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Fodera Club Part XIII

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I appreciate the response but I'm bit confused as to answers..

my question is how much of the price is actually paying for the name.. Like Gucci or Prada or any popular name brand product in the world..

Maybe it was a stupid question and the answer is ofcourse it's just like any other popular product?


Oh well it's no big deal I was just wonder..

Also

Surely In a world as big and influential as ours is it possible that only 2 ppl know how to make such a unique high quality product?
 
Sir,

They are master craftsmen. They do not produce vanity goods but musical instruments. I am afraid you are making a bad comparison. They are not a "popular brand product", they are world renown luthiers who have been in business almost 30 years.

I believe the reason you are confused is you don't understand what you are asking.




I appreciate the response but I'm bit confused as to answers..

my question is how much of the price is actually paying for the name.. Like Gucci or Prada or any popular name brand product in the world..
 
Thank you Steu. It took me many years to learn about and understand this. Being involved in the Art world and building for Gibson really opened my mind.


this is spot-on.

materials, etc., you can get. the experience and a lifetime of working knowledge, you can't.

i never quite understand how people don't get this.

"i have a 4-string bass and so does victor bailey. doesn't that mean we play the same?"

***?

sorry, but this stuff just frosts me at times.
 
I appreciate the response but I'm bit confused as to answers..

my question is how much of the price is actually paying for the name.. Like Gucci or Prada or any popular name brand product in the world..

Maybe it was a stupid question and the answer is ofcourse it's just like any other popular product?


Oh well it's no big deal I was just wonder..

Also

Surely In a world as big and influential as ours is it possible that only 2 ppl know how to make such a unique high quality product?

You won't actually got an answer on this question, it's all about the customer's mind and intention..

Marketing point of view.
If I would like to purchase a custom bass which able to fullfil all my musical needs with quality, nice building material, first class craftsmanship, amazing customer service,etc and I knew exactly Fodera can offers me this = 100% of my money all goes to these items and values, while I assume any brands/builder can get my business as long as they can provide all these. So my purchasing is not about the butterfly on the headstock but simply because Fodera able to offer me all those.

If a customer know nothing about his needs or what can a builder able to offer, and simply spend all his money on a Fodera because of their reputation. I suppose at least half of the money spent will go to the "name" because of this intention, though the customer still purchase a super hi-class instrument...

my 2 cents..
 
Fivestring, Forget what product I mention missing forest for the trees; I think u understand my question ..

Maybe I'm misinformed as I thought Fodera is extremely popular for the market they are in and appeal to.. I think the long wait list says how popular they might be..

They seem to have quite a niche


Thanks for the response Timothy that makes sense..

I don't doubt the product is unique but I am shocked to hear so many ppl say no other comparable quality exists in world :)

Obviously many things separate them from competition

Who is ????
 
I don't doubt the product is unique but I am shocked to hear so many ppl say no other comparable quality exists in world :)

That isn't what people are saying. There are builders who "comparable" - and I think that Vinny, Joey and Jason would be the first to name a few. But while the level of quality may be comparable, they are not a Fodera. Just like a Fodera is not an MTD.

Once you get to a certain level of builder, you're paying for their experience and their philosophy. And those things tend to be unique and not really amenable to an objective comparison. So the only metric that people can easily latch onto is price. But that is a small part of the puzzle when push comes to shove.
 
That isn't what people are saying. There are builders who "comparable" - and I think that Vinny, Joey and Jason would be the first to name a few. But while the level of quality may be comparable, they are not a Fodera. Just like a Fodera is not an MTD.

Once you get to a certain level of builder, you're paying for their experience and their philosophy. And those things tend to be unique and not really amenable to an objective comparison. So the only thing metric that people can easily latch onto is price. But that is a small part of the puzzle when push comes to shove.

*exactly* . . .

further, how many builders do you see who tip their hat to or cite fodera as being preeminent instrument makers—and as *having been an influenced on their own builds*? this is a big key.

also, the whole gucci/prada thing is ridiculous, imho.

if you want to go to "luxury" versus mass-produced items you'd be better off (though it's only analogy) of a sliding scale from kia to fender to bmw to ferrari/maserati/aston martin/bentley at the top—with any number of people being in the top tier.

i can think of at least three builders who are up the cost range of the fodera stuff: fodera, alembic, ritter. i'm sure there are more.
 
