Genz Benz Shuttle 9.0 discussion thread

[svtb15]

I think they were either a 1212 or a 1210. They were small.. The Shuttle 9 through one would utterly kill..
Because one side of the MAX12 was killing in a great way. Just love that head..
There is nothing that i wish for with that MAx.. It just delivers...
The rental Schroeder sounded real nice but not really bottomy enough. I had to do a little EQ to get what i wanted. But thats why i am almost settled on the thought of Uber 210s. TO get that growl and mid punch of a 10 but the bottom of the Uber..
Just woke up ,and perhaps still dreaming.. Coffee time.. 4 shot Latte, no gigs today so i can Caffeine it up some.

Do you know what Schroeder cabs they were. I think a 9.0 through a 1212 would be a great set up.

 

[chicago_mike]

I hope to pick up my shuttle 9.0 next week. Can't wait!

 

[svtb15]

I have used my Shuttle 9 on many different cabs, and so far it seems to really work well with just about anything..

pick up my shuttle 9.0 next week. Can't wait!

 

[Jarrett]

No way you can run that amp dimed. Prolly hearing the speakers overdrive/compress.
For giggles I hooked up my Shuttle 9.0 just into my 8 ohm SWR Golight 2x10 tonight and played for a while. I would not dare dime the master. I could only imagine how bad that would sound, with things on the verge of flying apart.

I find a have to cut at 150hz and dial the low knob back as well to get what I consider a clear tone.Once in that setting, I really like the sound of the amp, its just set like that I am really leaving a lot of volume on the table. After going back and looking at my other amps I find this a little strange as I set my other amps mostly flat

I did a gig tonight on rental gear.. The Shuttle Shinned so well through those . I did have to EQ a little though.. With some bass boost and some mid cut. Which i never do...

I did some more tweaking this weekend and I think its the Ashdown cab that's causing me to EQ funky. When I just run the Shuttle 9.0 through the Golight 2x10, I can run the EQ knobs flat with just the mid scoop button engaged. EQ on the bass is flat as well. I still run both volumes dimed and gain around 1-2 o'clock. Really digging the sound.

I tried running just the Shuttle 9.0 (dimed) and Golight 2x10 at practice for the loudest band I play with and it held up OK. I think with a 4ohm 4x10, it would be perfect for this group. The 2x10/9.0 is plenty for the other groups I'm with. We recorded the practice using a cheap camcorder. I ripped the audio from the AVIs down to MP3. That's probably the worst recording process I can think of but I liked what I heard despite that. The Shuttle 9.0 just flat sounds good, imo.

Here is a clip:

Link Removed

Again, not a good recording, but you gives an idea and can also get a sense of the volume of the drummer in this band Going to try and come up with a better way to record practices. Any input is definitely welcome.

 

[nostatic]

I don't really hear any lo-mid or mid punch from that. I know the bass sounds "good" when solo'd, but this is a problem with "contour" switches that scoop the mid. I think they basically are like a magic wand that makes the bass disappear in the mix.

The drummer sounds stupid-loud. Give him some hot rods and maybe a valium.

 

[Jarrett]

I don't really hear any lo-mid or mid punch from that.

Do you have any examples of what you are talking about that I can listen to?

 

[nostatic]

Any Motown album

In all seriousness, it really depends on what sound you like. But what I've found is that the scooped "modern" tone tends to totally get lost unless the bass is the lead instrument and other instruments eq accordingly. I think you need to have a lot of power and push a lot of air to have the lows and highs cut through the mix - and asking that from a single 2-10 cab just ain't gonna work. You really need either a pair of 2-10s or a 4-10 imho.

For an example of more lo-mid and mid punch, plug a p-bass into a TC RH450 and RS210 cab. Gobs of mid grunt. But that is pretty much the anti-hi-fi tone. Just depends on what you want. Your band sounds like a classic rock power trio, and there is a reason a lot of bass players did p-basses through SVTs. There is no single "right" answer though...

 

[Jarrett]

Any Motown album. plug a p-bass into a TC RH450 and RS210 cab. there is a reason a lot of bass players did p-basses through SVTs.

