Fretless Side Dots

[bobyoung53]

I suppose you could get them for every half-step if that would suit you better. Local luthiers might find that a quick and easy job.

Older Rickenbackers have them every half step all the way up.

 

[bobyoung53]

You have landmark guides on an unlined and unmarked fretless bass as well.

The heel of the neck. The cutaways. The horns.

The neck is also flatter than on an upright, so that you’re able to maintain position easier. Since your plucking hand and fretting hand are closer together, you’re less likely to have your left hand drift out of position.

An upright neck meets the body at about the 5, about the B or maybe C on the E string, it's easier on an upright to use landmarks, as the part of the neck before it meets the body is much shorter comparatively. It's much harder after the neck joint though.

 

[g-dude]

An upright neck meets the body at about the 5, about the B or maybe C on the E string, it's easier on an upright to use landmarks, as the part of the neck before it meets the body is much shorter comparatively. It's much harder after the neck joint though.

So my double bass has a D neck - others typically have an Eb. It’s basically what note you’d be about at the heel on the G string, so really the octave from the next lower string.

Here’s the thing: the muscle memory is far more useful than the landmark, and I say this because when I got my current bass, I had to transition from a D neck to an Eb. I mean, I say I had to transition, but I really didn’t, as my hand just fell in the right place naturally.

The region between where the heel is and where the fingerboard is no longer supported by the neck is actually a pretty comfortable place to play, despite the fact that while you do have landmarks, if you depend on them you’ll be off on your intonation. The key is to not focus on them.

The big thing is to find the octave on each string. As long as you know where that is, you’ll never be too lost.

The other thing is that if you hear that you are flat, lift your elbow. If you’re sharp, drop it.

When it comes to playing pizzicato, it’s a lot more forgiving as it relates to intonation errors. Playing arco is unforgiving, and you might have plenty of time to hear how your intonation is off.

 

[bobyoung53]

True, but reputable companies of fretless builders putting dots in between frets are few and far between. There are exceptions but you usually only see that on Vintage Fenders and on cheap import basses (Glarry...) where they maker makes a fretless by just leaving off the frets. The industry has moved well away from the practice.

I had a fretless P bass and it was one of the first made, probably a 1969-70 rosewood neck and the dots were right on 3rd 5th 7th etc like most of their others. I have never seen a Fender fretless with dots between the notes, although I did read here today that the Jaco bass was made that way, that's one more reason for me to never buy one.

 

[bobyoung53]

So my double bass has a D neck - others typically have an Eb. It’s basically what note you’d be about at the heel on the G string, so really the octave from the next lower string.

Here’s the thing: the muscle memory is far more useful than the landmark, and I say this because when I got my current bass, I had to transition from a D neck to an Eb. I mean, I say I had to transition, but I really didn’t, as my hand just fell in the right place naturally.

The region between where the heel is and where the fingerboard is no longer supported by the neck is actually a pretty comfortable place to play, despite the fact that while you do have landmarks, if you depend on them you’ll be off on your intonation. The key is to not focus on them.

The big thing is to find the octave on each string. As long as you know where that is, you’ll never be too lost.

The other thing is that if you hear that you are flat, lift your elbow. If you’re sharp, drop it.

When it comes to playing pizzicato, it’s a lot more forgiving as it relates to intonation errors. Playing arco is unforgiving, and you might have plenty of time to hear how your intonation is off.

I was about right then, it's been about 10 years since I played upright, miss it though and yeah I used the octaves, overtone etc. I played rock and roll and rockabilly so never touched a bow, probably a good thing but my intonation was pretty good. I thought intonation on an upright was easier than on a fretless bass to tell you the truth.

 

[Eilif]

I had a fretless P bass and it was one of the first made, probably a 1969-70 rosewood neck and the dots were right on 3rd 5th 7th etc like most of their others. I have never seen a Fender fretless with dots between the notes, although I did read here today that the Jaco bass was made that way, that's one more reason for me to never buy one.

It's been over a decade so I could be wrong, but I thought I saw that dot pattern on a 60's Fender Precision at CME.

The Jaco bass wouldn't be too weird to have dots in the positions a fretted would be because you'd have fretlines in the right places, so the dots would probably draw your eye the same as they would on a fretted.

 

[40Hz]

If you really don't miss notes on your unlined fretless then yes you deserve respect for the extra work that took and dare I say the natural talent you may possess.

I don’t get that premise at all. I can respect a perfectly executed musical passage. But I can’t say I ever really cared if it took the person a minute or a year to pull it off. Well done is well done. What they had to do to make it happen is more their business than it is any of mine.

No one would deny that there is something inherently impressive about an unlined fretless player.

I never saw the benefit of doing anything in a manner that made it more difficult to execute than might otherwise have been necessary. Some people pride themselves on working hard. I’m more likely to admire someone who chose to “work smart.” But I was never one to think there was much virtue to be found wallowing in unnecessary complications or difficulties. Doing things the hard way purely for the sake of it being hard seems like a huge waste of human time and effort. I just can’t see the need for all that drama.

But maybe this is all just me.

 

[bobyoung53]

It's been over a decade so I could be wrong, but I thought I saw that dot pattern on a 60's Fender Precision at CME.

The Jaco bass wouldn't be too weird to have dots in the positions a fretted would be because you'd have fretlines in the right places, so the dots would probably draw your eye the same as they would on a fretted.

If it was a 60's bass it would have had to be a converted one, they didn't make them until late 1969 but yeah I didn't think of the lines on a Jaco, I don't use them so didn't even think of them. Nothing against them but I learned on an unlined P bass, I don't think I ever saw a lined fretless until I bought a fretless Jazz sometime in the 90's and it was a big surprise to me as I had ordered it unseen.

