Fretless playing question ...

[SteveCS]

that pic seems to show the finger pads behind the lines..I was told they should be right on top of the line...

also..... is it possible to "tune & intonnate" a fretless so that it will be in tune IF your pads are behind the line , so visually it is like playing a fretted bass?

I think it depends on the physical nature of individual fingers. I intonate setup with a credit card, and if I stop a note on the side dot in the same way it is in tune, but my fingertips are very much over the dot. I use very little fingering pressure and don't have thick callouses as a result. I also use rather more pad than tip...

 

[ofajen]

I think what you may find is that your playing technique on fretted bass will align with your fretless playing (just behind the fret) and then the fretless ends up reinforcing precision (no pun intended) in your fretted bass fingering. I'm a somewhat better fretted player for playing some fretless.

I only have the unlined Wishbass, so I don't have experience with lined fretless.

Otto

 

[John Le Guyader]

I agree intonating the bass is very important as a first step. Second, I never understood why fretless basses ever come lined. At best all I've ever needed is side dots. You fingers should fall just about where the side dots are if they are placed there correctly. When I first was learning upright, I put pencil marks where the side dots should be until I was comfortable enough to erase them. Play with a tuner clipped and on so you can always see where you finger is landing (sharp or flat). Good luck.

 

[SteveCS]

Yes it is but the caveat is you have to play exactly where your fingers were at when intonating and gives more room for error because you are estimating where the middle would be. I did this with a fret less in high school because I was used to fretted basses so there was almost no transition in a sense. It is possible but not entirely effective

I would say not because errors will accumulate as you move away from the setpoint. If you move your finger towards the nut to get more behind the line you will intonate sharp. As you go up the neck you will get progressively further away from the line, and as you go towards the nut you will get progressively closer to, or over, it. I think its better to have each dot as close to perfect as possible, then just use the markers as a guide but use your ears to arbitrate.

 

[Deleted member 165050]

This is why I prefer unlined, your fingers have to go to the correct place on a blank board and your ears tell you if you got it right or not. There is no other aid. Which makes it tricky playing unlined fretless on a dark stage with bad monitoring

 

[silvertone]

Side Dots can at the least - provide some useful orientation - but in general:
YOU SHOULD NOT BE LOOKING AT THE FINGERBOARD WHILE PLAYING FRETLESS BASS.

Use your ears and make those micro-tonal adjustments in real time without looking.
This is the way forward.... Avoid crutches.

 

[Josh Kneisel]

Hey all,

I've recently purchased my first fretless bass after playing fretted basses for 30+ years.

Before I decided to invest big money into a high end axe, I bought a Squire VM fretless.
I noticed that to play in tune, I have to press down almost literally right on the fretline of the note I want to play and the following note .... Is this normal for fretless basses that have fret markers in the neck? Will I find this with pretty much any fretless I buy that has fret markers? ... If so I may consider returning the bass and buying one with no fret markers, just a plain unmarked neck.

Any feedback or advice on this would be appreciated - Thanks

Ya the note has to be stopped where the fret would be to be in tune. On a fretted bass the fret does the intonating for you.

 

[Josh Kneisel]

Mostly just trust your ear

 

[David Sutkin]

Play with a tuner clipped and on so you can always see where you finger is landing (sharp or flat). Good luck.

Simple idea but a great one, thanks!

 

[kalle74]

Whether you are in tune on a fretless or not, is not dictated by setting the intonation, but by where you place your fingers on the board. Violins and double basses don't have adjustable intonation on their bridges. Those instruments rely on the player's ability to find the right notes. So does fretless bass. However, if you are playing a lined board, intonating the bass correctly will give your fingers a pretty solid "reference point" on the fingerboard on every "fret". Unlined board with side dots, lined board... Whatever works for you. Also, I find the idea of *not looking at the neck* quite stupid. If it helps you play better and more in tune, go for it. Eventually, once you get more experienced with fretless, you'll find yourself gawking less and less at your fingers.

 

[SteveCS]

Whether you are in tune on a fretless or not, is not dictated by setting the intonation, but by where you place your fingers on the board. Violins and double basses don't have adjustable intonation on their bridges. Those instruments rely on the player's ability to find the right notes...

Which in the early years involves placing markers in the fingerboard. Plus, viol family have many more physical landmarks than an electric bass...
Here's a 4/4 Cello and my Corvette for comparison...

 

[Mushroo]

I've been playing fretless now for, gosh, about 25 years. One thing I've noticed is that it's given me more accuracy and better tone on fretted bass.

I agree that setting up the instrument is very important. First you want to get the action just right for your desired tone. For me it is a medium-low action with plenty of "mwah." Then you want to set the intonation. This is a topic of debate, with more than one "correct" approach. Here is my philosophy: I set the intonation with the bass in actual playing position, using my fingers, in relationship to the fret lines based on how I play. Some people will tell you to lay the bass flat on a bench, or use a credit card, etc. and I see the logic of that. But for me, I want the intonation so that I will sound as in tune as possible, playing with my real-world technique.

 

[Pirate Captain]

I've got an unlined (Tony Franklin sig) fretless and the side dots are "on" the 1/3/5 etc. I find lines confusing and don't understand why anybody would choose to have them for anything other than aesthetic reasons.

and don't just "trust" your ear..."train" it

(I know too many players WITH frets who've got tin ears)

 

[big_fundamental]

I picked up fretless recently myself. I always fretted notes on a bass with frets just behind the fret anyway. This made the notes cleaner with less finger pressure required. For me the dots and lines on my fretless look close to my fretted bass so going back and forth between basses is simplified. Interesting what different players prefer, the right answer is what helps you play in tune. I look at my board playing fretless quite a bit but I am not struggling with intonation. Planning to continue to play fretted. The frets are starting to feel wierd though, gotta say.

 

[JRA]

Any feedback or advice on this would be appreciated - Thanks

i think your impulse towards unlined fretless playing is correct. go with unlined and save yourself that part of the learning curve! good luck!

 

[Doner Designs]

If you think about what physically happens with frets, even though you press down between the frets, the contact point for the string is at/on the actual fret which is where the line is on a lined fretless. With unlined fretless, the side dots are usually placed where the lines/frets would be.

One thing that really threw me of with my unlined fretless is that the side dots are where the frets would be on all except the 12th fret. For the 12th you have to fret midway between the two dots. Eventually I ended up checking the scale with a tape measure to prove it to myself. It's a Warmoth neck. Not sure if they are all like that.

 

[Sam Dingle]

Edit; I just said what the guy above me said haha.

 

[40Hz]

Use your ears and use the lines only as an approximate reference point. Your fingertips have a larger contact area than a fret does, so how your fingers make contact and stop the notes will affect the intonation, as will the height of the action on your instrument.

Listen carefully to what you're playing and check frequently against a tuner when you're first starting out just to be sure the notes are right.

One reason some fretless players don't like lined necks is because they're more a distraction and source of confusion for them than anything else.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

Just a friendly reminder that it's a Squier, not a Squire.

Now you can fix your signature.

 

[SteveCS]

Just a friendly reminder that it's a Squier, not a Squire.

Now you can fix your signature.

I honestly don't think any of the contributors thus far give a toss about that kind of thing...
;-)