Yeah, that's exactly the sound I'm not going for and one of the reasons I didn't buy the RH450.

Your band sounds like a classic rock power trio

LOL, so funny. That made my day

 

[nostatic]

Yeah, that's exactly the sound I'm not going for and one of the reasons I didn't buy the RH450.

Understood. That's why they make different amps. But that is an example of a lo-mid/mid punch combination.

LOL, so funny. That made my day

Hope it wasn't taken as a swipe - I didn't mean "classic" in a "classic rock" sense. I meant that from a instrumentation mix. It certainly isn't smooth jazz

 

[VroomVroom]

Just a guess here, but I'd be interested in hearing the same rig without the mid-scoop. What's the volume setting on the bass (sorry if I missed that earlier)? If you find it's a bit too mid-happy without the scoop engaged, I'd try boosting the lows on your bass a bit. I'd bet this might give you the tone you're after, with ample cut to get through the guitar and drums in the mix.

Without something to compare, I can only guess at the volume. However, if I ran my 9.0 at those levels, I'd be fired for sure. I've driven a 14-piece R&B band with this head and two Aguilar GS-112's...in a large ballroom with no bass reinforcement. Volume on the bass (active Mike Lull M5V) was ~ 7/10, and on the amp both the pre and master volume settings were @ Noon (5/10).

 

[Red Planet]

I did some more tweaking this weekend and I think its the Ashdown cab that's causing me to EQ funky. When I just run the Shuttle 9.0 through the Golight 2x10, I can run the EQ knobs flat with just the mid scoop button engaged. EQ on the bass is flat as well. I still run both volumes dimed and gain around 1-2 o'clock. Really digging the sound.

I tried running just the Shuttle 9.0 (dimed) and Golight 2x10 at practice for the loudest band I play with and it held up OK. I think with a 4ohm 4x10, it would be perfect for this group. The 2x10/9.0 is plenty for the other groups I'm with. We recorded the practice using a cheap camcorder. I ripped the audio from the AVIs down to MP3. That's probably the worst recording process I can think of but I liked what I heard despite that. The Shuttle 9.0 just flat sounds good, imo.

Here is a clip:

Link Removed

Again, not a good recording, but you gives an idea and can also get a sense of the volume of the drummer in this band Going to try and come up with a better way to record practices. Any input is definitely welcome.

I usually (lately) run with the mid scoop and bass boost on. I prefer some mids but we have so much competing for the mids with guitar and keys. Not my preferred tone but it works.

Now concerning your having to dime the inputs, I just do not get that. Is your input clip light coming on? I use a passive 51 P Bass with the single coil and I run the input gain and volume at halfway on both. I also run the master at about 1:00.

This is usually with one 8 ohm cab. Most of the time I use either the Golight 2x10 or Golight 1x15. I have the Golight 4 ohm 4x10 as well. You might try adding the Golight 1x15 to the 2x10 you have. I find I like the punch of the small 2x10 and the bottom woolly booger of the 1x15. I take the 2x10 for the smallest venues, the 1x15 for bigger stuff and both when I need the 4 ohm insane volume. This also allows me to leave a cab here or there also.

 

[Red Planet]

Also with the Mid scoop the perceived cut through the mix/loudness is way less.

 

[Eublet]

There's so much that goes into a good live sound that often times it's not the bass that's the issue, but everyone else. For example I refuse to play regularly with guitarists using ported cabs. It's just no fun for me or for them. Complete mud.

Ultra low extended bass is a big culprit. The lowest instrument in the mix should be the kick drum. Bass should be just above that in the 80-150 hz range. That's not to say there won't be highs in the mix, but that area is what translates to a solid foundation. Then you want enough upper mid to provide note distinction and pitch. This area is often the hardest because it competes with guitar and keys. (Side note: if the keyboardist has a left hand, tell him to put it in his pocket and play with something else if he needs to). The next thing is a good treble response that IMO should sit just under the cymbals.

Other than that, it's really about creating some sonic space for everyone to have a voice. If your key player is playing octave roots with their left hand, don't expect your bass to be heard. If they're trying to cover all the harmonic detail in every chord they play, expect not to be heard. Same goes for guitarists playing 5 and 6 note bar chords all night. Horrible to have to deal with all that, but it's pretty normal it seems for weekend players.

