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Fretless playing question ...

And OP,


The point is the capo supplies a constant, set amount of pressure... and it works better the closer you get to the fret, since... the closer you get to the fret, the less pressure you need.

I fail to see your point, please elaborate.

I know that you do. Simple question... do you fret with the force AND precision of a capo?

Are you a betting man? I guarantee that I can fret my basses in the same area of the capo without the negative effects that you still think are unavoidable. Because my hands aren't capos.
:D

Playing bass is not about applying a consistent amount of pressure like a machine. The very fact that someone could offer up a demo that is as thoughtless as yours AND that some might think that it has a real bearing on a human playing an instrument is sad IMO. People who don't know better might buy into this and that's really what bothers me. Was the string fretted to the fingerboard with the capo?

I have no doubt that you mean well but damn...
:hmm:
 
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Side Dots can at the least - provide some useful orientation - but in general:
YOU SHOULD NOT BE LOOKING AT THE FINGERBOARD WHILE PLAYING FRETLESS BASS.

Use your ears and make those micro-tonal adjustments in real time without looking.
This is the way forward.... Avoid crutches.
You must mean"You should not be looking at THE TOP of the fingerboard..........."
Side dots are there for that.

Anyway.EVERYONE looks.
Especially those who play complex music.

Also,making small adjustments is doable IF you dwell on a note long enough.
If you're playing rapid sixteenth notes,there is no time to analyze the intonation and make a correction.
 
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I know that you do. Simple question... do you fret with the force AND precision of a capo?

Are you a betting man? I guarantee that I can fret my basses in the same area of the capo without the negative effects that you still think are unavoidable. Because my hands aren't capos.
:D

Playing bass is not about applying a consistent amount of pressure like a machine. The very fact that someone could offer up a demo that is as thoughtless as yours AND that some might think that it has a real bearing on a human playing an instrument is sad IMO. People who don't know better might buy into this and that's really what bothers me. Was the string fretted to the fingerboard with the capo?

I have no doubt that you mean well but damn...
:meh:

Uh, yes, one can try to achieve the force and precision of a capo. Believe it or not, many great players have worked on optimizing the amount of pressure needed to play notes properly. It's efficiency, and in doing so you can play faster and more accurately. Any player that has achieved a high level has studied efficiency, consciously or not, some are born with more speed and agility than others, but it's all efficiency in the end.

The demo was to show, as predicted, and as known by many, that the further you move from the fret, the more pressure is needed to play a note properly. I'm not sure if you a) don't care, b) don't understand why using more pressure than necessary is undesirable, or c) don't understand the experiment at all. You seem strangely concerned with the method, as if I don't understand you can just push down harder to get a good note out further behind a fret. I understand that! I really do! You shouldn't have to push down any harder than necessary- to prevent wasting energy, simply push down closer to the fret! That's the point of the demo!

I also really, truly understand you have a bass with extremely low action and can get satisfactory results further off the fret. That doesn't mean the concept of efficiency couldn't be used to get even faster and more articulate, maybe even on your bass. If those aren't goals of yours, so be it, but the facts I've presented don't change.

To accuse me of purposely misleading people is absolutely bizarre. I don't know how relaying factual information, and demonstrating it in action, is harmful. If you're expecting me to throw my hands up and say, "aw shucks, you're right, just fret any old place, it doesn't matter," THEN I would be spreading misinformation. My only intention, from my first post onward, was to inform people of the most efficient fretting technique possible, since it seemed like there was a bit of confusion on that. Still seems like that for some, but I sincerely hope my posts and demo have reached and helped someone.

OP, congrats on the bass, that thing is badass, I declare this hijacking over, didn't intend it from the get go :)
 
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I don't think you're trying to mislead, Nick. And I didn't say it despite your assumptions. They're frankly self serving and not very bright. For example when did I say I have extremely low action? That's just one more thing you couldn't help pulling out of your nether regions.Why? I'm typing in fairly plain English yet you repeatedly make stuff up to support your stuff. As someone who mentions facts, you're a stranger to them.

