Got fired from my church gig...

[MNAirHead]

Convert to Judaism, we always have room for more.

Don't we relly have to be born into the tradition?

 

[pica]

Don't we relly have to be born into the tradition?

Of course not, people convert all the time.

 

[willgroove2]

Brad..

Are you open to a clear learning discussion of your situation? The concern is replies that haven't agreed with your exact position have received no discussion or clarification.

I spend time on the Management and Sound forums to learn and self-critique.

It may be possible the wounds are a little fresh and we should be giving it time.

====

IF you're up to helping us all learn...

IN managements words, please explain why your were terminated... (educated guessing is fair)

Looking to learn.

Tim

======

Consideration Thought --- chruch musicians are connected. This is one of the genres it makes total sense to demonstrate the utmost on compassion, PR and mend bridges/fences.

Sorry but I have read your responses to the thread and I really don't get where your coming from,you seem to want to read something into what Brad said. He never said anything about IEM but you keep bringing it up and talking about having a "clear learning discussion of your situation" when he has moved on from the situation is weird.Sounds like you are a therapist or are in therapy yourself but this kind of thing happens all the time on all types of gig's

 

[RustyAxe]

Are you a Catholic Priest?

I'm done with you. It's like wrestling with a pig ... ya both get dirty, but the pig LIKES it.

 

[Tony-bobs]

WOW, that's all I have to say. Brad, that sucks man, childish politics in an adult situation can drain everything out of you, especially when this happens at a church, where people are supposed to love each other and have compassion. People at the church I attend were complaining about the "pay" that our choir leader gets. The money barely covers her gas and time driving back and forth from another town. the last WL we had, volunteer, left for a paying position closer to her house and family, and when our current WL is on vacation, worship goes to crap but no one can put 2 and 2 together...sad times.

 

[MNAirHead]

Sorry but I have read your responses to the thread and I really don't get where your coming from,you seem to want to read something into what Brad said. He never said anything about IEM but you keep bringing it up and talking about having a "clear learning discussion of your situation" when he has moved on from the situation is weird.Sounds like you are a therapist or are in therapy yourself but this kind of thing happens all the time on all types of gig's

My apologies as the Good Friday replies were 300 wpm between soundchecks etc.. In hindsight I should have held discussion until thre were a few writing hours.

=====

Let's hold for Brad to reply.

Not reading anything into the thread.. asking about other side... I did not read that this is a rant thread...

My specific interest in this is learning where/how/why this stuff goes wrong.

I do tons and tons of church type gigs in most of the varients.. see tons of nutty stuff.. tons of things that are 1/2 evident etc.

I'll save the rest until we hear from Brad.

This thread can help someone else.

 

[bradjonesbass]

You are very lucky then.

I have yet to find such a place where they don't have a problem with the fact that I play rock music, hang out in bars with serious club bikers, and drink beer and bourbon, with no intention of stopping any of that. When I do, I'll be there every Sunday. But not in their choir or their church band. Just sitting there, listening, is all I care do to anymore. I don't do politics very well.

Cherie

My worship pastor refers to me playing clubs as my "bar ministry" and they have a "personal convictions" policy on alcohol as long as it is not to excess...

 

[capnsandwich]

My worship pastor refers to me playing clubs as my "bar ministry" and they have a "personal convictions" policy on alcohol as long as it is not to excess...

Wow man, where do you go to church? Sounds like a very welcoming place for guys like me. I used to live in Ft. Wayne, up on Dupont Rd., and used to go to Harvest Fellowship in Grabill with my family. I live in Columbus, Oh. now.

 

[gmarcus]

You see this is what happen when people loose the spirit. I was gone at the $200K+ sound system....at church. That is so self indulgent. Step out of the way and let the spirit play you.

By the way are there any churches in Cambridge MA looking for a bass player? I just haven't been able to hook up since I moved back here last summer. I'm looking for a spirit filled place with nice people with kids. The music doesn't have to be great, just meaningful.

 

[bradjonesbass]

Wow man, where do you go to church? Sounds like a very welcoming place for guys like me. I used to live in Ft. Wayne, up on Dupont Rd., and used to go to Harvest Fellowship in Grabill with my family. I live in Columbus, Oh. now.

Fellowship Missionary - www.fmcfw.org - I think it's one of our other bass players in the worship team picture (we have 4 who are all really good).

 

[BigMac5]

I'm done with you. It's like wrestling with a pig ... ya both get dirty, but the pig LIKES it.

I Win

 

[BigMac5]

Although I'm not a Christian, I am going to resist the temptation to respond to this post.

I know.

 

[Deluge Of Sound]

You know, I just pounded my way through twelve pages of this thread...

And I can't wrap my head around the idea of a band playing at a church. At all. Can someone elucidate me? I mean, I was a +/-3-days-a-year Church goer for a while when I was younger, and this is just alien to me. I mean, there was a pipe organ, and a choir, but a band?
With amplification?
And a $200k soundsystem?!
Damnninja!

I would commit a lesser sin to play in my old church, by the way... one huge stone room, reverb for years.

 

[capnsandwich]

You know, I just pounded my way through twelve pages of this thread...

And I can't wrap my head around the idea of a band playing at a church. At all. Can someone elucidate me? I mean, I was a +/-3-days-a-year Church goer for a while when I was younger, and this is just alien to me. I mean, there was a pipe organ, and a choir, but a band?
With amplification?
And a $200k soundsystem?!
Damnninja!

I would commit a lesser sin to play in my old church, by the way... one huge stone room, reverb for years.

