Genz Benz Streamliner Pt 7.....

[svtb15]

Im on tour right now with my Streamliner 900 and rental cabs.. Since these are fly dates.. In Europe the Streamliner is doing great. Just throw the red switch on the back and put the adpter plug oin the end and im ready.. My sound man that has been doing the bands sound for years paul "pappy" middleton does the Bonnie Raitt tours too.. The guy has ears of gold if you ever saw a Bonnie show.. And he LOVES the DI out of my Genz amp.. Just slammin good...

If any Genz fans are in Europe come on out...
I will be in Germany on Tuesday, Thursday in Switzerland in Basel, Friday Morzine France at the Morzine Harley Davidson Festival , Saturday at the castle Chateau De Goncourt Matignicourt, Champagne-Ardenne, France and next week Tuesday the 19th at Progresja
Warsaw, Poland .. If you happen to be there come and say hi.. It would be good to meet some of you...

 

[rodl2005]

Are You using the POST eq DI on yr STL 900 or going PRE eq???

Just wondering coz Some of te rooms we play are awful acoustically, so I have to go pre, but in a decent room, wondering what it's like going POST EQ??

 

[emor]

When you guys are finding a bad tube in the STM heads, are you seeing a tube that's totally blacked out, slightly dimmed out, burn smell, etc? Just what symptoms if any are you seeing?

I've had my STM-900 for about 8 weeks or so, no issues at all. And I bought 4 different popular variety 12AX7 tubes from a TBer a couple years back for my Neopak I never used. Just not big on opening up my amps and mucking around in there, unless I have to.

So I guess I'm set for tubes if one goes. The STM-900 3 tubes are all of the 12AX7 pre-tubes variety...aren't they?

I'm interested in the answer to this also.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

When you guys are finding a bad tube in the STM heads, are you seeing a tube that's totally blacked out, slightly dimmed out, burn smell, etc? Just what symptoms if any are you seeing?

I've had my STM-900 for about 8 weeks or so, no issues at all.

...The STM-900 3 tubes are all of the 12AX7 pre-tubes variety...aren't they?

There have only been a handful of tube problems reported here. I believe they've all been DOA or nasty distortion, and G-B has responded quickly in each case.

12AX7 family in all three positions.

 

[dave_bass5]

I know this can be quite an open question but i need some EQ help.

Ive done about 10 gigs with my STL600 and at least half of them have been with a fantastic tone. The rest have been ok, with a few really not enjoyable. The good ones have normally been gigs without walls, Marquees etc, hollow stages and rooms i really wouldn't have expected the head to work in.

Ive put my STL600 up for sale as i want something thats more consistent tone wise and im leaning towards using my F1 (i could always get a good tone from my SA450) full time or trading my STL600 for a Shuttle.

I'd like to keep the STL600 though but im either struggling with the EQ, or i just dont like the character of the head. Im hoping i can overcome this in the next couple of weeks.

Here's the thing. On certain gigs i find my P bass sounding a bit too "boxy" if that makes sense. Now i know its probably down to the cab (1212L) as much as the head but can anyone give me any tips on getting rid of this boxy tone with the STL600? what freqs normally cause this? I know most cabs sound differently so other than a general guide im not expecting much from non 1212L owners.
Im inclined to cut the lowest mids a bit and this gives quite a scooped tone and seems to work well at some venues. I do also cut the lows most of the time.

Cheers.

 

[sratas]

Hi Dave, when you write 1212L you mean Schroeder? It's curious, many guys here complain about some lack of midrange in the STM tone and try to compensate pairing the head with a mid-heavy cab. I have the feeling that you have the opposite problem! Usually a "boxy" tone comes from a bump in the midrange frequencies paired with a insufficient volume (I mean cubic volume, not loudness) of the cab. I found that type of a problem using Schroeder cabs (owned a 1212L too) that are very very mid focused sounding, maybe the heaviest in this domain, and this is the reason because they are so loud and cutting in dense mixes. Human hearing is just more sensible to midrange frequencies. This is also the reason that allow guitar players to cause ears bleed with a 15 watts tiny amp. Yes, within certain limits you can rule out some boxiness cutting the 200-400 Hz and "smiling" the eq curve with that cab but be aware...no Eq setting can drastically change the specific character imparted by that Scro. In fact, if you boost lows (think 40-80 Hz) the 1212L will struggle, the bass port will chuff and compress...and the STM is quite polite in the mids. If I were you, I would try the STM with other cabs before making decisions. ciao

I know this can be quite an open question but i need some EQ help.

