Finally starting my OWN project

[modulusman]

From 1986-2006 I can count ON THE FINGERS OF ONE HAND the times I plugged the DB into anything bigger than 100w. I can count on the fingers of ONE FINGER the times I needed a PA and couldn't rent/borrow one. I've never owned a single PA component.

That requirement just ain't one.

Must have been some Lame bands if you never were DIed to a PA. You are trying to be a bandleader. In my book if you want to be a BL then providing something besides a guitar amp for a vocal PA is required. Seams like your band members came to the same conclusion I did and bailed, your project is not viable. Learn from it and try again.

 

[sean_on_bass]

No then you would need a decent enough PA so people could here you.

Not completely true, especially if a drummer is not present. Not to mention you can plug a DB into a bass amp..which he has.

 

[modulusman]

But if he played well i would forget all of that. You sir, are a gear snob of the worst variety.

Playing well is only part of the equation. Being a bandleader requires some business sense and a monetary investment to do it right. Have you ever started a successful band? You can call me a gear snob all you want but I have been doing this for 35 years and averaged over 10K a year from what is a part time job.

 

[sean_on_bass]

Playing well is only part of the equation. Being a bandleader requires some business sense and a monetary investment to do it right. Have you ever started a successful band? You can call me a gear snob all you want but I have been doing this for 35 years and averaged over 10K a year from what is a part time job.

Well it really depends on what your goals are. He has a full time day job and just wants to have a band to gig with on occasion, preferably with others on the same wave length. There is nothing wrong with that.

Now if his goals were to start a business, via a band, then i might agree with you. But that is not the case.

Also, thanks for telling me how much you make, that's a sign of real class.

 

[lilcrate]

I will say the Modulusman does have a bit of a point. I enjoy this thread, wish Remy the best outcome, and am not a huge gear snob. I also don't know if what he's wanting to get going is impossible with his gear. But I will say, if I were meeting and/or working with a band leader on a project, the gear that person has would definitely weigh in on my evaluation of the seriousness of the project. I'm not saying it would make or break anything, but I'd be more faithful in the project if there was adequate gear already present.

And I really have no clue what kind of gear is needed for your goals/project, but I'd imagine the people interested in your project have an idea of what they consider adequate for your project. Your gear may or may not be enough in their eyes, but regardless I'm sure it is something they have thought about.

 

[ArtechnikA]

IME, which I admit is not extensive in the world of professional gigging bands, you need to be able to match the level of the loudest acoustic instrument, at least at practice. In this case that's - violin? I did a lot of folk-group stuff with multiple guitars (some of which were 12-strings) and the vocalists had no issues being heard. I know these days it's customary for even a solo act to amplify vocals and guitar but for 'intimate jazz' I don't see that PA is a prerequisite for rehearsal. And definitely maybe if venues have adequate FOH support. If not, than maybe so...

You only really need an impressive bass rig if crowds are clamoring for more bass. Like Remy says, upright level should be adequate with the current lineup. If the keys player is having doubts about her sound quality than maybe that's an issue but I get the feeling her issues go deeper - I'm not prepared to speculate on what tho.

Remy does seem to be wanting and expecting levels of effort, involvement, and dedication not matched by any realizable benefit. There aren't any gigs booked, even free gigs 'for the exposure.' Remy (I believe) think's they're not ready - and maybe that's true. They won't be ready without practice, and yet there is no incentive to practice, because there is no indication the project is going anywhere. He's created a 'vanity band' that serves no defined audience. (I'd love to be wrong on this, but it's my current impression.)

'The Gear' may be a convenient excuse, but at some point the BL needs a better answer for 'what am I getting out of this?' than "We're doing what I like..."

 

[modulusman]

Well it really depends on what your goals are. He has a full time day job and just wants to have a band to gig with on occasion, preferably with others on the same wave length. There is nothing wrong with that.

Now if his goals were to start a business, via a band, then i might agree with you. But that is not the case.

