- Feb 16, 2008
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- John K Custom Basses
my take on mixing is this.
the singer is the most important (in the mix)
then the drums
then the bass
then everything else.
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Genz Streamliner 600/900 tone control primer
- Thread starter steve_rolfeca
- Start date
my take on mixing is this.
the singer is the most important (in the mix)
then the drums
then the bass
then everything else.
- Feb 16, 2008
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- John K Custom Basses
well nutdog's clip got me thinking, so i recorded my '72 jazz bass (with old roundwounds on it) into the SVT and the ST900 with the streamliner's eq set to approximate the SVT's tone.
here's the clip with the SVT first again( please excuse the clams!)
here's the clip with the SVT first again( please excuse the clams!)
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Pretty close in EQ. STM isn't as fat in this comparison, but, the mids are closer and I have to believe that's what you were going after. Thanks John for taking the time to do this stuff. Let's shoot for Thursday. I'll bring my Bergantino HT-322. Can't wait to hear it against your Whappo Jr..
- Feb 16, 2008
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sounds good to me.
good call. yeah, i really didn't spend any time trying to get them as close as possible and was basically concentrating on the mids which i think came pretty close. if i a/b'd them back and forth a couple of times i think i could actually get the GB pretty close to the ampeg, but in this case, i just played thru the ampeg and then added a little 600 on the benz.
- Feb 16, 2008
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- John K Custom Basses
from what i'm hearing (from JimmyM, and i believe him) i think the SVT7 is probably even closer to an SVT than the ST900 is, but i have to say, i actually really like the way the streamliner seems to add girth and punch to every note on the neck.
what's really funny to me is how after all these years, we're (or at least i am) still comparing alot of amps to the 'ol SVT, and i'm always finding that that old girl is still hard to beat.
- Feb 16, 2008
- 21,240
- 23,636
- Disclosures
- John K Custom Basses
- Feb 16, 2008
- 21,240
- 23,636
- Disclosures
- John K Custom Basses
bass at 10:00, mid selected to 600hz and set at 2:00, treble at 12:00, and that was just a quickie.
Great clips, exactly the kind of thing I've been waiting on!
My impression is that the ST is one hell of an amp, unbelievably tubelike and beautifully voiced.
I understand that not a lot of time was taken to try to exactly cop the SVT tone, but I'm guessing there is still something in the mids voicing of the ST that will never perfectly emulate an SVT (why should it, anyway?)
It's that something, a certain grunt or throatiness, that to me is the essential part of the 'Ampeg' sound, especially the SVT. The 7Pro doesn't nail the SVT tone either but it does have that grunt that says Ampeg to me. It's interesting that the ST mids could get sound closer with less bass on the second JohnK clip, it would be fun to tweak to see if you can dial back in some heft or bottom without masking those mids.
To me one of the wonders of the SVT is that precise balance of heft and tight bottom with all that mids character and the right amount of top end to make it all punch so crazily well.
The ST seems a little more balanced and slightly more polite, and as mentioned a bit wider. Incredible achievement, I'm more impressed than ever and understand where the love is coming from. I'm really curious as to how close you could get with a VT pedal in front; I imagine you'd have all the 3D tubiness and the Ampeg voiced mids as well?
My impression is that the ST is one hell of an amp, unbelievably tubelike and beautifully voiced.
I understand that not a lot of time was taken to try to exactly cop the SVT tone, but I'm guessing there is still something in the mids voicing of the ST that will never perfectly emulate an SVT (why should it, anyway?)
It's that something, a certain grunt or throatiness, that to me is the essential part of the 'Ampeg' sound, especially the SVT. The 7Pro doesn't nail the SVT tone either but it does have that grunt that says Ampeg to me. It's interesting that the ST mids could get sound closer with less bass on the second JohnK clip, it would be fun to tweak to see if you can dial back in some heft or bottom without masking those mids.
To me one of the wonders of the SVT is that precise balance of heft and tight bottom with all that mids character and the right amount of top end to make it all punch so crazily well.
The ST seems a little more balanced and slightly more polite, and as mentioned a bit wider. Incredible achievement, I'm more impressed than ever and understand where the love is coming from. I'm really curious as to how close you could get with a VT pedal in front; I imagine you'd have all the 3D tubiness and the Ampeg voiced mids as well?