Understanding textures in music is usually the last thing anyone learns, and most people never really begin. It's easy to tell folks that they should listen for the final product, but most folks are so busy concentrating on their own playing that it all just comes out sounding like one big noise.

Sound engineers take a lot of flaming here on TB, but a good one is worth their weight in gold. They may have to be a bit diplomatic about it, but if they can get the band to work with them chances are the stage mix will benefit along with FOH.

Lastly, as much as I like to stand in front of a big stage rig, I'd prefer to play with in-ears any day of the week if it's done correctly. It's incredibly inspiring and I can hear anything I want. Trying to replicate that level of detail in a bass rig during a performance just never works IMHO, but if I have that expectation going into it then everything is okay.

 

[Jarrett]

Hope it wasn't taken as a swipe - I didn't mean "classic" in a "classic rock" sense. I meant that from a instrumentation mix. It certainly isn't smooth jazz

Nah, all good, just made me laugh. I told the guitar player as well and thought it was funny too

What's the volume setting on the bass?

For that recording it was my '93 Warwick Streamer Stage I with the preamp bypassed. Bartonlini soapbars, volume full, pickup selection leaning slightly towards the neck pickup.

However, if I ran my 9.0 at those levels, I'd be fired for sure.

Yeah, this rig would be plenty for any of my other gigs.

Is your input clip light coming on?

Yes, in the lower registers, but anywhere with sufficient attack.

You might try adding the Golight 1x15 to the 2x10 you have. I find I like the punch of the small 2x10 and the bottom woolly booger of the 1x15. I take the 2x10 for the smallest venues, the 1x15 for bigger stuff and both when I need the 4 ohm insane volume. This also allows me to leave a cab here or there also.

If I can find a dealer that has them I will definitely give it a whirl, thanks.

For example I refuse to play regularly with guitarists using ported cabs. It's just no fun for me or for them. Complete mud.

When I gig on guitar I use closed back cabs unless I'm just going to FOH only.

The lowest instrument in the mix should be the kick drum. Bass should be just above that in the 80-150 hz range. The next thing is a good treble response that IMO should sit just under the cymbals.

Aside from the cut at 600 hz (mid scoop) those are the ranges I'm putting out from this rig.

My only concern at this point is Red Planet saying that he cannot dime his amp into a Golight 2x10. This makes me concerned mine is not putting out enough power. I just fired up the amp and ran the following:

'93 Warwick Streamer Stage I with the preamp bypassed. Bartonlini soapbars, volume full, pickup selection leaning slightly towards the neck pickup.

Shuttle 9.0:
Gain: 1-2 o'clock
Volume: Dimed
Bass: Noon
Mid: Noon
Treble: hair past Noon
No Signal Shape buttons engaged (although I prefer mid scoop on)
MV: Dimed
into Golight 2x10 cab and it sounds great. Input light is blipping now and then, but the speakers are holding up fine. I mean they move forward an eighth of an inch or so on the most powerful low notes, but that's it. No farting out. Just sounds really good to me. But I'm concerned because I'm hearing a fully functional Shuttle 9.0 would be destroying these speakers at those levels. Is that correct?

 

[Jarrett]

I just ran the same bass into my Trace Elliot AH350SMX head then into the same Golight 2x10 cab and I can only get to about 7 on the MV before I start worrying about the speakers. That's about when it appears to get louder than my Shuttle 9.0.

 

[12bass]

What's the EQ setting on the TE?

 

[B String]

Nah, all good, just made me laugh. I told the guitar player as well and thought it was funny too For that recording it was my '93 Warwick Streamer Stage I with the preamp bypassed. Bartonlini soapbars, volume full, pickup selection leaning slightly towards the neck pickup.Yeah, this rig would be plenty for any of my other gigs.Yes, in the lower registers, but anywhere with sufficient attack.If I can find a dealer that has them I will definitely give it a whirl, thanks.
When I gig on guitar I use closed back cabs unless I'm just going to FOH only.Aside from the cut at 600 hz (mid scoop) those are the ranges I'm putting out from this rig.