Ive done about 10 gigs with my STL600 and at least half of them have been with a fantastic tone. The rest have been ok, with a few really not enjoyable. The good ones have normally been gigs without walls, Marquees etc, hollow stages and rooms i really wouldn't have expected the head to work in.

Ive put my STL600 up for sale as i want something thats more consistent tone wise and im leaning towards using my F1 (i could always get a good tone from my SA450) full time or trading my STL600 for a Shuttle.

I'd like to keep the STL600 though but im either struggling with the EQ, or i just dont like the character of the head. Im hoping i can overcome this in the next couple of weeks.

Here's the thing. On certain gigs i find my P bass sounding a bit too "boxy" if that makes sense. Now i know its probably down to the cab (1212L) as much as the head but can anyone give me any tips on getting rid of this boxy tone with the STL600? what freqs normally cause this? I know most cabs sound differently so other than a general guide im not expecting much from non 1212L owners.
Im inclined to cut the lowest mids a bit and this gives quite a scooped tone and seems to work well at some venues. I do also cut the lows most of the time.

Cheers.

 

[agedhorse]

Bad preamp tubes generally show no visible damage.

 

[45cmckay105]

i pulled the trigger for a streamliner 600, so i need to look for a suitable cab.
I stay in an apartment, so I cant use something too big and loud.
I don't drive too, so it must be portable (bring out for jamming using public transport)
there's not many stores bringing in bass brands in my country
this is what i roughly can think of
1) hartke hydrive 112
2) aguilar

I can comment on these (2) set-ups.

Paired with (2) Hartke HX112 cabs, I use the HF attenuator at the -6dB setting in the top cab and OFF in the bottom cab. Great attack (typical Hartke "bark" to my ears) with a decent amount of warmth. The mids from Hartke cabs are their own animal thanks to the aluminum cones. I would never call this stack particularly mid-heavy, but it is far from being bright and hi-fi. These cabs are rather shallow compared to the other 112's in my collection.

Paired with Aguilar DB112/DB112NT. This stack is by far the crystal clear hi-fi of the bunch. Which, with my 4 string Stingrays is preferred!! I had this same stack paired with a GenzBenz Shuttle 6.0 and was never very found of the sound. Was a bit harsh and thin. The mid's really shine with the SL600.

I am not an audiophile, so I apologize of my terminology is a bit off.

Long story short...for the $$$, you will NOT be upset pairing your SL600 with the HX112 cabs!!!

 

[dave_bass5]

Hi Dave, when you write 1212L you mean Schroeder? It's curious, many guys here complain about some lack of midrange in the STM tone and try to compensate pairing the head with a mid-heavy cab. I have the feeling that you have the opposite problem! Usually a "boxy" tone comes from a bump in the midrange frequencies paired with a insufficient volume (I mean cubic volume, not loudness) of the cab. I found that type of a problem using Schroeder cabs (owned a 1212L too) that are very very mid focused sounding, maybe the heaviest in this domain, and this is the reason because they are so loud and cutting in dense mixes. Human hearing is just more sensible to midrange frequencies. This is also the reason that allow guitar players to cause ears bleed with a 15 watts tiny amp. Yes, within certain limits you can rule out some boxiness cutting the 200-400 Hz and "smiling" the eq curve with that cab but be aware...no Eq setting can drastically change the specific character imparted by that Scro. In fact, if you boost lows (think 40-80 Hz) the 1212L will struggle, the bass port will chuff and compress...and the STM is quite polite in the mids. If I were you, I would try the STM with other cabs before making decisions. ciao

Thanks.
I understand all that, and its also my thinking.
I know my cab is very coloured (yes, its my Schroeder im talking about) and mid heavy but i feel my MB heads work better (as do a lot of people) and dont really give me this boxy tone, and in fact since i started using a BDDI in front of the MB head its even smoother, but this is something i dont want to do with the STL600.

Im not expecting the STL600 to sound like my MB head but it would be nice if i could get a smoother tone out of it. I know some people have experimented a lot with the Eq and im hoping there might be something im over looking.

Using another cab is out fo the question as i dont own anything other than a MAG combo.

 

[wateroftyne]

Dave - I appreciate you're really trying with this, but the problem is that the cab and the amp just don't match.