It is definitely not just the settings because
I heard john k PLAY at his pad, and he is
A he'll of a player
I don't play rock,, he does, when I heard him play, it cemented in my mind why players like johnK ARE Rock players and I am not .
He told me he plays other styles as well, but I didn't have a chance to hear that.
It must be said I have always had a closed mind about rock bass UNTIL I heard John really nail it.
So streamliner svt blah blah. John plays great bass
Hi guys
In reference to "on the gig settings" I've only been able to play once live through this setup, at a loud wedding playing various covers from rock to pop to dance/house w/ effects. Rig was the 900 through an AE212 with my LEJ 4 string.
People have had bad experiences with this amp/cab combo, and I knew this before buying. I didn't enjoy my first set, I had the bass knob around 9, with the mids at heaps of different boost (600 and 2.5k) and cut (220 and 600) settings. I enjoyed the tone more with treble down to 9 or 10.
I liked the second set more when I put the bass back up to 10/11. I also stopped playing with the mids, just left them at about 2 (set to 600) It was a rather large bottom end, not as defined as what I'm used to (a GK 1001 RBII through the same cab or epifani UL1 410, with contour boosted high and low mids).
However, I traded definition for "feel", that is, the GK would seem to poke its nose through a bit better, but without a huge pillow down low. The 900 seems to provide a much bigger cushion in between the drums and guitars/keys, without being as clear. The guys in the band liked this, and it made me want to play more longer notes as opposed to more quick fills and trick shots. Interesting side-effect.
Due to the "upward spread of masking" and other psychoacoustic factors I seriously doubt that any set up could provide the pillow and the definition for every player. Certain individuals could say their rigs achieved this, but I doubt most of us would get the same results with their rigs. Make of this what you will.
In short, the AE212 with this head is not a great match if you like defined, clear bass notes with an authoritative but not totally dominant low/low-mid range.It sounds great on its own, but in a band context I missed some of what I was doing. It is workable if you just want to provide a supporting voice to your ensemble and sounded great when I dug in for some of the rock tunes. A bit more grit with a harder attack added to the definition, and the compression was much more noticeable then anything I've heard from my GK, in that the attack with the GB seemed to have more bloom and the GK a much faster attack.
Next time I play in a band (rehearsal tonight then gig in a very different venue on Sunday) I may have more to say. I'll try to remember that I was happier once I stopped fiddling knobs, but it is kinda tempting to do this
+1 The AE212 is NOT the cab to use the Streamliner with. It is one of my favorite cabs of all time, but it has a similar voicing to the STreamliner (big, wide, warm, smooth), and it is a bit too much of a good thing.
With the AE410, which has a lot of upper mid bite and a tighter low end, the Streamliner is simply stunning with minimal EQ.
Interestingly, minus the 'tubey' thing, I get a reasonably similar tone with my P Bass through my AE212 and Markbass F500 (somewhat similar to your GK) as I do with the STreamliner through the AE410. Mix and Match!
johnk_10 said:
This time I much prefer the STL. That nails vintage warm Jazz tones with mid poke that I like. Nice playing too!
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I played these again tonight. Worse match than I initially thought! In the rehearsal space I use I'm more aware of the nuances of my tone. I tried several of the settings that users have kindly posted in this thread and others but I don't think it is as good a match as I was hoping to make of it.
This is actually good news. It means extensive try-outs for HD series once it hits Australia, as well as the Baer line when they ship in. Also, if all else fails I can sell the STM and try markbass, aguilar, micro GK - what a great era we live in! Despite nostalgia for old gear, we have never had this much choice (including the more traditional stuff that is still being made).
That is a good example of two VERY good pieces of gear just not quite working together very well.
The new Berg HD 10's should sound good, since that is basically a re-launch of the HS line, tweaked for a little more upper mid presence, which should work GREAT with the STreamliner (if you can put up with a fullweight cab).
The HD12's, probably not so much, since they are based on the HT line, and will be somewhat wide and smooth, just like the AE212. However, who knows how the HD12's will end up being voiced. Again, heavy.
You probably saw that I put up some clips of the Streamliner with the Baer ML112 over on the review thread. That is a very nice combination. I bet the ML212 (when it is released) would be just about perfect for a large gig, relatively lightweight cab with the Streamliner. The bright but still paper cone/organic top end of the ML cabs REALLY works with the tubey top end (even when pushed to break up a touch) with the Streamliner!
I assume the AE212 and your GK totally kill though! The AE212 and the Markbass F500 is magic also.
