias at the time
I have also put a 1515/66/1 next to a good 810...no contest. I think the clarity adds to the perception of loudness as well.
Well, your 12/6 by itself won't get as loud as an 8x10.
But two of'em get pretty close. Get dual 15s if you wanna match (or pass) fridge volumes. So says many former fridge owners/users.
FWIW, I've forgotten to bridge my head before, which put me at 500W instead of 1500W. I didn't notice till I was packing up. Slight sound difference, but good, so I didn't think to check anything.
So you're correct, a 12/6 fEARful wont compete with an 810 in volume. However the 1515/66 will, and I also believe the 1212/6 will. As for your smallest, lightest, most efficient comment I disagree there too. Because the 1515/66 and the 1212/6 are both smaller lighter lower and louder (or just as loud in the case of the 1212/6 than an 810.
As for your allusion to Hoffman's Iron Law, your right pick any two the iron law cant be broken. However, fEARfuls do a good job of bending that iron. Further more, you could always have 2 12/6's which fall outside of Hoffmans Iron Law, considering his law applies only to 1 Cab not an entire rig. So with 2 12/6's you definitly get light, low, and loud.
Depends on which cab model you use. A 15/6 with enough power could match a 410. A 1515/66 would blow away an 810 AND have better clarity in the low end. Tone as always, is subjective and greatly dependent on input.
Given the fEARfuls design goals, they are comparable in efficiency to most of what is out there. They ain't Acme's. They also aren't Schroeders which are more efficient but do so by giving up lots of low end.
Cab design is all about compromises. Given today's new neo speakers, the 3015LF along with the design of the fEARfuls, those compromises are not huge in any one area. They are light for their output, they can get deafeningly loud AND they can handle sub 100Hz low end with clarity. So, for the most part, with a fEARFul (and similar designs) you actually can have a lightweight cab that gets loud and goes low with clarity.
My 15/6 weighs 47 lbs. gets VERY loud with enough power and best of all does so at gig volume while pumping out STRONG 60Hz on up frequencies without farting out.
Are they the best cab out there? For many who use them they are, but certainly won't be for everyone. Again, tone is subjective and not everyone is able to get the tone they want from a fEARful, mostly due to what users have for input and how they use that. fEARfuls take to EQing very well, but a lot of players just want a plug and play cab with baked in voicing. Which is fine...lots to choose from.
- Mar 8, 2011
- 12,232
- 51,187
- Disclosures
- Authorized greenboy designs builder/Owner of BNA Audio
This one is also subjective, but on a 12/6, I'd go with the Alphalite 6a mid driver...great balance with the 3012LF
When you just start adding up driver sensitivity, power input, etc., the 15/6 could run as "loud" as a 410, at least in the bandwidth where the 410 is effective If you've got a big amp with enough juice at 8ohms to push it that far. Still, thermal compression will set in at some point and take away that last 2-3db. Also something to be said for letting your gear cruise along in it's comfort zone and not pushing it to it's limits all the time, the fearful isn't designed to get cone cry or other "character" from doing that, rather get loud and stay clean.
The 1212/6 might be a better 410 substitute in that case. It'll end up being capable of more output than most any 410, consider that headroom, or the ability to get louder with a smaller amp.
Also something to be said for the sounding louder, even though some spl measurements might not show it. The dispersion, extension and clarity of the mid will give more percieved volume, ie: the ability to hear yourself easier without cranking as loud. Also the woofers extension that beats most other cabs below 80hz. The bottom is going to sound deeper and a lot louder, simoly because most typical 410's don't have much, if any, appreciable output down there.
So, a couple things there adding to the percieved loudness, aside from just adding up watts and decibels.
I have a 1212/6/1... I'll reiterate that no, I don't think it'd out-dB a good 8x10 in a flat out volume war.
But it is in the ballpark. Enough so that "carry the house" gigs that most would (and do) bring 8x10s for, it also does the job just fine. So I consider it a close functional equivalent. (How often does one actually need to push these big cabs to the limit?)
A 4x10? Pretty sure it'd smoke any 4x10 I've ever heard.
But it is in the ballpark. Enough so that "carry the house" gigs that most would (and do) bring 8x10s for, it also does the job just fine. So I consider it a close functional equivalent. (How often does one actually need to push these big cabs to the limit?)
A 4x10? Pretty sure it'd smoke any 4x10 I've ever heard.
Bill F used to suggest that the Eminence Beta 10 was a good model for most commercial 10" systems. It has a displacement volume of 102 cc. The 3012LF displaces 494 cc. So I know it's dangerous to focus on a single parameter, but a back-of-envelope analysis suggests that a 12/6 should be louder than a classic 4x10. The 3015LF displaces 846 cc, so a 15/6 should be on an even footing with an 8x10. Of course modern 10" drivers would move more air.
But louder than a 4x10 or 8x10? Volume is subjective. Without wanting to sound like a troll, we know that raw specs are of limited use when predicting the loudness of any particular setup. One specific 300-Watt amp is widely reported to be louder than other amps with much higher power ratings.
So, we're in the ballpark where the ears have to be the final judge on volume. I have little doubt that a lot depends on the actual response curve, and where the speaker is putting the sound in the room.
But louder than a 4x10 or 8x10? Volume is subjective. Without wanting to sound like a troll, we know that raw specs are of limited use when predicting the loudness of any particular setup. One specific 300-Watt amp is widely reported to be louder than other amps with much higher power ratings.
So, we're in the ballpark where the ears have to be the final judge on volume. I have little doubt that a lot depends on the actual response curve, and where the speaker is putting the sound in the room.
You missed sensitivity in the equation; four beta 10s will be almost 6db more sensitive than a 12/6 (if not a hair more).
Comparing a 12/6 sensitivity with a 2x10, and a 15/6 with a 4x10 is a pretty close comparison mostly.
Well, to be dead honest I've compared my 15/6 to an Ampeg 810 and the 810 was definitely louder.
I'd say a 12/6 is as about as loud as a 310.
I'd say a 12/6 is as about as loud as a 310.
Well, your 12/6 by itself won't get as loud as an 8x10.
But two of'em get pretty close. Get dual 15s if you wanna match (or pass) fridge volumes. So says many former fridge owners/users.
I'm not looking to replace an 8x10. I am looking to replace my 2x15 with two 12/6 or a 12/6 and 12 sub.
Ah, you know that wasn't a fair fight! It had one cabinet tied behind its back!As far as being as loud as a 410 or an 810...depends on which cab we're talking about. I have put a single 15/6 next to a GK rbh 410/115 stack and everyone at the club agreed the 15/6 sounded better, deeper and clearer...this was before I'd ever heard a fEARful, so I had no bias at the time
"with enough power" being the operative phrase here.
People used to say the same thing about the Acme 2x10.
IME Schroeders give up some low end. Not "Lots".
again, I do not doubt that Fearfuls get loud. I am talking about how loud they get per watt. If I am "stuck" with a Marshall Superbass I probably want the most efficient cabinet possible, at the expense of low end extension. From what I gather the Fearful would not be the best choice there.
Good thing I am not "cursed" with a Superbass!
And will be buying an Aggy head instead.