The Sansamp smooths things out because it's scooped, and the Schro is hump central.

People say the Streamliner is scooped, but I don't hear it myself. I find that there's lots going on with the mids. I can see how it would make the Schro sound boxy.

All I can suggest is generous use of that mid knob... roll it right off if you have to.

Good luck...

 

[steve_rolfeca]

Dave - I appreciate you're really trying with this, but the problem is that the cab and the amp just don't match.

The Sansamp smooths things out because it's scooped, and the Schro is hump central.

People say the Streamliner is scooped, but I don't hear it myself. I find that there's lots going on with the mids. I can see how it would make the Schro sound boxy.

All I can suggest is generous use of that mid knob... roll it right off if you have to.

Good luck...

To add to this, that boxy sound is comes from a fairly high-Q peak in the Schroeder's frequency response. In order to tune it out, you need a pretty tight, focused EQ.

IMO, the Streamliner's tone controls aren't surgical enough for that sort of work. They sound so musical at extreme settings, because the slopes are pretty broad.

If you don't want to switch to an amp with parametric mids when using the Schroeder, try a good outboard EQ. When this subject comes up, I can never resist plugging the Empress ParaEQ, partly because they're Canadian, and also because it's such a sweet-sounding, intuitive pedal.

 

[sratas]

Hi dave, I know the MB/Schroeder is a quite popular combo and I see why (I owned a SA450/104 HF stack). Tone is a matter of taste, and that's all. Maybe the Genz is not your target tone. Stick with what fits you best! I my personal opinion, I do not waste time with an amp or instrument whose basic tone I don't like at all. Modern equipment is very versatile and powerful in terms of flexibility, but there are so many alternative amps out there. ciao

Thanks.
I understand all that, and its also my thinking.
I know my cab is very coloured (yes, its my Schroeder im talking about) and mid heavy but i feel my MB heads work better (as do a lot of people) and dont really give me this boxy tone, and in fact since i started using a BDDI in front of the MB head its even smoother, but this is something i dont want to do with the STL600.

Im not expecting the STL600 to sound like my MB head but it would be nice if i could get a smoother tone out of it. I know some people have experimented a lot with the Eq and im hoping there might be something im over looking.

Using another cab is out fo the question as i dont own anything other than a MAG combo.

 

[dave_bass5]

Dave - I appreciate you're really trying with this, but the problem is that the cab and the amp just don't match.

The Sansamp smooths things out because it's scooped, and the Schro is hump central.

People say the Streamliner is scooped, but I don't hear it myself. I find that there's lots going on with the mids. I can see how it would make the Schro sound boxy.

All I can suggest is generous use of that mid knob... roll it right off if you have to.

Good luck...

Yeah, I do want to keep this head and realsie its the cab thats the problem.
If i just couldn't get a good tone of it at all i wouldn't be asking all this but i know the two are capable of producing some stunning tones, im just trying to figure out the EQ and what its capable of to get the best out of it at every gig.
I've used a heavily mid scooped EQ with this head and it has worked, so maybe the bad sounding venues would be bad with any head.
Ive done over 300 gigs with this cab so im used to it and used to working with it, but that was with a head that to my ears doesn't have a strong character like the STL600.

I had the amp all packed ready to sell but im going to give it yet one more weekend.

 

[dave_bass5]

To add to this, that boxy sound is comes from a fairly high-Q peak in the Schroeder's frequency response. In order to tune it out, you need a pretty tight, focused EQ.

IMO, the Streamliner's tone controls aren't surgical enough for that sort of work. They sound so musical at extreme settings, because the slopes are pretty broad.

If you don't want to switch to an amp with parametric mids when using the Schroeder, try a good outboard EQ. When this subject comes up, I can never resist plugging the Empress ParaEQ, partly because they're Canadian, and also because it's such a sweet-sounding, intuitive pedal.

Thanks again for the help.
I normally use my MB heads flat, other than a tweak on the filters. Maybe im just used to hearing my SA450/1212L rig and dont hear how good the STL600 is because its different.

One thing that strikes me is how good all the recordings have sounded with this head. Even when i haven't enjoyed the tone on the gig, listening back makes me feel like i should give it another chance.
Im trying to cut down on gear so wuold rather not hav eot add another pice of gear at this stage but maybe ill give the BDDI a go. I know it was frowned on when i brought it up before but maybe with its scooped tone it might help, it certainly did with my SA450. I dont use the drive feature and have never used it to get a tuby tone, its more like adding active EQ for me.