Fivestring, Forget what product I mention missing forest for the trees; I think u understand my question ..

Maybe I'm misinformed as I thought Fodera is extremely popular for the market they are in and appeal to.. I think the long wait list says how popular they might be..

They seem to have quite a niche


Thanks for the response Timothy that makes sense..

I don't doubt the product is unique but I am shocked to hear so many ppl say no other comparable quality exists in world :)

Obviously many things separate them from competition

Who is ????

If I may I will take a shot at it...anyone who knows me here knows I have owned and/or played pretty much everything out there. Of all the builders I have been fortunate to have represented in my stable there are really only a few that stand out for me. I place Mr. Fodera (and the entire staff of Fodera!) at the very pinnacle of a short list just because he is truly building at another level of great! I have played my Fodera side by side with 3 Sadowskys, 2 US Lakland 4-94s, 2 US Spectors, several European Spectors, a half dozen EBMM Stingrays and Stingray 5s and an Alleva Coppollo LG4. I have never been more pleased with a purchase in my life as I have from these builders in particular. There are other great ones out there and I am not dissing anyone here at all. I just consider these particular builders to be at the very top of this game!! I know that all these builders respect each other and I know for each of them that they all feel they have their own place in this market and they all do! I think that at least for me each one of these builders does something that is totally unique from the other. I mean let's face it, some will say how can you put a $1,500 Stingray in a list like this? The answer is because nothing else DOES a Stingray like a Stingray! But nothing else does a Sadowsky like a Sadowsky and NOBODY does what Jimmy is doing in a Vintage Inspired Jazz Bass...just my $.02! I get value and I get a great experience from every instrument I own! Each one inspires me in a different way and I appreciate that. I am blessed to have INCREDIBLE instruments but the one I always reach for now is my Fodera. To be honest, as expensive as they are the ONLY thing I am really gassing for right now is another Fodera...or 2! THAT says it all for me...

Peace,

T
 
I have never been more pleased with a purchase in my life as I have from these builders in particular. There are other great ones out there and I am not dissing anyone here at all. I just consider these particular builders to be at the very top of this game!! I know that all these builders respect each other and I know for each of them that they all feel they have their own place in this market and they all do! I think that at least for me each one of these builders does something that us totally unique from the other. I mean let's face it, some will say how can you put a $1,500 Stingray in a list like this? The answer is because nothing else DOES a Stingray like a Stingray! But nothing else does a Sadowsky like a Sadowsky and NOBODY does what Jimmy is doing in a Vintage Inspired Jazz Bass...just my $.02! I get value and I get a great experience from everyone instrument I own! Each one inspires me in a different way and I appreciate that.

Exactly.
 
I appreciate the response but I'm bit confused as to answers..

my question is how much of the price is actually paying for the name.. Like Gucci or Prada or any popular name brand product in the world..

Maybe it was a stupid question and the answer is ofcourse it's just like any other popular product?


Oh well it's no big deal I was just wonder..

Also

Surely In a world as big and influential as ours is it possible that only 2 ppl know how to make such a unique high quality product?

While you'll pay more for a Fodera than most other brands, not that much is for the name. As Jason has pointed out repeatedly, much of the cost goes toward creating a good employment experience for the employees.

As a former leader of an engineering company, one of the things I learned is that there are a lot of engineers out there who are great engineers but lack the business acumen to run a company in an efficient manner. Their comfort zone is designing cool things for their clients.

From the outside looking in, I get the sense that luthiers have similar tendencies. They love to build beautiful instruments, but may not give all the necessary attention to running the business. Jason clearly has experience and expertise in business, and his involvement at Fodera is producing a better operation overall. If I'm not missing my guess I'll bet that, while Jason is all over customer service, he runs a very tight ship on the business end of things.

And Jason, please forgive me for talking about you in the third person.

On the other topic, there are numerous luthiers out there who produce basses of comparable quality to Foderas, and many have excellent customer service. Then there's the grumpy one.
 
No worries Mike!

As many of you know, I came to Fodera rather late in life. I am 44, have played bass since I was 13 and got involved here rather by accident. I was a Fodera customer (like many of you) that became good friends with Vinny and Joey (also like many of you), started researching for a book that I wanted to write about the shop and instead ended up becoming a partner.