My only concern at this point is Red Planet saying that he cannot dime his amp into a Golight 2x10. This makes me concerned mine is not putting out enough power. I just fired up the amp and ran the following:

'93 Warwick Streamer Stage I with the preamp bypassed. Bartonlini soapbars, volume full, pickup selection leaning slightly towards the neck pickup.

Shuttle 9.0:
Gain: 1-2 o'clock
Volume: Dimed
Bass: Noon
Mid: Noon
Treble: hair past Noon
No Signal Shape buttons engaged (although I prefer mid scoop on)
MV: Dimed
into Golight 2x10 cab and it sounds great. Input light is blipping now and then, but the speakers are holding up fine. I mean they move forward an eighth of an inch or so on the most powerful low notes, but that's it. No farting out. Just sounds really good to me. But I'm concerned because I'm hearing a fully functional Shuttle 9.0 would be destroying these speakers at those levels. Is that correct?

One issue may be bypassing the preamp with the Barts.
One bass I have has Barts in it with no preamp. The output is
so low that I have to put it through a preamp before my amp
no matter which amp I'm using, or I have to crank the amp.
See what happens when you put the active circuit back in.

Having said that, I'm having a similar problem with my 9.0.
I'm very happy with it but I always feel I'm near the edge
of its volume. This is with a Berg AE210 and an active bass.
The box isn't in any distress at all but I have the gain at
12:00, volume at about 3:00-4:00 and master at 5:00. I don't
want more of the tube influence so I don't want to turn that
volume up any more. It seems like this amp should have MUCH
more headroom at its rated specs, or be breaking up badly if
its being pushed so hard. Again, when I use my Sansamp Para
to drive the power amp through the effects return, the
difference is ridiculous! Really loud with much more headroom
then I need.
I might experiment with a new tube. Maybe I have an issue
with the one in there now. Still a nice amp.

 

[Jarrett]

What's the EQ setting on the TE?

Similar. It's a 12-band graphic EQ, but its around 0db for the lows, -3db ish in the mids, +1db in highs.

One issue may be bypassing the preamp with the Barts. One bass I have has Barts in it with no preamp. The output is so low that I have to put it through a preamp before my amp no matter which amp I'm using, or I have to crank the amp. See what happens when you put the active circuit back in.

Adding the preamp (set flat) adds lows and low mids mostly. I also used my EMG JJ/No preamp based bass for reference and it was slightly hotter/much brighter than the bypassed Barts.

when I use my Sansamp Para to drive the power amp through the effects return, the difference is ridiculous! Really loud with much more headroom then I need. I might experiment with a new tube. Maybe I have an issue with the one in there now. Still a nice amp.

That's really interesting. Wonder what I could use in the return to compare...

 

[agedhorse]

Guys... the gain/volume knob positions doesn't matter. Each designer designs their products with a certain range of gains that apply to the range of knob positions. Depending on the output level of your bass, and your playing style, you could either overdrive the amp with the "volume knob" on 2 or need to turn it up to 8 or 9 to get rated output. This is true of each and every amp on the market.

As an experiment, play with your bass's onboard volume control full up, now turn it down by 1/2. You will need to turn the amp up more to get the same loudness.

 

[Red Planet]

I somehow think these issues are operational.

Jarret I'm going down stairs to duplicate your settings and see what that does. Unfortunately I do not have my 2x10 with me. It's at our Band Leader's house. I only have the 4 ohm 4x10 here with me.

Also while your trying out cabs I suggest you look at the Genz Benz Ubber 2x12 at 4 ohms. That is a cab I'd like to try out.


All I can say is for sure that my Shuttle 9.0 flat out will spank a MarkBass LMIII and send it packing with it's tail between it's legs. The Shuttle 9.0 will flat out spank my 72 Ampeg V4B in Weighted Girth.

There is no doubt the Shuttle 9.0 is a heavy hitter.

I do think the perception of loudness may be different for lots of us. Before getting the Shuttle 9.0 I was using a Preamp into a QSC PLX2 1804 and let me tell you 1800 watts of that thing into two 4 ohm loads was insanely loud. If your expecting the 9.0 to be that loud it will not be.