@sratas. very good advice. To be honest after 5 years of playing almost exclusively through MB heads i felt it was time for a change, and do still, thats why im considering a Shuttle now. As i till have my F1 i can afford to experiment with the security that i still have a head that gives me a tone im familiar with.

 

[mrekoj]

I can comment on these (2) set-ups.

Paired with (2) Hartke HX112 cabs, I use the HF attenuator at the -6dB setting in the top cab and OFF in the bottom cab. Great attack (typical Hartke "bark" to my ears) with a decent amount of warmth. The mids from Hartke cabs are their own animal thanks to the aluminum cones. I would never call this stack particularly mid-heavy, but it is far from being bright and hi-fi. These cabs are rather shallow compared to the other 112's in my collection.

Paired with Aguilar DB112/DB112NT. This stack is by far the crystal clear hi-fi of the bunch. Which, with my 4 string Stingrays is preferred!! I had this same stack paired with a GenzBenz Shuttle 6.0 and was never very found of the sound. Was a bit harsh and thin. The mid's really shine with the SL600.

I am not an audiophile, so I apologize of my terminology is a bit off.

Long story short...for the $$$, you will NOT be upset pairing your SL600 with the HX112 cabs!!!

I'm glad that someone has good review with the hartke cabs
I will give it a try when the head is here, thanks !

 

[agedhorse]

Dave, can you try the amp with a few different cabinets? Perhaps you might find something that sits better with you.

 

[dave_bass5]

Dave, can you try the amp with a few different cabinets? Perhaps you might find something that sits better with you.

Unfortunately not. I don't have any money to buy a new cab, nor the means of trying out the cabs i would be interested in.

I know the cab is the main problem but to be honest it works well with my band, just not always with this head. Ill keep trying though.

 

[hensonbass]

To add to this, that boxy sound is comes from a fairly high-Q peak in the Schroeder's frequency response. In order to tune it out, you need a pretty tight, focused EQ.

IMO, the Streamliner's tone controls aren't surgical enough for that sort of work. They sound so musical at extreme settings, because the slopes are pretty broad.

If you don't want to switch to an amp with parametric mids when using the Schroeder, try a good outboard EQ. When this subject comes up, I can never resist plugging the Empress ParaEQ, partly because they're Canadian, and also because it's such a sweet-sounding, intuitive pedal.

I also have been experimenting with running an Empress ParaEQ in the effects loop of my SL900 and getting some nice results.

 

[KJung]

Unfortunately not. I don't have any money to buy a new cab, nor the means of trying out the cabs i would be interested in.

I know the cab is the main problem but to be honest it works well with my band, just not always with this head. Ill keep trying though.

Hello! While I LOVE my Streamliner, the match-up of the 1212L and the F1/F500 is virtually perfect. I've yet to hear a head that sounds better with that particular cab. As you know, that cab is extremely voiced, but the yin yang of that voicing with the F1/F500 and its powerful EQ and inherent voicing really works well.

I think you've come to the right conclusion. If you want to stick with that cab, use your F1 and be happy! IMO!

That being said, I am totally enjoying the much more full and meaty bottom of the Streamliner900 compared to my F500 with my AE410 and my P Bass. I still prefer the 'punch and brightness and grind' I get with my J Basses and the F1/F500, but for a meaty, fat, full, forceful P Bass tone, the Streamliner matched with a relatively 'tight and bright' cab is really a dream!

 

[dave_bass5]

Hey, welcome back Ken.

You told me this when i was thinking about getting a STL600, i should have listened lol.

The thing is i do hear that meaty, fat full P bass tone from the STL600 and love it, its just that its difficult to get it consistently at all our venues. I know this is to be expected with any head, that's why i was originally asking about EQ settings, based on this cab only.

Im going to give it one more go (at least) but im also considering a Shuttle 6.0, and have put the feelers out for a F500. As good as the F1 is i know i would prefer the more SA450 EQ orientated F500, just for that slight 100hz boost i used to use with my old head.

Im not trying to replicate a MB head with a GB head, i do want a new tone so happy to stick with GB if i can get something i like but at the moment its hot and cold, and i would prefer something that hot all the time ;-)

Thanks again.