Every church is different and churches have sure changed in the years that you've been missing it. A Catholic church is waaaay different than an inner city Apostolic church, especially the way they play music. It's just the way it is. I'm happy to be in a church that gives me the freedom to be me and appreciates my talent, well certain people appreciate it. Some people still think I play guitar.

 

[Deluge Of Sound]

My old church was Episcopal, but close enough.

I'm going to assume that church-with-band is more of a mega-church phenomenon?

EDIT: Found a picture of the pipe organ.

 

[DrSmaggs]

Lesson one. Never think for yourself. No matter how logical or accurate your statements or ideas are, they will always get shot down in these situations. This is why I never do gigs like that.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Brad..

Are you open to a clear learning discussion of your situation? The concern is replies that haven't agreed with your exact position have received no discussion or clarification.

Specifically?

You're correct that I haven't really addressed the IEM fundraising... because as i said, I'm baffled as to where that came from.

What else?

I spend time on the Management and Sound forums to learn and self-critique.

It may be possible the wounds are a little fresh and we should be giving it time.

I'm not wounded... I am tired of you saying that. It got old a while ago.

====

IF you're up to helping us all learn...

IN managements words, please explain why your were terminated... (educated guessing is fair)

Looking to learn.

Tim

======

I - DON'T- KNOW. I am not sure how much clearer I can make that. I don't know if they have someone else they want to bring in... no one told me that as of yet. I don't know why the MM lied about why I brought the amp in. I don't know why they for whatever reason continued to have monitor problems for several months. I don't know why they thought my having notes for new music was a negative. I don't know why the MM was as trifling as he was, period.

I think I've already expressed all of this in this thread.

If I had to guess... guessing is something I'd rather not do. I'd rather know than waste time guessing.

Consideration Thought --- chruch musicians are connected. This is one of the genres it makes total sense to demonstrate the utmost on compassion, PR and mend bridges/fences.

Not getting your point here. More than half of this group are musicians I work with elsewhere. We get along fine. They seemed genuinely excited about having me come on board. They seem equally as bothered by what went down... more bothered than I am. i told them not to worry about me or the situation and just do what they do. No point burning a bridge over me.

It should've been relatively easy with a little effort on some parts. It wasn't and I did what I had to do in spite of that.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Sorry but I have read your responses to the thread and I really don't get where your coming from,you seem to want to read something into what Brad said. He never said anything about IEM but you keep bringing it up and talking about having a "clear learning discussion of your situation" when he has moved on from the situation is weird.Sounds like you are a therapist or are in therapy yourself but this kind of thing happens all the time on all types of gig's

This.

 

[Brad Johnson]

You sure we weren't working for the same guy?LOL

One Christmas it was decided to do the Hallelujah chorus from Quincy Jones soulful messiah,this a really involved arrangement but the choir director had actually gotten the score which had a written electric bass part! this was with no warning,no cd's or mp3's sent in advance nothing myself and the guitar player walked in cold to rehearsal. The Director told me there were charts and gave me one which was about 10 pages long.So I started taping them together and the MD makes the comment that he already knows the arrangement and we would have to have a extra rehearsal for this tune and for the other Christmas stuff on friday night.The guitar player and I Immediately said that that wouldn't work for us because we had gig's ( and the MD knew that)The pastor who had listening in told us that we might have to sacrifice our gig's to which we both told him this wasn't possible as we were both leaders on our gig's.
The MD went into this speech about how ministry was more important than money and we needed to make a choice.At this point I realized this was a set up and asked if we could run thru the Messiah at our regular musicians rehearsal right after choir rehearsal. At this point I had had a chance to look down the chart and hear the sections as they were taught to the choir.So the challenge became if we could play it correctly and we ran the tune,the first time there was a train-wreck on the first ending but the second time I played the song all the way thru correctly.This drove the MD nut's because he made several mistakes so he said we didn't play it right,I disagreed and pointed to the chart ,he told me"that doesn't mean anything"(Non reader).so we listened to the track and he had me play along by myself and still said I wasn't right at this point the pastor said "He played it right" and from what I have been told that was what got me on this guy's bad side,so silly and childish

Sounds about right. Seperated at birth?


When I perform, I really do put ego aside. I strive to do the BASF thing (old guy remembering an old ad campaign)... I don't make the performance, I want to make the performance better. I don't need a solo, I don't care if the basswork is simple or complicated, I have fun putting out a great band performance. It ain't about me.

I have an old DVD of Chake Khan during the "What 'Cha Gonna Do For Me" period and Anthony Jackson's performance kind of sums up my take on this. He's sitting there burning and for the entire show you only saw the top of his afro. Wasn't there for the camera time. Neither am I.

 

[Brad Johnson]

You know, I just pounded my way through twelve pages of this thread...

And I can't wrap my head around the idea of a band playing at a church. At all. Can someone elucidate me? I mean, I was a +/-3-days-a-year Church goer for a while when I was younger, and this is just alien to me. I mean, there was a pipe organ, and a choir, but a band?
With amplification?
And a $200k soundsystem?!
Damnninja!

I would commit a lesser sin to play in my old church, by the way... one huge stone room, reverb for years.

This wasn't a mega church by any means. There are big local churchs with full TV production facilities and multiple campuses for services. This was a just under 1,000 seater, so not huge but not Mayberry Methodist either*.

They didn't need anywhere near the system they bought and to have it not be operated correctly just adds insult to injury.

*I came up in a very small rural Methodist church.