I have a business degree from UNC-Chapel Hill and have been involved with the start-up and management of multiple companies -- every one of them far more profitable than Fodera and all of them somewhere between reasonably and wonderfully satisfying (intellectually, financially and managerially). But none of the other companies that I have been involved with ever had anything to do with creating art and that makes a HUGE difference.

When Vinny and Joey first asked for business help I was both thrilled and reluctant. These guys were (and very much still are) my good friends and I did not want to risk that. Additionally, as a business person, I knew very well that getting involved with something that had been run one way for 26+ years and trying to make change was fraught with risks...

The culture of the shop needed to be changed without changing much of what actually made it so wonderful.

The way the business was managed needed to be changed without going so far as to make it become "corporate."

The scale of the company needed to be increased to get to profitability without growing so much that we no longer had the time to respect each customer and their instruments as unique.

The company needed an infusion of a LOT of money and yet it was vital that Vinny and Joey's equity stake in the business remained significant.

Several long-time work associates of mine and I were going to need to spend an incredible about of time and energy working to turn things around and yet there would be no money (initially) to compensate us for doing so.

I could go on and on with all of the "red flags" that we enumerated and thought through as we made our "go / no-go" decision back in the summer of 2009. At the end of the day even though everyone in the room making this decision was a seasoned business person with years of analytical thinking under our belts, the final decision was made with our hearts. We felt strongly, and still do, that Fodera was an American icon that needed to continue being part of our cultural landscape.

Yes, our margins are very thin now, but 2011 was actually the shop's first year with any real measurable profit (for 2011 we were at far LESS than 10%). Over time we'd like to get those margins up to more reasonable / sustainable levels, but again there are those paradoxical relationships that must be kept in mind...prices and volume can only increase to certain levels without threatening the very spirit of what we do here. We are also very much committed to NOT raising prices at rates that are faster than the increases that we are experiencing for our costs.

Fortunately, we are all very long-term oriented and I think one of the best things we did was to set down from day one that what we all wanted to achieve with this partnership was to create a sustainable, vibrant company so that our grandchildren would be able to play Foderas at the same (or better) quality level than what the shop was producing before we became partners.

For those of you that know the shop well, thus far we believe that we are correctly striking those ever-so-delicate balances. I am certain that from time to time we will take a misstep, but if / when we do, we have an incredible number of people that care as much about Fodera as we do and they are never shy about letting us know what they think!

Kindest regards,

Jason

While you'll pay more for a Fodera than most other brands, not that much is for the name. As Jason has pointed out repeatedly, much of the cost goes toward creating a good employment experience for the employees.

As a former leader of an engineering company, one of the things I learned is that there are a lot of engineers out there who are great engineers but lack the business acumen to run a company in an efficient manner. Their comfort zone is designing cool things for their clients.

From the outside looking in, I get the sense that luthiers have similar tendencies. They love to build beautiful instruments, but may not give all the necessary attention to running the business. Jason clearly has experience and expertise in business, and his involvement at Fodera is producing a better operation overall. If I'm not missing my guess I'll bet that, while Jason is all over customer service, he runs a very tight ship on the business end of things.

And Jason, please forgive me for talking about you in the third person.

On the other topic, there are numerous luthiers out there who produce basses of comparable quality to Foderas, and many have excellent customer service. Then there's the grumpy one.
 
No worries Mike!

As many of you know, I came to Fodera rather late in life. I am 44, have played bass since I was 13 and got involved here rather by accident. I was a Fodera customer (like many of you) that became good friends with Vinny and Joey (also like many of you), started researching for a book that I wanted to write about the shop and instead ended up becoming a partner.

I have a business degree from UNC-Chapel Hill and have been involved with the start-up and management of multiple companies -- every one of them far more profitable than Fodera and all of them somewhere between reasonably and wonderfully satisfying (intellectually, financially and managerially). But none of the other companies that I have been involved with ever had anything to do with creating art and that makes a HUGE difference.

When Vinny and Joey first asked for business help I was both thrilled and reluctant. These guys were (and very much still are) my good friends and I did not want to risk that. Additionally, as a business person, I knew very well that getting involved with something that had been run one way for 26+ years and trying to make change was fraught with risks...

The culture of the shop needed to be changed without changing much of what actually made it so wonderful.

The way the business was managed needed to be changed without going so far as to make it become "corporate."