Also, thanks for telling me how much you make, that's a sign of real class.

All bands that want to play out for money should be treated as a business IMO.

 

[xgator4u]

If the keys player is having doubts about her sound quality than maybe that's an issue but I get the feeling her issues go deeper -

Hmmm,
This line set me to thinking....
Is there any chance that keyboard girl
ain't coming back as a result of
things NOT going deep ENOUGH ?

Just sayin...

 

[Remyd]

Heard back from the pianist - personal issues; she doesn't know how long they will take to resolve.

So, I'm not sure what's next, at least in the short term. Country? Folk?

Got a $50 donation to the amp fund yesterday, so not all bad news

 

[Remyd]

Remy does seem to be wanting and expecting levels of effort, involvement, and dedication not matched by any realizable benefit. There aren't any gigs booked, even free gigs 'for the exposure.' Remy (I believe) think's they're not ready - and maybe that's true. They won't be ready without practice, and yet there is no incentive to practice, because there is no indication the project is going anywhere. He's created a 'vanity band' that serves no defined audience. (I'd love to be wrong on this, but it's my current impression.)

Well, we did play the one place, and have/had the church gig. A buddy that runs a bbq place was interested in a couple of hours of country / folk, so not 100% nothing, but absolutely not very much.

Why is everybody so down on starting a project? This supposed to be a forum full of musicians, right? Don't musicians start bands? If this was my only source of advice, I would have packed it in a long time ago. That is obviously BS, and I don't accept that premise either.

I never did one before, so I don't know how it ought to be done, but the one that is on hold right now seems to be in good shape, with the hard work behind us.

I really enjoy playing bass. I want to do with a group. It would be nice if that group could fund some gear. I'm not starting a fortune 500 company. I'm not a rocker that needs tons of gear to blow peoples faces off. Playing out a dozen times would make me satisfied, one is already done and two more are in the works.

The band that can make music is much better than the theoretical pile of gear and star aspirations that I don't have and don't want. If that makes this a vanity band, then it is a vanity band.

Music, remember? Language of the gods?

 

[modulusman]

Well, we did play the one place, and have/had the church gig. A buddy that runs a bbq place was interested in a couple of hours of country / folk, so not 100% nothing, but absolutely not very much.

Why is everybody so down on starting a project? This supposed to be a forum full of musicians, right? Don't musicians start bands? If this was my only source of advice, I would have packed it in a long time ago. That is obviously BS, and I don't accept that premise either.

I never did one before, so I don't know how it ought to be done, but the one that is on hold right now seems to be in good shape, with the hard work behind us.

I really enjoy playing bass. I want to do with a group. It would be nice if that group could fund some gear. I'm not starting a fortune 500 company. I'm not a rocker that needs tons of gear to blow peoples faces off. Playing out a dozen times would make me satisfied, one is already done and two more are in the works.

The band that can make music is much better than the theoretical pile of gear and star aspirations that I don't have and don't want. If that makes this a vanity band, then it is a vanity band.

Music, remember? Language of the gods?

Gee if you and I were both trying to recruit the same musicians for a start up who would they pick. You show up at my house for an audition and there is $2500.00 rehearsal PA set up and a drum set available. The average person would think I'm way more serious about it than you. I just got a kick out of you referring to your so called band members as flakes because they can see the writing on the wall that there will be a few low$ or free gigs and they will probably have to spend money on equipment rental when you play out

 

[Remyd]

Gee if you and I were both trying to recruit the same musicians for a start up who would they pick. You show up at my house for an audition and there is $2500.00 rehearsal PA set up and a drum set available. The average person would think I'm way more serious about it than you. I just got a kick out of you referring to your so called band members as flakes because they can see the writing on the wall that there will be a few low$ or free gigs and they will probably have to spend money on equipment rental when you play out

Of course they would think that, it's blatantly true. What would I need all that stuff for? Comes to mind that this post is a perfect demonstration of the point you're missing.