 

[bobyoung53]

Wow! Great story!!! Sorry to hear about the beginning, but it sure ended up about as nice as you can get! Despite my appreciation and preference for unlined boards, I do like the trend I’m seeing that you mentions with just the tiny little ghost lines on the side. I think it’s Sandburg that does that, then at the 12th the tiny lines transition across the fingerboard and the last octave is on the treble side. Looks really slick. Adamovic and a few others may be doing it like that now, I forget. But it looks cool. Never played one with that, but I can’t see it being a playability or stability issue.

I have a beat mid 60's Hohner fretless with those ghostlines on the E string side. Mine is NOWHERE near being as nice as this one is.

 

[g-dude]

I was about right then, it's been about 10 years since I played upright, miss it though and yeah I used the octaves, overtone etc. I played rock and roll and rockabilly so never touched a bow, probably a good thing but my intonation was pretty good. I thought intonation on an upright was easier than on a fretless bass to tell you the truth.

If you’re off by a half centimeter on the upright, you definitely are closer in tune due to the longer scale length.

I suspect some of it is also the fact that with the double bass you focus so much on positions (at least if you use the standard methods that are taught), and you don’t use one finger per “fret” until you cross over into thumb position.

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

I had a fretless P bass and it was one of the first made, probably a 1969-70 rosewood neck and the dots were right on 3rd 5th 7th etc like most of their others. I have never seen a Fender fretless with dots between the notes, although I did read here today that the Jaco bass was made that way, that's one more reason for me to never buy one.

My G&L lined jazz fl has dots between the fretlines like fretted bass. It doesn't take but a few minutes to adjust.

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

It's been over a decade so I could be wrong, but I thought I saw that dot pattern on a 60's Fender Precision at CME.

The Jaco bass wouldn't be too weird to have dots in the positions a fretted would be because you'd have fretlines in the right places, so the dots would probably draw your eye the same as they would on a fretted.

That's pretty much my experience with my lined fl with dots between frets.

 

[bobyoung53]

My G&L lined jazz fl has dots between the fretlines like fretted bass. It doesn't take but a few minutes to adjust.

I played with the dots on the notes for so long that when I bought one with dots between the notes (unknown to me) I sold it shortly after, drove me crazy.

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

I played with the dots on the notes for so long that when I bought one with dots between the notes (unknown to me) I sold it shortly after, drove me crazy.

I've been playing fretless less than two years so maybe that's why it seems like no big deal.

 

[bobyoung53]

I've been playing fretless less than two years so maybe that's why it seems like no big deal.

Yeah I was PO'ed, it was a special order Ric Blueboy, I should have just had a luthier change it but oh well.....

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

Yeah I was PO'ed, it was a special order Ric Blueboy, I should have just had a luthier change it but oh well.....

shouldawouldacoulda.
But a blue boy?
I've never seen an fl blue boy.

 

[bobyoung53]

shouldawouldacoulda.
But a blue boy?
I've never seen an fl blue boy.

Yup I special ordered it in I think 2003 or whenever that color was offered and waited months for it. I was an idiot to sell it.

 

[drumvsbass]

I’ve also been playing fretless for over 20 years so I know just how simple or not it is.

I've been playing bass for 34 years and fretless for 27 years, and I can say, you're wrong, because I used to think like that. I played a lined board for 24 of those 27, and wish I had switched sooner. Now that I have a blank board, I see how wrong I was. Lines allow one to use their eyes INSTEAD of training their ears and muscle memory. Once one takes that away they are actually forced to use their ears, and proper hand position, and HEAR in tune instead of seeing if they are in tune or not. It's as plain as day to me now. 5 years ago I would have been on the other side of the fence.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

I've been playing bass for 34 years and fretless for 27 years, and I can say, you're wrong, because I used to think like that. I played a lined board for 24 of those 27, and wish I had switched sooner. Now that I have a blank board, I see how wrong I was. Lines allow one to use their eyes INSTEAD of training their ears and muscle memory. Once one takes that away they are actually forced to use their ears, and proper hand position, and HEAR in tune instead of seeing if they are in tune or not. It's as plain as day to me now. 5 years ago I would have been on the other side of the fence.

Hey, some people can’t chew gum and walk at the same time. That’s fine. It may be true that you weren’t training your muscle memory and ears while using your eyes, but that’s completely on you, not the instrument. You can’t blame an inanimate object for making you do or not do something. You would have better ears and muscle memory than anyone who stares at the fretboard and/or uses lines if that was true (staring at the fretboard is not unique to having lines). As I said, if you think that they’re training wheels and inhibit you I’d love to see you go up in a “bike race” against Gary Willis. People should absolutely use unlined instruments if they think they look better or they just like them better or are more comfortable in them. But thinking these inanimate objects train our senses better than other otherwise identical inanimate objects is just the result of poor critical thinking and/or ego.

 

[drumvsbass]

Hey, some people can’t chew gum and walk at the same time. That’s fine. It may be true that you weren’t training your muscle memory and ears while using your eyes, but that’s completely on you, not the instrument. You can’t blame an inanimate object for making you do or not do something. You would have better ears and muscle memory than anyone who stares at the fretboard and/or uses lines if that was true (staring at the fretboard is not unique to having lines). As I said, if you think that they’re training wheels and inhibit you I’d love to see you go up in a “bike race” against Gary Willis. People should absolutely use unlined instruments if they think they look better or they just like them better or are more comfortable in them. But thinking these inanimate objects train our senses better than other otherwise identical inanimate objects is just the result of poor critical thinking and/or ego.

Hmm... If we're talking show horses, there's no lines on Micheal Manrings fretless... He seems to do fine. When was the last time you spent a year with an unlined fretless? Trying to talk enlightenment without meditation.