At this point I think that the only voice you're willing to listen to is your own. So go right ahead with your idea that capo like pressure is desirable and your complete inability to understand how developing a lighter touch could be beneficial. You've made your position very clear. I'll just chalk my results up to a series of improper flukes. And yours to physics.
:D
 
Wow. Way too many posts to read.

For me, the lines were a visual/mental problem, as I go back to fretted on other songs. I'm not quite good enough to play without visual reference, and I just couldn't wrap my head around stopping on the lines vs. between them.

My unlined fretless, Fender Imprecision Bass, has dots where the fretlines would be. That... I can figure out.

EXACTLY where I'm coming from. After 30 years of playing pretty much solidly right in the middle of the frets, now to all of a sudden need to play right up on the line (or pretty close) is going to require a learning curve. If I'm going to put the time in, I think it might be easier to just go with an unlined neck .... I was actually considering this beauty:
View attachment 1118365

that pic seems to show the finger pads behind the lines..I was told they should be right on top of the line...

also..... is it possible to "tune & intonnate" a fretless so that it will be in tune IF your pads are behind the line , so visually it is like playing a fretted bass?

If you are fretting in the middle between frets on a fretted bass you are using bad technique and wasting energy since just behind the fret almost on top of the fret is where it takes the least pressure.

I hate dots where the frets should be since I'm used to fretless with dots where they should be. Either you want lines or you don't. Unlined looks better but I'm used to lined and just use as a general position reference.

I agree that photo looks wrong. I have very fat finger pads so it spreads the contact surface. You've got to learn to rotate your finger to micro adjust intonation and using vibrato helps with this IMHO but of course you can use finger rotation or sliding if you want a very wide vibrato.

It's just a different animal than fretted bass.
 
Wow. Way too many posts to read.

For me, the lines were a visual/mental problem, as I go back to fretted on other songs. I'm not quite good enough to play without visual reference, and I just couldn't wrap my head around stopping on the lines vs. between them.

My unlined fretless, Fender Imprecision Bass, has dots where the fretlines would be. That... I can figure out.

EXACTLY where I'm coming from. After 30 years of playing pretty much solidly right in the middle of the frets, now to all of a sudden need to play right up on the line (or pretty close) is going to require a learning curve. If I'm going to put the time in, I think it might be easier to just go with an unlined neck .... I was actually considering this beauty:
View attachment 1118365

that pic seems to show the finger pads behind the lines..I was told they should be right on top of the line...

also..... is it possible to "tune & intonnate" a fretless so that it will be in tune IF your pads are behind the line , so visually it is like playing a fretted bass?

If you are fretting in the middle between frets on a fretted bass you are using bad technique and wasting energy since just behind the fret almost on top of the fret is where it takes the least pressure.

I hate dots where the frets should be since I'm used to fretless with dots where they should be. Either you want lines or you don't. Unlined looks better but I'm used to lined and just use as a general position reference.

I agree that photo looks wrong. I have very fat finger pads so it spreads the contact surface. You've got to learn to rotate your finger to micro adjust intonation and using vibrato helps with this IMHO but of course you can use finger rotation or sliding if you want a very wide vibrato.

It's just a different animal than fretted bass.
Re: playing in the middle of the fret being "bad technique", does this guy have bad technique?

 
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Are you implying that a tort pickgaurd changes the tone of the bass?

Absolutely. This is due to quantum superposition in which the superior acoustical properties of the tort exist in a shared Hilbert Space encompassing both the pickguard and the instrument it is attached to. In this Space the probability of aligned modulation approaches unity.
 
Looks like a very similar neck to mine. Birdseye maple with rosewood board. Hopefully your board is hard than mine. I bought mine second hand and the wear was pretty bad so I got a good luthier to level it. When he started levelling the board he said that it was the softest piece of rosewood he'd ever worked on..... so there's a good chance that yours will be harder. He ended up epoxying the board and refinishing the neck. It's now the best neck i've ever played..... and the birdseye maple looks so good!
 

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