 

[lilcrate]

Just to clarify I was not downing your project. I am 100% supportive and feel I have expressed it. I also don't know what people in your genre expect or look for. And it isn't about being a gear junkie or being really loud. But having something decent is just one of the things that show you are dedicated and invested. There are many other factors people pick up on. Just saying that is one of them.

 

[ArtechnikA]

Why is everybody so down on starting a project?... Don't musicians start bands?

Nobody's down on it. Everybody who's done it has remarked on how hard it is, especially in the absence of actual gig incentives. I think you'll find very few musicians actually start bands. Most join bands already in progress, I think. And you kinda hamstrung yourself from the get-go by insisting it be an all-Craig's List undertaking.

It would be nice if that group could fund some gear.

Yes, you've been very clear on what you want out of it. The hard part is going to be convincing others that they should put in the work so you can buy gear. I come back to the question that you must be able to answer for anyone wanting to participate: "What's in it for me?"

If that makes this a vanity band, then it is a vanity band.

No, what makes it a vanity band is assembling a group of people to play music you want to play, without providing any incentive to the players other than they should like it too. This is hard enough for BL's with hired-gun session players. Finding a group off the street who all share your vision and passion and want to do it only for the sheer joy of participation would be quite a coup.

Professional musicians will expect to be compensated. Hobby players have day jobs and family responsibilities that will trump anything you're offering, in the long run. You can get them together periodically for the joy of the music and the hang, but it's not going to be a priority without an incentive. "Make enough money for Remy to buy equipment" will likely not be perceived as a viable incentive -- even if in your mind it is for the benefit of the group. "What's good for Remy is good for us all." Won't fly for long unless you're recruiting starry-eyed naifs.

Music, remember? Language of the gods?

Yeah - got it. What's in it for the players? Set your sights on a goal, and get buy-in from the participants. You're a project manager - you know this. Book a gig with a date certain. A paying gig would be best, but if it's only a charity gig, so be it. We're a month away from Halloween which by all accounts is one of the big gig opportunities of the year. You should be able to score _some_ kind of party function for Halloween. You'll find out who's on board. If you _do_ score such a gig, somehow get video, and your press kit and website are on their way. Without something you can show clients, you're left with PowerPoints and finger puppets...

I'd be thrilled if you were able to pull this off.

I already work with people who are spring-loaded to dismiss anyone who points out risks and roadblocks as "not a team player" and are yet willing to throw those same people under the bus when adversity strikes saying "Why didn't you tell me?" You've got some challenges, not least of which are no clear goal to rally the troops and no incentive to put in the work.

 

[modulusman]

Of course they would think that, it's blatantly true. What would I need all that stuff for? Comes to mind that this post is a perfect demonstration of the point you're missing.

Oh I don't know maybe because you are trying to start a band. lol

 

[vmabus]

Last band I started, my first recruit was a drummer with:

• rehearsal space
• full PA setup
• bass amp
• guitar amp
• keyboard
• comfy couch

Basically, all anyone else would have to do is show up (although this must be harder than it sounds...)

 

[xgator4u]

If that makes this a vanity band, then it is a vanity band.

Music, remember? Language of the gods?

Make NO MISTAKE remyd.
It's ALL vanity in the end.

 

[Shovel]

Remy, just go for it man. I've been watching this thread for a long time now, and if there's one thing you've expressed, it's your want to play music with a group.
If no one in the group has complained about lack of PA, I don't see it as an issue yet.
It's your thing, do what you wanna do

 

[FatBoutedGirls]

It's all about finding like minded individuals, lots of self-important gear snobs out there but you've made it clear that you don't want to play weddings and corporate events. Keep jamming and networking, you'll be fine.

I've got $10 in the "get Remyd a real bass amp" fund already. Keep this thread interesting and it'll grow.

 

[EddiePlaysBass]

So what about the singer? He performing any better yet? Or am I mixing threads?