The scale of the company needed to be increased to get to profitability without growing so much that we no longer had the time to respect each customer and their instruments as unique.

The company needed an infusion of a LOT of money and yet it was vital that Vinny and Joey's equity stake in the business remained significant.

Several long-time work associates of mine and I were going to need to spend an incredible about of time and energy working to turn things around and yet there would be no money (initially) to compensate us for doing so.

I could go on and on with all of the "red flags" that we enumerated and thought through as we made our "go / no-go" decision back in the summer of 2009. At the end of the day even though everyone in the room making this decision was a seasoned business person with years of analytical thinking under our belts, the final decision was made with our hearts. We felt strongly, and still do, that Fodera was an American icon that needed to continue being part of our cultural landscape.

Yes, our margins are very thin now, but 2011 was actually the shop's first year with any real measurable profit (for 2011 we were at far LESS than 10%). Over time we'd like to get those margins up to more reasonable / sustainable levels, but again there are those paradoxical relationships that must be kept in mind...prices and volume can only increase to certain levels without threatening the very spirit of what we do here. We are also very much committed to NOT raising prices at rates that are faster than the increases that we are experiencing for our costs.

Fortunately, we are all very long-term oriented and I think one of the best things we did was to set down from day one that what we all wanted to achieve with this partnership was to create a sustainable, vibrant company so that our grandchildren would be able to play Foderas at the same (or better) quality level than what the shop was producing before we became partners.

For those of you that know the shop well, thus far we believe that we are correctly striking those ever-so-delicate balances. I am certain that from time to time we will take a misstep, but if / when we do, we have an incredible number of people that care as much about Fodera as we do and they are never shy about letting us know what they think!

Kindest regards,

Jason

Thumbs up, Jason! Good customer service experience is priceless. Keep it up, Fodera! :D
 
I appreciate the response but I'm bit confused as to answers..

my question is how much of the price is actually paying for the name.. Like Gucci or Prada or any popular name brand product in the world..

Maybe it was a stupid question and the answer is ofcourse it's just like any other popular product?

Jason told you 10%, I'd bet he's right about it and it's a precise answer...
Fodera are making a 10% profit on each instrument... WAY LESS than 7ender does if u ask me... I won't even talk about "bag sellers or perfumers" their benefits must be way north to 50% :D
 
It actually would have made a wonderful documentary of how to develop a win:win partnership. There was so much concern on all of our parts about protecting both the Company and our friendship that there was a tremendous amount of give and take. I actually found myself insisting on deal points that on the surface went against my own best interests on several occasions to ensure that we would all be as positive about the business deal 10 or 20 years down the road as we were in 2009.

You can only do things like this with a very, very long term focus and with complete trust among everyone at the table...

J

I'll bet that would have been a great Shark Tank episode.
 
During the first 5 months of 2012 we averaged a 10.81% profit margin on everything we did. Some instruments and products have higher margins and some lower, but across the entire business that was the exact number...

Jason told you 10%, I'd bet he's right about it and it's a precise answer...
Fodera are making a 10% profit on each instrument... WAY LESS than 7ender does if u ask me... I won't even talk about "bag sellers or perfumers" their benefits must be way north to 50% :D
 
You can only do things like this with a very, very long term focus and with complete trust among everyone at the table...

J

Without heading too far down the rabbit hole, the failure to plan and execute with a long view (as opposed to next quarter) is a huge part of why many US businesses are in the toilet and decent jobs are gone.
 
Companies develop through various stages of development along multiple lines, such as cognitive, moral, and spiritual, just as individuals do. (See developmental theorists like Maslow, Wilber, Kohlberg, Gilligan, etc.)

The progression usually involves moving from an egocentric worldview- "What's in it for me?"- to one with a larger, more self actualized, more compassionate and inclusive model. "What am I contributing to the benefit of mankind, and how do I go about that in an ethical way that respects the rights of myself, employees, customers, environment, and mankind at large?"

What I see from Fodera is a very high level of development is multiple areas; not only a clearly superior product, but a commitment to collaboration, innovation, sustainability, and integrity. As an artist and consumer, it's important for me that an object I identify with as closely as my instrument exemplifies the values I aspire to, not only as a musician, but as human being. Hopefully this tool produced by a shop which seems very much to be "awake" will allow me to continue on my own journey, and maybe even bring some of that "wakefulness" to my audiences . . . ;)
 
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